FIL in prison for child s. abuse, please advise!

[Overreactingmom13]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here after lurking for years. I desperately need the opinion of strangers who are not emotionally involved in my current situation and might have a clearer head.

TW child sexual abuse

My FIL went to prison yesterday for molesting one of his granddaughters when she was about 12. Years long battle in court, the girl moved to a different city to live with her older sister because 90% of their family thinks she is lying.

FIL is a widow now, has 3 sons, they are a typical wolf pack, protecting each other. Oldest son (the molested girl’s father) believes FIL. Middle son also believes him. DH is the youngest, also believes him.

DH and his brothers grew up emotionally abused, groomed and conditioned to think that dirty sex jokes at the family dinner table with minors around is normal. Their opinion is that FIL doesn’t realise his jokes are crossing the line but he is harmless.

1 day before we were told he’s going to prison (good timing hmm?) we were talking to him on Facetime while our 2 year old DD was eating a banana, let’s be real she was eating it messy, pushing it in her mouth, like any innocent 2 year old. Here comes FIL with one of infamous jokes, telling DD “yes keep practicing, you’ll have to do it soon enough”. In my shock I immediately hung up without saying a word, like a coward. I’m beating myself up still…
I told DH to talk to him about it, he promised he will. Yeah sure. Next day the news come that he’s going to prison, his nasty joke forgotten cause all 3 of his sons are panicking, whats going to happen to their father.

DH is extremely sensitive and naive, completely under the influence of his father and he said to me “please let me believe he is innocent” also that “you are overreacting what he said to DD, it was just a stupid joke”. Growing up in that house with FIL will do that to you, I guess.

I know I’m not overreacting.
What I need to figure out is how to get on the same page as him. He needs to be able smell predators, he can’t be blind when he has a DD.
At the same time I somehow has to consider his feelings, this is a major trauma even to an adult to have their parent in prison for something like this.

I am not sure you can state they were neglected DC because parents worked alot. A typically neglected DC isnt looked after by grandparents and spending holiday with them. Whats happened here is one grandparent has abused a grandchild under there care. Most abusers of kids are family members. Its not the fault of the parents for leaving there DC in what they believed to be trusted grandparents, I think you need to really think about what your writing as even you are somehow suggesting its the parents fault

That comment made me feel physically sick. It was absolutely fucking disgusting to read.

And I am a stranger.

The reaction of your husband, hearing it said about his own daughter, by a man he knows has been accused of and convicted of sexually abusing a child, is terrifying.

My reaction was more extreme than that of your husband about his own daughter.

You sound quite callous about the abused niece, your husband has been raised in a dysfunctional environment for sure, but it's almost like you see that abuse as worse than what happened to her.

That could have been your daughter remember, if circumstances had been different.

@bigbird50

I am shocked you have maintained contact with a man who was a suspected paedophile. You have been doing facetime and allowing your DD to see this man. What were you planning to do if he wanted to come and visit? Or if you were going to go home for a visit? I just cant believe you have kept in touch and I say 'you' as the mother.This man is not your father. Your DH needs to seek support about his own issues but you I am shocked at. My DD wouldn't be around any man who was an accused offender who was then convicted, The 90% of the family should feel ashamed of themselves...including yourself

All of this.

You write as though one day you woke up & found out your FIL had been convicted of sexual assault on a child out of the blue.

But that didn't happen. You and all the family have had a long time to process this, step by step. While the final outcome has only been determined, you must have been aware of the accusations, the evidence, the progression of the court case.

Your reaction to me, is shocking. You sound barely moved by the plight of your DN.

i'm watching every single man that comes into contact with my DD, including my own father. no male has ever been alone with her even for a minute. i chose nursery for her knowing they had all female staff.

This is so weird.

Most people are happy for their DC to be alone with some males, eg DGF. Do you mean you were always like this or since the allegations came to light against FIL?

Your reaction to me, is shocking. You sound barely moved by the plight of your DN.

This. You don't know her well, it seems, but you sound almost indifferent about what she must have been through. If that POS can talk about a two year old like he did, how do you suppose he would act around your niece in the circumstances you describe? That poor girl.

Hi OP, I've read all your posts but not all the replies.
This sounds like a very upsetting situation, and it won't be easy for DH to untangle himself from the toxic family dynamics, but it's promising that he wants to do therapy. Encourage him to choose his therapist carefully, hopefully he will get a good one and find it helpful.
Others may well have said this already but I strongly recommend two books by Susan Forward: "Toxic Parents" for DH to read and "Toxic In-laws" for you.

okay i'm feeling a bit of a judgey vibe here, so it might be best if i take a step back for now.
as i said i truly appreciate all comments on this horrific subject, thank you all for taking the time to reply.
i'm trying navigate my way through this shiit show of a family, but right now my head is a bit full.

@AnotherEmma

Hi OP, I've read all your posts but not all the replies. This sounds like a very upsetting situation, and it won't be easy for DH to untangle himself from the toxic family dynamics, but it's promising that he wants to do therapy. Encourage him to choose his therapist carefully, hopefully he will get a good one and find it helpful. Others may well have said this already but I strongly recommend two books by Susan Forward: "Toxic Parents" for DH to read and "Toxic In-laws" for you.

thank you for the recommendation, i'm going to have a look at those books

Of course you're getting a judgey vibe OP... you're in a pretty serious situation here, it's not some little problem.

