FIL in prison for child s. abuse, please advise!

[Overreactingmom13]

Hi everyone, this is my first post here after lurking for years. I desperately need the opinion of strangers who are not emotionally involved in my current situation and might have a clearer head.

TW child sexual abuse

My FIL went to prison yesterday for molesting one of his granddaughters when she was about 12. Years long battle in court, the girl moved to a different city to live with her older sister because 90% of their family thinks she is lying.

FIL is a widow now, has 3 sons, they are a typical wolf pack, protecting each other. Oldest son (the molested girl’s father) believes FIL. Middle son also believes him. DH is the youngest, also believes him.

DH and his brothers grew up emotionally abused, groomed and conditioned to think that dirty sex jokes at the family dinner table with minors around is normal. Their opinion is that FIL doesn’t realise his jokes are crossing the line but he is harmless.

1 day before we were told he’s going to prison (good timing hmm?) we were talking to him on Facetime while our 2 year old DD was eating a banana, let’s be real she was eating it messy, pushing it in her mouth, like any innocent 2 year old. Here comes FIL with one of infamous jokes, telling DD “yes keep practicing, you’ll have to do it soon enough”. In my shock I immediately hung up without saying a word, like a coward. I’m beating myself up still…
I told DH to talk to him about it, he promised he will. Yeah sure. Next day the news come that he’s going to prison, his nasty joke forgotten cause all 3 of his sons are panicking, whats going to happen to their father.

DH is extremely sensitive and naive, completely under the influence of his father and he said to me “please let me believe he is innocent” also that “you are overreacting what he said to DD, it was just a stupid joke”. Growing up in that house with FIL will do that to you, I guess.

I know I’m not overreacting.
What I need to figure out is how to get on the same page as him. He needs to be able smell predators, he can’t be blind when he has a DD.
At the same time I somehow has to consider his feelings, this is a major trauma even to an adult to have their parent in prison for something like this.

I would start with talking to children's services. Let them know your concerns. They will be very concerned at the thought of FIL being in your daughters life. They night not have the staffing to visit whilst FIL is in prison, but if they do ask them to speak to your DH and you in person and be sure he understands that the minute FIL is back in DD's life DH will be out if it for failure to protect and that you will be too if you take his side. Maybe hearing it straight from a professional will shock him into realising its a straight choice between his father and daughter. Then he might be more open to other work to help him unpick his childhood, etc.

The good thing is you have plenty of time. FIL will be in prison, hopefully for a very long time, then out on licence. He will also be subject to a sexual harm prevention order and sex offender registration.

If he goes anywhere near your daughter ring the police. If on licence he will go straight back to prison. If outside the licence period he will go to court for breach of the sexual harm prevention order and might go back to prison.

So you were on a video call with a man who had been accuses of child sex abuse and had your young daughter in the video?
I'm sorry but I carnt imagine what you were thinking allowing this.
He could have had a conversation with your husband with out the child being visible.
Tbh I think you also need to evaluate your boundaries. That man should have nothing to do with your child at all.

Your niece is an incredibly brave person, who has the misfortune to have a predator for a GF and two absolute scumbags for uncles

Unless I've picked it up wrong, her own father didn't believe her either.

OP, you know that if none of them men in the family will believe and put their niece/daughter first and protect her, they won't protect your DD either. That includes your DH. By all means, look into therapy. But be prepared for the possibility that it may not work and you have some serious decisions to make by the time your FIL is released. I would be taking legal advice on the possibility of denying all contact with my DD with her father and her uncles as well as FIL in the event of a divorce. As long as they collude, these men are all a danger to her.

@JustmeandtheKIDS2

So you were on a video call with a man who had been accuses of child sex abuse and had your young daughter in the video? I'm sorry but I carnt imagine what you were thinking allowing this. He could have had a conversation with your husband with out the child being visible. Tbh I think you also need to evaluate your boundaries. That man should have nothing to do with your child at all.

He wasnt just accused. He would have been found guilty by that point. You dont get found guilty on the same day as sentencing. If a prison sentence is a possibility, then a pre-sentence report needs to be made by social workers to help inform the judge of how prison would affect the situation or if another punishment would be better. So, he had already been found guilty and was just awaiting sentencing. And they put their daughter on a video call with him.

