DH shouts at me for putting kids in "danger"

[Eyes99]

This morning as we were rushing to get DC ready for nursery - I left the childgate open and out 2.5 year old walked up the stairs and got something from his bedroom

DH spotted DC had gone upstairs and said "You left the bloody gate open, DS could have fallen back down the stairs and cracked his head open"

I said "you are being a bit dramatic" and he then basically lost his s*it and said I'm like a defensive teenager more interested in "not being told off" than our 'DC safety'.

DH then accused me of not caring about DS safety.

This ended in an almighty row and now he's not talking to me

I think I shouldn't have left the gate open but every time DS grabs something he shouldn't (I try my hardest to toddler proof things and I'm very careful) - he always says the worst thing that could have happened e.g. DS grabbed a perfume bottle out of my hand and DS ran off with it and DH said 'He could have poisoned himself'. It's just all a bit much???

He suffers from anxiety. But I don't want to be shouted at all the time. For me - I just think we are as careful as possible but DH gets angry about things that haven't actually happened. He was literally shouting 'DS could have died falling down those stairs' while poor DS is just stood perfectly safe waiting to be driven to nursery

To my mind- the shouting is more damaging as it's actually bloody happening.

Am I too relaxed? Should I be grateful for a DH so child safety conscious?

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee, yes, they most likely agreed together that a stairgate was necessary. They most likely did not agree that certain death would befall the toddler if a stairgate wasn't in place.

Anxiety that is worthy of a clinical diagnosis - which is what the H has - by its very nature is the tendency to lose a sense of perspective.

Just because the thing you worry about could happen doesn't mean it is likely to happen. A person suffering from anxiety loses that perspective.

Yes, you could get run over by a bus, or knifed by a thug, or bitten by a stray dog in the park, or have a heart attack in the supermarket next week. No, those things are very, very unlikely to happen.

Yes, the child could fall down the stairs. No, he is not likely to fall down the stairs. Not every toddler by a long shot falls down every open stairs he encounters.

If the minimising is me calling him dramatic - is it not dramatic to talk about skulls cracking open>

I absolutely do think this is minimising as it is very much a potential outcome. I don't think stating the potential real outcomes (albeit unlikely) should reasonably be seen as dramatic.

People are talking about him bawling at you. Is that what actually happened? What did he actually shout?

@BoodleBug51, oh yes indeed it has.

Tricky one. On the one hand I think he was massively overreacting, but on the other hand, had the sexes been reversed, MN would have been advising LTB for child endangerment.

Anxiety that is worthy of a clinical diagnosis - which is what the H has - by its very nature is the tendency to lose a sense of perspective.

It's completely inappropriate to assume that because someone has anxiety, every single show of worry is related to that clinical anxiety. DP is still allowed to have an opinion about risks without that being dismissed as due to his anxiety.

@Eyes99, your H needs medical help. He won't agree with you that he needs it. He will keep on telling you that you are wrong about everything, a danger to the children, and that all his fears are completely justified, etc.

Your job is to convince him he is barely functioning as an adult human, which is the truth.

You have to find some way to get him to see the GP and get that help.

Do you have friends or family who could stage an intervention?

@BellatricksStrange

Tricky one. On the one hand I think he was massively overreacting, but on the other hand, had the sexes been reversed, MN would have been advising LTB for child endangerment.

Exactly, and telling the DH to expect to be shouted at when he put their child at risk repeatedly because he forgot things. There is another thread on today with a mum cross because her 9.5 year old is left home alone sometimes by exDP. The chances of that child coming to harm are also very slim but the overwhelming response is that exDP is in the wrong to leave him. These are both instances of unlikely but potentially serious outcomes but they are getting very different responses.

It's not ok to shout but it can be very annoying when someone makes a mistake if they are then defensive about it and minimise. It has a tendency to make the other person go over the top and they can then come across as dramatic. Ie he could have died. It sound like you both need to work on your communication and sometimes a sorry I shouldn't have done that goes a long way.

Yes, you could get run over by a bus, or knifed by a thug, or bitten by a stray dog in the park, or have a heart attack in the supermarket next week. No, those things are very, very unlikely to happen.

well obviously but going through the windscreen in a car accident is also unlikely but given how easy it is to put a seatbelt on, I will nontheless reduce the risk further.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee, what the H here is doing is absolutely not a 'sbow of worry'. You are completely wrong.

It is a show of anger, of fear, of grief, of complete inability to deal with the normal ups and downs of life.

He rewrites emails countless times, he lives in fear of losing his job, he shouts at his wife about death in front of the child he thinks he is protecting, clearly not in control of his emotions. He is completely lacking in self awareness and cannot see himself as he is coming across. He sulks. The child has to live in the tense, scary atmosphere he has created.