You and all the family have had a long time to process this, step by step. While the final outcome has only been determined, you must have been aware of the accusations, the evidence, the progression of the court case

In fairness we don't know if OP/her DH knew anything of this before the conviction; remember the family are "thousands of miles away", and it's possible they weren't told

Of course, if they did know the situation's very different ...

I took from OP's posts that they did know:

DH whole family knew about the accusations against FIL

Perhaps she meant that the whole family bar DH knew?

But her posts don't read like that. There isn't a sense of shock over the actual conviction.

Perhaps she meant that the whole family bar DH knew?

Possibly, yes - or maybe DH knew too but didn't tell OP because he didn't wish to believe it (and clearly still doesn't)?

For me, the real horror would be if OP was aware of all this and chose to marry and have DCs with him anyway, but frankly it just doesn't compute

Make a note of his vile comment and start to keep a diary of this type of thing. When he gets out of prison in very little time (on good behaviour), you’ll need it all written down

I remember when a family member's daughter was less than a year old and was sitting on her granddad's lap. There was a dishcloth on the table and the baby got it and wiped the table aimlessly with it as little kids do. Her grandad said "oh good to see you know your place already" to her. The whole room fell silent - it just wasn't funny at all especially we are all girls in our family. Literally no men born since about 1947.
But that is absolutely nothing compared to what this monster said.
Op you have got a job on your hands and l wish you luck and strength to help your dh realise.

Your DH doesn't believe his poor niece, but you seem kind of ok with this? I mean, you haven't gone NC with your FIL either have you?

The two of you have cosy facetime chats, with your daughter sat there, with a man who you both know full well is a convicted sex offender.

It's not just your husbands boundaries that are off here. If my husband insisted on maintaining contact with a child sexual abuser there is no way on earth that I would participate in that contact, and even less chance that I would involve my child.

What the fuck have you been thinking, facilitating contact with this man during the YEARS that this has been going on?

It doesn't matter that the contact is online rather than in person. It should never have happened in the first place.

Go NC permanently with fil. Insist its non negotiable and enable DP to get therapy. DC being protected from abuse, including s abuse is #1. Just move ahead but make DD your priority. Fil is clearly a low life manipulating pig.

Also, assuming he's gone to prison in the UK, a sentence of 2.5 years means that he will be out in 15 mths.

Are you going to pick up where you left off, and facetime him when he gets out with your 3.5yr old sat there?

** Frankly, the fact that your dh is denying sexual abuse that has been proved in court means that he is is supporting his Father and therefore, complicit in the abuse.

If I'm honest I am shocked you are so casual about allowing FiL visual access to your child.**

^I couldn’t stay married to someone like your DH OP.

He always asks her if he can bathe her or change her nappies. Never walks around naked. He knows this.

This stood out for me. My DH would never have felt the need to ask for permission to bathe DD or change her nappies. What exactly does he know? What does he feel the risk is?

Or, have you put these rules in place because you sense a risk? In which case, you know what you need to do to protect your child.

The FIL likely had an order to no be around any children before he went to prison and will likely have one when he gets out.

So your DD doesn't have to be around him on facetime or in person.

If the conviction is outside the UK, we don't know what orders may or may not be in place. Other countries may not have the same rules regarding sexual offenders.

But it should be irrelevant. The OP should have cut contact with FIL and prevented him from seeing her daughter from the start.

He's not her dad, and she doesn't owe him anything. She could have left her DH to continue his relationship with his dad while not participating in it herself. With living abroad and using Facetime it would have been easy - she could have just taken herself and her DD into another room during any calls.

The fact that she continued HER relationship with the FIL while he was on trial for child sexual abuse shows that it's not just her DH who has problems with boundaries. She needs counselling and good advice as much as he does.

@sashh

When you have had a non standard childhood you don't know what is normal.

You need to unpick this with your DH. A grown man say a toddler eating a banana and their brain went to a sex act.

This man then thought it was OK to verbalise this to the child and parents.

It may have been normal in his life but it is not normal behavour.

Add to that, the adult making the suggestion, has sexually abused a child, your child's cousin.

I'm so sorry OP but your FIL has groomed his sons and he is attempting to groom your little girl.

I'm glad you recognise your DH's grooming from his father, that is a good place to start because you, as in you and dh need to unpick that to protect your little girl.

I'm sure your DH would be heartbroken to think he is a danger to her, but sadly he is. I'm not saying he would touch her, I'm saying he needs to learn what are red flags for most people that he doesn't see.

You would think that actually being convicted and imprisoned for CSA would be fairly obviously not 'normal', regardless of 'grooming'

@CouldIhaveaword

He always asks her if he can bathe her or change her nappies. Never walks around naked. He knows this.

This stood out for me. My DH would never have felt the need to ask for permission to bathe DD or change her nappies. What exactly does he know? What does he feel the risk is?

Yes, this is a bit odd and somewhat concerning. DH asked for help in changing DDs first few nappies as he wasn’t sure exactly what went where etc but after that he had no issues around nudity for either of them.