FIL in prison for child s. abuse, please advise!

[Overreactingmom13]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here after lurking for years. I desperately need the opinion of strangers who are not emotionally involved in my current situation and might have a clearer head.

TW child sexual abuse

My FIL went to prison yesterday for molesting one of his granddaughters when she was about 12. Years long battle in court, the girl moved to a different city to live with her older sister because 90% of their family thinks she is lying.

FIL is a widow now, has 3 sons, they are a typical wolf pack, protecting each other. Oldest son (the molested girl’s father) believes FIL. Middle son also believes him. DH is the youngest, also believes him.

DH and his brothers grew up emotionally abused, groomed and conditioned to think that dirty sex jokes at the family dinner table with minors around is normal. Their opinion is that FIL doesn’t realise his jokes are crossing the line but he is harmless.

1 day before we were told he’s going to prison (good timing hmm?) we were talking to him on Facetime while our 2 year old DD was eating a banana, let’s be real she was eating it messy, pushing it in her mouth, like any innocent 2 year old. Here comes FIL with one of infamous jokes, telling DD “yes keep practicing, you’ll have to do it soon enough”. In my shock I immediately hung up without saying a word, like a coward. I’m beating myself up still…
I told DH to talk to him about it, he promised he will. Yeah sure. Next day the news come that he’s going to prison, his nasty joke forgotten cause all 3 of his sons are panicking, whats going to happen to their father.

DH is extremely sensitive and naive, completely under the influence of his father and he said to me “please let me believe he is innocent” also that “you are overreacting what he said to DD, it was just a stupid joke”. Growing up in that house with FIL will do that to you, I guess.

I know I’m not overreacting.
What I need to figure out is how to get on the same page as him. He needs to be able smell predators, he can’t be blind when he has a DD.
At the same time I somehow has to consider his feelings, this is a major trauma even to an adult to have their parent in prison for something like this.

Honestly? In your position I'd be getting yourself AND your dd as far the hell away from these people as possible!

Fuck the legalities I'd be doing a disappearing act!

It goes without saying that she should never have contact with FIL, supervised or unsupervised.

At the very very least!

I could not stay with your husband I just couldn't trust him not just to not safeguard your dd but to not make her available to a predator - not just your fil.

I wouldn't have even had the FaceTime session

at this point. It's come out of the blue to him.

Sorry but no it hasn't! It's taken years to get to the point he's in prison he's had all that time to get a grip and accept that his father is a creepy abuser

I don't believe even with therapy that your dds father and uncles will truly change their minds on this or have any understanding of just what a threat their father is. I'd also view them as potential threats too.

The ONLY away I would remain with a man like your husband is if he did a complete turnabout over fil and went nc with all these men and fully supported you in having nothing to do with them and your dd having nothing to do with them and even then I'd be SO watchful how he was with dd which is a dreadful and terrifying position to be in

I'd be looking at emigrating, so that I could get as far from that family as possible.

Yep

At the very least move jurisdictions within the uk if that's where you live. Makes it much harder for husband to get unsupervised access and provide it to fil.

A 2.5 year sentence suggests to me what he did was pretty horrific possibly violent because as a pp said many sex offenders even if convicted in uk tend to get Fucking suspended sentences!

Can you clarify the situation with the countries? You needn't say which country but eg fil is in country A you're in country b etc?

I would be putting my foot down re no contact with husbands brother an hour away. I would not trust these men!

I would insist on his getting that therapy he has suggested if I were you

Your comment re he was physically abusive to his sons makes it more likely imo that he was violent to the niece too

I think you'd be wise to learn all you can regarding custody and safeguarding laws where you live now

Also, he will only have been prosecuted for what they were sure they could nail him for - cases like these, there’s often 100s of incidents

I think you really need to question wether or not you truly trust your DH around to safeguard your child. Going off of what you've said, I think the answer is no. Nobody believes that poor girl, not even her own father which is honestly disgusting. He should be her biggest champion, not her enemy.
You need to get your daughter far far away from that family.

The husband totally is a victim and anyone on this thread who can't see that has no idea about grooming.

Just from the OP's short posts we have learned he has been sexually abused himself - the exposure to his father having sex with the intentional leaving the door open, the continual inappropriate sexual talk from a young age.

And this is all the OP mentions. She probably knows more, and likely there is far far more that her DH hasn't even spoken about or realised was abuse.