@Tamworth123

Your niece is an incredibly brave person, who has the misfortune to have a predator for a GF and two absolute scumbags for uncles

Unless I've picked it up wrong, her own father didn't believe her either.

I included him too in my next sentence, thought Mumsnet wouldn't print the word I wanted to use for him.

we were talking to him on Facetime while our 2 year old DD was eating a banana, let’s be real she was eating it messy, pushing it in her mouth, like any innocent 2 year old. Here comes FIL with one of infamous jokes, telling DD “yes keep practicing, you’ll have to do it soon enough”.

Presumably soon enough means in 10 years or less if he judged 12 an appropriate age at which to start sexually abusing his other grand-daughter.

But maybe he's planning on starting younger with your dd, since the other grand daughter was too "aware" and vocal at 12, and he's been caught out.

I couldn't stay with a man who thought that comment was acceptable, and disbelieved his poor niece and completely abandoned her.
You need to protect your DD, as your husband clearly isn't seeing any sense. In your situation I'd be long gone if he even considered supporting that man.

Thank you all for messaging, I'm still reading through them.

One thing I forgot to mention and it might be important is that DH and me we've been living in a different country for 12 years, and haven't been visiting for quite a few years now. Facetime calls is all we have since Covid started and our DD was born. FIL never met DD in person.

He got a 2.5 years prison sentence, so he is out of our life for a while.

Before Covid we went back to our country once a year to visit family, so there's no personal interaction with any of those people.

I feel truly awful for what DH is going through right now, FIL is a master manipulator, and an abuser. I know he beat them when they were kids. I know DH accidentally saw his parents having sex once when he was a kid. They left their bedroom door wide open. Who does that??

I look at DH as a victim here, I can only imagine what growing up under the influence of FIL can do to your brain. His whole family lives in another country but one of his brothers live here, about an hour drive from us.

I trust DH, I know he would never hurt DD and when it comes to her, his boundaries are clear. He never lets her spend alone time with anyone other than the two of us. He always asks her if he can bathe her or change her nappies. Never walks around naked. He knows this.

But he is naive and I agree that he might now recognise the red flags in others.

He is open to therapy, several times he suggested himself. Looks like I will have to encourage him more to take that step.

DH and me, away from our family in a different country, we are a team here. There's a reason why he dropped out of college and left his family and moved across the world. I'm sure he knows his father is a bad influence, and I think he is too shocked/traumatised to accent that FIL is an actual monster.

Awful, awful situation. I’m so sorry OP.

I think this calls for ‘love and logic’.
Logically your FIL has been convicted beyond all reasonable doubt of being a paedophile. The bar is unbelievably high.
You need to protect your Dd. He is a danger.
She will have absolutely zero contact with him ever again.

At the same time, your DH may take a while to process this. I would be understanding of this and kind whilst holding the line 100% that DD will never again meet your FIL or have any contact.

Support your DH to get specialist counselling. It’s very likely he has been abused emotionally (if nothing else). I would view his as a confused victim. He doesn’t get a say in what happens with your DD as far as FIL goes, but he does get love and support.

@Tamworth123

Your niece is an incredibly brave person, who has the misfortune to have a predator for a GF and two absolute scumbags for uncles

Unless I've picked it up wrong, her own father didn't believe her either.

To clarify a few things more, DH whole family knew about the accusations against FIL. MIL passed away due to a heart attack not long after FIL was accused. What I see here is that the whole family is protecting their own, the leader of their little wolf pack. Maybe DH doesn't smell close danger here because we are far from FIL and there's a high change we will not meet in the future.

2 years isnt long at all tbh op-thank god youre in a different country is all i can say

His boundaries aren't clear if he accepted that comment to your TWO year old daughter as a joke - he minimised that comment after knowing the allegations against his other poor granddaughter.
That's not clear boundaries op - it's minimising behaviour, and that is exactly how the other little girl was abused.
Your Dh needs to wake up. I couldn't see anyone who was ok with that comment towards my child as a victim. He'd be gone the second he tried to pass it off as a "joke".