He is not coping at all with the miscarriage of twins they suffered. He has feelings of anger, grief, and powerlessness. Perhaps anger at Eyes99 for losing the twins, perhaps anger at the universe for dealing them this terrible blow, certainly a sense of powerlessness, and grief.

He needs medical help.

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee

Yes, you could get run over by a bus, or knifed by a thug, or bitten by a stray dog in the park, or have a heart attack in the supermarket next week. No, those things are very, very unlikely to happen.

well obviously but going through the windscreen in a car accident is also unlikely but given how easy it is to put a seatbelt on, I will nontheless reduce the risk further.

Yes - but if you noticed someone in a car didn't have a seatbelt on would you say 'love - don't be an idiot, put a seat belt on' - OR would you turn to the person and scream in their face 'It's not fucking good enough! Put an effing seatbelt or you could go through the windscreen and die. It's like you don't even fucking care if you die or not'

I'm not arguing to not put a seatbelt on. Seatbelts and childgates and every other precaution are all sensible. you just don't need to scream like a maniac when you spot someone has forgotten to take that precaution

I said sorry. I didn't do it on purpose. I agree with him it should be there.

[quote mathanxiety]@Whatiswrongwithmyknee, what the H here is doing is absolutely not a 'sbow of worry'. You are completely wrong.

It is a show of anger, of fear, of grief, of complete inability to deal with the normal ups and downs of life.

He rewrites emails countless times, he lives in fear of losing his job, he shouts at his wife about death in front of the child he thinks he is protecting, clearly not in control of his emotions. He is completely lacking in self awareness and cannot see himself as he is coming across. He sulks. The child has to live in the tense, scary atmosphere he has created.

He is not coping at all with the miscarriage of twins they suffered. He has feelings of anger, grief, and powerlessness. Perhaps anger at Eyes99 for losing the twins, perhaps anger at the universe for dealing them this terrible blow, certainly a sense of powerlessness, and grief.

He needs medical help.[/quote]
This post made me feel like crying. I know deep down you're right. That his outbursts are to do with trauma - from before we lost our twins too - he had a traumatic childhood full of horrible incidents and dysfunction. Though he refuses to talk about it.

He relies on me for everything. And yet he shouts at me if I slip up in the slightest

I know he is a good man. But I am so very tired

I absolutely do think this is minimising as it is very much a potential outcome. I don't think stating the potential real outcomes (albeit unlikely) should reasonably be seen as dramatic.

But you've said it yourself, its a potential but unlikely outcome. Mentally I don't think you can live always jumping to worst case scenario. There has to be a balanced in between perspective. The OP's husband doesn't seem to be able to manage to react in that way.

@UniversalAunt

Ugh, his catastrophic thinking is giving me the ‘ick’ & I won’t be surprised if you get it sometime soon.

Maybe you could be just that be more conspicuously careful? Maybe not? Only you really know the answer to that question & from that work out if the feedback is fair or negging criticism. What is non negotiable is your child’s safety.

BUT you taking the brunt of his unresolved anxiety, poor coping skills & default setting of yelling which is becoming abusive. This does not look promising as everyday life is being taken over by unresolved conflict & rage.

Is he getting treatment from the GP for his anxiety? Referral to a local Cognitive Based Therapy programme?

Good post.

[quote mathanxiety]@Whatiswrongwithmyknee, what the H here is doing is absolutely not a 'sbow of worry'. You are completely wrong.

It is a show of anger, of fear, of grief, of complete inability to deal with the normal ups and downs of life.

He rewrites emails countless times, he lives in fear of losing his job, he shouts at his wife about death in front of the child he thinks he is protecting, clearly not in control of his emotions. He is completely lacking in self awareness and cannot see himself as he is coming across. He sulks. The child has to live in the tense, scary atmosphere he has created.

He is not coping at all with the miscarriage of twins they suffered. He has feelings of anger, grief, and powerlessness. Perhaps anger at Eyes99 for losing the twins, perhaps anger at the universe for dealing them this terrible blow, certainly a sense of powerlessness, and grief.

He needs medical help.[/quote]
The way he writes emails may be completely unrelated to his reaction to this. Even hypochondriacs get cancer - there is no justification in dismissing his concerns in this way. You have no idea whether the anxiety he feels in relation to some areas of his life creates a tense, scary atmosphere - this is conjecture on your part. You have some interesting hypotheses but you should not be stating them as fact regardless of how convincing you feel they are.