The PP who said he sounds like a child saying 'don't let this be my Dad' is spot on. Given he has spoken about therapy, take him up on it and get started ASAP. It may however open the floodgates and be very traumatic for him to realise just how abnormal and abusive his childhood actually was.

You can't be with him.

I'm sorry. He's unsafe and what he has done to his niece is disgusting.

@Overreactingmom13

Thank you all for messaging, I'm still reading through them.

One thing I forgot to mention and it might be important is that DH and me we've been living in a different country for 12 years, and haven't been visiting for quite a few years now. Facetime calls is all we have since Covid started and our DD was born. FIL never met DD in person.

He got a 2.5 years prison sentence, so he is out of our life for a while.

Before Covid we went back to our country once a year to visit family, so there's no personal interaction with any of those people.

I feel truly awful for what DH is going through right now, FIL is a master manipulator, and an abuser. I know he beat them when they were kids. I know DH accidentally saw his parents having sex once when he was a kid. They left their bedroom door wide open. Who does that??

I look at DH as a victim here, I can only imagine what growing up under the influence of FIL can do to your brain. His whole family lives in another country but one of his brothers live here, about an hour drive from us.

I trust DH, I know he would never hurt DD and when it comes to her, his boundaries are clear. He never lets her spend alone time with anyone other than the two of us. He always asks her if he can bathe her or change her nappies. Never walks around naked. He knows this.

But he is naive and I agree that he might now recognise the red flags in others.

He is open to therapy, several times he suggested himself. Looks like I will have to encourage him more to take that step.

DH and me, away from our family in a different country, we are a team here. There's a reason why he dropped out of college and left his family and moved across the world. I'm sure he knows his father is a bad influence, and I think he is too shocked/traumatised to accent that FIL is an actual monster.

Your DH is not the only one being naive here. You are too.

@grapewine

There is no way I could or would stay with someone who is in denial about their father being a predator. I'm sorry, but I just couldn't. Your husband doesn't believe his niece, would he believe his daughter? The whole family dynamic is fucked up, and your FIL is a gross, vile person. Good on you for hanging up. Disgusting.

Sorry, but I have zero tolerance for (sexual) abusers and their apologists.

While I completely agree OP can only leave her DH if she is confident she can continue to protect her daughter because her idiot husband won’t

You do realise that there are more paedophiles out there, and that FIL isn't the only one, right?

You BOTH need to sort out your boundaries. You with putting DD on a facetime with a suspected paedophile, and your DH totally dismissing sexual remarks towards a toddler. Oh, and for fence sitting throughout a "years long court battle" and staying in touch with FIL all along. It's only because a court convicted him, when the proof must be beyond reasonable doubt that you are being forced to accept that he is in fact, a paedophile.

Predators seek out the children with parents exactly like you two. The ones who believe an adult over a child. The ones who continue to have a relationship with a paedophile and their supporters and expose their children to them regardless. Ones who dismiss and excuse sexualised talk in front of children but do little more than tut disapprovingly about it.

You are exactly the kind of people paedophiles gravitate to so I'd recommend that both of you contact some charities who can point you in the direction of specialist counselling or awareness training or whatever. Because both of you could use it I'm afraid.

My son used to work in the prison service with sex offenders, one of the common characteristics of all of them is that they are extremely manipulative. Taking a generous view your DH has had a shock that his father has been found guilty and imprisoned, and he has been manipulated all his life by his man.
But now he has a DD, his entire loyalty must be to her his whole being must be about her protection. Your DH has learned no boundaries, he is unable to see disgusting abusive innapropriate behaviour. He needs to get help to stop making excuses and to truly understand why no one, not a single person in their right mind would say what your FIL said to a little girl. He needs to understand that your niece is a victim who may have very well have been damaged for the rest of her life, He is a victim who has been damaged - he needs to understand that so he can understand how dangerous his father is.
He will need a lot of help, a lot. And If he can't recover from his damage so that he can see what is and isn't sexually abusive, both in actions and sexualised speech. Then I would seriously consider leaving him. It is very sad, but you cannot let your DD ever be subjected to this kind of talk, or these attitudes from her father and uncles, or to grow up hearing your niece being victim blamed.

And obviously it goes without saying you never let the repulsive excuse for a human being that is your FIL, ever have any contact whatsoever with your daughter.