I couldn’t stay with him, just reading this turns my stomach. I was abused as a very young child by a family member, guess what, I’ve never made excuses for people making repulsive sexualised comments to a two year old. It’s no excuse.

I think your husband would benefit from some safeguarding training. I would also cut all contact with FIL.

Leaving the door wide open so their DC could possibly see them having sex is a form of abuse.

If he’s on the sex offenders register my understanding is that he won’t be allowed any contact with children when he gets out? So your DD is safe. If anyone tried to let FIL have contact you report immediately. I second the suggestion to call the NSPCC for advice and to check he’s not allowed contact

OP you have all my sympathy in this truly awful situation. Glad the FIL is getting the punishment he deserves. Why can't DH and brothers see the truth? Especially your DH - he needs a mind change and fast. Do not tolerate any excuses regarding this abhorrent crime against children. Insist you as a family cut off all and any contact with FIL and anyone who sympathises with him - it would seem FIL cannot change, considering the banana remark to 2yr. old DD. His mind is a sewer. I hope he is given strong medication that controls his vice.

Regardless. How do you know he's not recording the video calls for his own satisfaction later on?. As someone else said he would have been convicted of the crime by then.
I really carnt fathom why you think your young daughter needs to be in th video.!!
I know your dh is also a victim in this and would have had years of conditioning but as a parent first and foremost protecting your child has to come before feeling sorry for your husband.
I'm not sure how you will be able to move forward with him knowing he doesn't believe it happened and there for will not be protecting your dear child.

God. I’m sorry but I really don’t think I could remain married to my husband if he couldn’t accept what his father is. The level of denial is too much.

His words, to me 'please let me believe he is innocent', are the words of a child. The plaintive cry of a child who wants to believe that his Dad is a good man.

Sadly for your DH, his father is not a good man, and your DH is no longer a child, to be comforted by soft lies so he doesn't have to confront the wolf within the door. He's a parent, who needs to put the wellbeing of his daughter and his wife, front and centre.

If he's open to counselling, I hope he goes, because he has some truly serious shit to unpick.

But bottom line, my DD would never be seeing, or hearing that child molesting bastard again. He'd never be allowed to infect her life. That thing that masquerades on two legs as a man, has been enabled and allowed to do enough harm, damage enough lives. Another one shouldn't have to be added to the list to enable your DH to pretend that his father is a good man.

My DD's are no longer in contact with their sole remaining GF for far less. Children need parents who love and protect them. Not grandparents who prey upon them. Whether that's in person, or remotely, via technology.

I can’t stop thinking about the poor niece, her whole family disbelieving her, I just can not imagine it. Please tell me her mother has stood by her?
Therapy for your dh is an absolute must. My bil has 5 children with his ex, she allowed one of her partners to abuse some of them, none of them pressed charges (even though he has since been in prison for sex offences). Bil’s poor children have huge, huge issues now.

I think you need to watch your husband very carefully around your little girl. He has no boundaries.

What a horrible situation, I can see how you see your husband as a victim, he is, but he is also a responsible adult and I’d be very concerned about my childrens father minimising or denying ANY sexual abuse of children. This means he cannot accurately assess risk to his child. If he is open to therapy this is a good idea.

As for your question ‘who does that’ by leaving bedroom door open to allow their young child to see them having sex - a sex offender, that’s who. That was absolutely not accidental and I’d imagine that your DH and his brothers at the very least have been groomed to think very inappropriate things about sex and sexual relationships. The evidence is there in his not taking the comment to your daughter seriously.

Op, I think you have a lot of work to do here to have confidence that this man can keep your child safe. I think you need to start to prepare your DH now that your child will never have a relationship with his father, ever see him on FT, etc. If your DH wants a relationship it’s his call but can you imagine your daughter later in life asking you why you chose to expose her to a convicted sex offender? Even by a screen?

Your DH definitely needs therapy OP to process all of this. I read through how he is with your daughter and it is clear from reading what his boundaries are that he is at least subconsciously aware that his FIL is guilty.

He needs to process this himself because otherwise no matter what you do it will affect his relationship with his DD because either way his boundaries are going to be skewed