@Eyes99 you can't live like this mate. I would refer to @mathanxiety's post and see if you can get him to access help. It looks to me like you're doing everything physically to help while he doesn't do anything practical except go part time and exercise. He needs professional help, not more time off work. And you need backup with dc and not shouting every time you make a tiny mistake. You're holding everything else up financially and doing the lions share of everything else (and being told you're doing it wrong and damaging the dc!). The mental load must be enormous.

*Yes - but if you noticed someone in a car didn't have a seatbelt on would you say 'love - don't be an idiot, put a seat belt on' - OR would you turn to the person and scream in their face 'It's not fucking good enough! Put an effing seatbelt or you could go through the windscreen and die. It's like you don't even fucking care if you die or not'

I'm not arguing to not put a seatbelt on. Seatbelts and childgates and every other precaution are all sensible. you just don't need to scream like a maniac when you spot someone has forgotten to take that precaution*

No I'd not scream and shout like that or believe that anyone else was justified in so doing but what you said happened was that he said "You left the bloody gate open, DS could have fallen back down the stairs and cracked his head open" which is really quite different.

But you've said it yourself, its a potential but unlikely outcome. Mentally I don't think you can live always jumping to worst case scenario. There has to be a balanced in between perspective. The OP's husband doesn't seem to be able to manage to react in that way.

But understanding risk is not about jumping to worst case scenarios, it's about understanding that they are worst-case scenarios. The point is that they decided a balanced perspective together when they agreed to have stair gates.

He isnt the only one that lost twins though he is the only one attacking the other person the ONLY other person who would be able to understand the grief

He needs help ASAP or he needs to go this behaviour is just hurting

@SportsMother Did you read what the OP said her OH said? Was that really speaking to her partner like shit?

I am not surprised you are exhausted.

The thing with these scenarios where parents make mistakes is that every parent ever has made a mistake. And as a responsible parent you are capable of realising that you made a mistake. That is not to say the mistake could not have caused harm, but you are describing behaviour with your husband which - no matter what it is rooted in - is just mean. He is taking the opportunity to shout at you, berate you and make you walk on eggshells because you are not reaching his levels of anxiety. If you are already censuring what you say not to set him off, there is a problem. You and your DC are going to be left with anxiety as well.

My DD did once start climbing the stairs herself when she was about 18 months to 2 years old. There was no stair gate because the bottom of the stair was too wide. She fell down four stairs. I felt dreadful as I had not able to stop her in time. I was a single parent, so basically unless I strapped her in her high chair or put her in her cot, she was going to be on the move. And yes, it was a stone tiled floor at the floor. She was fine as it turned out.

My ex was looking after DS once when DS was about four and he fell off a chair backwards and cracked open his head, requiring paramedics. Did I berate him for not paying enough attention? Much as we were at loggerheads over other things, no, I did not because it was an accident. DS, bless him, still points out where his head was cut open whenever we visit that location.

None of that is to say that we should not watch out for potential accidents and take risks seriously, but we also need to look out for each other as parents and human beings who are doing their best. I think the point is that you know you made a mistake and instead of reassuring you that parents do make mistakes and learn from them and you are a great mum, he is shouting at you and sulking and all sorts, which is of course going to make you totally on edge all the time.

@Eyes99

I don't think I have minimised. I clearly must have done because so many of you think I have.

I've been a bit mean and frustrated about his REACTION, but I never once said it didn't matter or wasn't dangerous. I apologised. If the minimising is me calling him dramatic - is it not dramatic to talk about skulls cracking open>

Both can be true. I can take it seriously and think shouting about death is OTT. Surely there is a middle ground.

But my DH thinks I am minimising and it's stressing him out. When he shouts about the child dying next time something is out of place or within reach or whatever else - should I just say 'you're right, we could have seen our child die just now if he had decided to reach for the dishwasher tablet. Let's sit in silence for four hours and reflect on that' (As he does - silent sulking and staring at the floor over every thing that goes wrong)

I really don’t think you’re minimising. You said sorry to your upset husband and took it on board.

Your husband’s habit of getting himself in an absolute state and ‘rehearsing tragedy’ - dwelling on it so much you trigger the feelings you’d have had it actually happened - is what’s totally unhealthy.

These things happen. People make mistakes. Fretting about what could have happened is deeply unhealthy and reinforces feelings of anxiety.

And if he’s genuinely flipping out over a dishwasher tablet being on the side as you load the dishwasher, that is a totally disproportionate response to risk. And he needs help with it.

*did I berate my ex for not paying enough attention I mean, not DS

The real issue here is your DH "telling you off" tell him where to stick it. He is the child's parent not yours. Let him take care of the kids if he thinks he can do better.