What an awful situation, I am so sorry for your family.

You've got to tackle this one OP if not for your poor niece then for your own daughter. What if you died OP? What if he brought her back to see his father. He's willing to serve up his own niece to his pedophile father. I think you need him to see what he's doing and it's going to take professional intervention.

Your poor niece, abused by her grandfather and her own father disbelieves her.

Surely the comment your FIL made to your daughter shows how awful he is and his lack of boundaries. If it were me, my child would not be seeing the grandfather ever again and he'd be warned if there were any further inappropriate comments made, all contact would cease.

My dh grew up in a similar family and my FIL, whilst not sexually abusive, most certainly was mentally, physically and emotionally abusive. I have been protecting my dc against him and his abusive ways for years and been made out to be the enemy by my dh's family, and to some extent my dh because I don't pander to the whims of this man. I have been so angry at times at him and the rest of dh's family trying to convince me I've got him wrong, but the problem is that they have been conditioned to see these abusive ways as normal. I have repeatedly been told I'm overreacting to things this man has said and been told that his difficult/unpleasant/abusiveness is his way of showing he cares. It's basically all nonsense they've told themselves to convince themselves he actually does care about them. Whereas for me, all I see is an abusive man who doesn't deserve these people pandering to him.

Your dh is similar op. He's been abused by this man all his life and can't face the truth even though deep down he knows it's all true. He needs counselling but that's easier said than done. I've been with my dh for 17 years and I've yet to convince him to see a counsellor.

@MaChienEstUnDick

I would pack my daughter up and leave. I don't say that lightly. She is surrounded by men who have very, very skewed boundaries including your DH. I think you need to leave. I'm so sorry OP.

I agree, your DH had been bought up in a sexually toxic environment, so much so that he cannot see that his father’s attempt to sexualise a toddler eating a banana is wrong. In your position I would not want my daughter around any of this family.

Even if your FIL never gets within 500 miles of your DD I’d worry about your husband’s ability to protect her from others who might harm her. If someone else is telling her the sort of ‘jokes’ he’s accepted from FIL, will he see it as bad or will he process it as “well that’s what Dad used to do so I have to believe it’s fine?”

I trust DH, I know he would never hurt DD and when it comes to her, his boundaries are clear

They're not though, are they? After all he minimised the appalling banana reference and just wants to "believe he's innocent"

It's fortunate that most of this filth is in another country, but less so that one of the most damaged members is right there with you and your lovely DD - and sorry OP, but it's not a risk I'd be prepared to take

There are two particular Issues here. The first is your husband’s inability to see his father as guilty. From an outside perspective it’s easy to judge someone for that, but I imagine if you grow up with a family member and it turns out that they weren’t the person you thought they were, it must be incredibly hard to come to terms with. I’m not defending your DH, but feelings aren’t always black and white in this regard. He needs to come to terms with what’s happened in his own time and his own way.

The second issue however relates to the first in that, while your DH is refusing to accept that his father is a despicable human being, your own thinking has become incompatible. Because as someone on the outside, you’re now in the position where you refuse to want anything to deal with him. And while your feelings on the matter aren’t compatible, it’s potentially impossible to reach a compromise.

Your DH is free to think what he wants. But his thoughts have consequences, and personally if my partner refused to accept who his father was, then we would no longer be compatible as a couple. I wouldn’t give ultimatums, because ultimatums can’t change how someone thinks. But I would say that as your thoughts are so far apart on the matter, the relationship is no longer tennable, and I couldn’t see how your DD could have anything other than supervised access.

And I would leave it at that. If he then decided to seek therapy to come to terms with the situation then that would be for him to pursue, and for him to begin to make things right in terms of his relationship with his daughter.

@MrsWooster

I don’t know what to advise-wiser heads will be along, I hope. Hold on to the CERTAINTY that you are right and DH is wrong. Is there a way you can be in contact with your niece to reassure her that she is believed?

Absolutely this. You are right. I cant what he said. EVEN without history, that's disgraceful. You are right. Your husband is in denial.

@BitcherOfBlakiven

Yes there will be restrictions in place when he gets out.

Social Services will also be heavily involved upon his release to ensure that your child’s parents can protect her. And in these cases, they play a huge role in family court should OP split with her partner.

i wonder if how this would work between the uk and and eu country. i would want to know what restrictions would be in place but we are in the uk and FIL is not.

again, thank you everyone for your comments. they've been truly helpful. the harsh ones were especially eye opening.

i'm going to speak to DH about him/us going to therapy. there's a lot to unpack here, he is in denial that someone in his family, his blood could be a monster like this.

i actually spoke to the girlfriend of one of his brothers (not the one with the molested daughter, the other one). apparently he is not sure who to believe anymore. this shook him up a bit. maybe DH too. he's ashamed, i know. i would be too if my father went to prison.

well since he's in prison now, there's nothing to do about FIL for about 2 years, easy to do NC. when he comes out i will find out what restrictions there are regarding him meeting children etc.

i know some of you think i'm part of the problem or that i'm putting my DD in danger by allowing DH to be near us. i do believe he is a victim of decades long emotional abuse and manipulation. we are going to attempt therapy. he probably has a whole ass journey in front of him.

I hope he agrees. I have to say, it'd be a dealbreaker for me if he didn't. I think he would be best to go alone to discuss it but you'd have to trust he was going then.

You need to ask him where he thinks your marriage can go from here, given that you both have the duty of keeping your daughter safe from sexual assault.

Perhaps a chat with a police officer would be a way to start making him change his mind? A police officer should be able to tell him how few cases go forward for prosecution, the kind and level of evidence needed to present to the court, and the odds of a successful prosecution even then.

If he is not open to re-educating himself about Right and Wrong then I am afraid you have decisions to make.

I hope you are able to keep in touch with your niece who has been through hell and back. The thought that her own father has chosen the side of a rapist against her is sickening. Its horrific. Where is the mother in this story?

one more thing, im sorry im venting, but DD just fell asleep so i finally have time to post.
this is all very confusing. i didnt grow up in a family where we had to deal with issues like this. i'm watching every single man that comes into contact with my DD, including my own father. no male has ever been alone with her even for a minute. i chose nursery for her knowing they had all female staff. DH kinda follows my lead, he agrees but i dont suppose he sees danger where i do. like, in general. one evening when i was stressed about something, he told me to go for a run outside to clear my head, listen to some music etc. i had to explain it to him why i cant go out at 9pm alone to run with my headphones on. i do believe he is naive in certain things, but not evil.

im beating myself up for not seeing the potential danger FIL can be from far away. we dont meet him, DH only talks with him on the phone, FIL never talks to DD on the phone alone and tbh he never really showed that much interest in her, she is his 8th grandchild so i always felt like he doesnt care, nothing new here. and STILL, he managed to sneak in that fcking comment about DD eating the banana. he's thousands of miles away, both parents are on the phone call and he fcking say this shiit like he has no care in the world who hears it, out there in the open, im so furious with all of us.

Ah, I had read it as FIL being UK and you being elsewhere. The other way round does complicate things as it would depend on the law of his country on his release.

However in the UK he would be on the Sex Offenders register and a condition of his parole would be absolutely no contact with children.

I have conversations with offenders all the time who say 'I just want to see my grandchildren' and I have to be very blunt and point out it is never going to happen. But the manipulation is so deep that I'm not the first person to tell them, they just keep trying it on with whoever they think will be sympathetic and help them out. Unfortunately for them, I wasn't born yesterday. I've seen loads of professionals who should have known better get sucked in, these people are experts in what they do. Manipulation comes to them like breathing.

Your DH and his brothers grew up with this crap and believed it was love, no wonder they don't know who to believe. As you say, he has a whole ass journey ahead.

@mathanxiety

You need to ask him where he thinks your marriage can go from here, given that you both have the duty of keeping your daughter safe from sexual assault.

Perhaps a chat with a police officer would be a way to start making him change his mind? A police officer should be able to tell him how few cases go forward for prosecution, the kind and level of evidence needed to present to the court, and the odds of a successful prosecution even then.

If he is not open to re-educating himself about Right and Wrong then I am afraid you have decisions to make.

I hope you are able to keep in touch with your niece who has been through hell and back. The thought that her own father has chosen the side of a rapist against her is sickening. Its horrific. Where is the mother in this story?

the niece and her sister kinda grew up with FIL and MIL. parents worked all the time so they spent a lot of time with them, going on holidays with them, you name it, all access. typical neglected child situation. im not in contact with her or her mother, tbh i only met them one before she came forward.

I wouldn't be with your husband as his reaction to your fil behaviour is worrying