DH shouts at me for putting kids in "danger"

[Eyes99]

This morning as we were rushing to get DC ready for nursery - I left the childgate open and out 2.5 year old walked up the stairs and got something from his bedroom

DH spotted DC had gone upstairs and said "You left the bloody gate open, DS could have fallen back down the stairs and cracked his head open"

I said "you are being a bit dramatic" and he then basically lost his s*it and said I'm like a defensive teenager more interested in "not being told off" than our 'DC safety'.

DH then accused me of not caring about DS safety.

This ended in an almighty row and now he's not talking to me

I think I shouldn't have left the gate open but every time DS grabs something he shouldn't (I try my hardest to toddler proof things and I'm very careful) - he always says the worst thing that could have happened e.g. DS grabbed a perfume bottle out of my hand and DS ran off with it and DH said 'He could have poisoned himself'. It's just all a bit much???

He suffers from anxiety. But I don't want to be shouted at all the time. For me - I just think we are as careful as possible but DH gets angry about things that haven't actually happened. He was literally shouting 'DS could have died falling down those stairs' while poor DS is just stood perfectly safe waiting to be driven to nursery

To my mind- the shouting is more damaging as it's actually bloody happening.

Am I too relaxed? Should I be grateful for a DH so child safety conscious?

[DePfeffoff]

he was sat on the sofa staring at the floor zoned out while the DC were running around causing havoc

I hope you pointed out that that was potentially a more serious situation than anything you have ever done. If he's zoned out, is he going to pay attention when they're about to fall over for put choking hazards in their mouths?

To be honest, I rather doubt that he actually would fight that hard for the kids if you left him. He sounds very self-centred and lazy, and he just wouldn't cope. He'd go back to mummy and they'd be so busy finding things to get worked up about that he wouldn't have time to pursue rights to the children.

[UniversalAunt]

I’m with @mathanxiety @Lolapusht.

[UniversalAunt]

Oh dear @Eyes99 I have just filtered all your posts so I could get your story.

My heart has sunk.
This man is draining the life out of you day by day & he is casting a long angry shadow over your children’s lives.
I am sorry to hear of your late miscarriage, such a traumatic experience for you to go through yet it has become all about him. His self absorption & warped self blanks out the feelings of others when it really matters because he’d have to shift himself out of his internal comfort & self pity.
Usually I am optimistic about couples working through their differences & going the distance together. BUT I do not see this for you.

He is slowly dismantling his responsibilities as an adult & parent by not addressing his problems, by reducing his working patterns, by not holding his end up. Soon, he’ll not be ‘capable’ of work at all, none of you will be thriving & he will rapidly rotate between controlling & dependent states. His anxiety is a useful gambit to carry in as he wishes.

He is not going to seek help because he has you to dump on & bully, he is not going to change because it’s all about him & that’s OK. He is deeply broken & it is not for you to break to keep him company.

He has chosen you because you are ‘laidback’. I bet he said you were wonderful at first & no-one understood him as you do? He has chosen you because you are passive & a carer. He has set you up on a low light so you’ve not noticed how hot the water is. But you can get out now.

I agree @mathanxiety you need to get out of this relationship as soon as you can.

He will not change. He is a pity pit.

[Thisthatandtheotherthing]

Sorry, read some of your updates and yikes. Sorry for my first messege, it's obviously about so much more than this incident

[Thisthatandtheotherthing]

Seems he is quite anxious, but not totally unjustified? I'd probably shout at my partner if I found my DS climbing the stairs unattended and they had left the game open. Shouting is OK sometimes (don't care what people say, it's a pretty natural human response in certain situations) but does sound like your DH needs to keep a better check on his emotions. The stair gate example isn't a good one though, as grown adults sometimes die cracking their heads open on the stairs, what other stuff does he get like this about?

[cdba88]

'Shout at me again like that one more time and we're done.'

[aloris]

This doesn't sound great. I understand that if you are quite "laid back" it may make his anxiety worse as he sees all sorts of dangers that you either don't acknowledge as dangers or that you don't treat with the same sense of urgency as he might see them. But it sounds like he is not taking active steps to manage his anxiety and he's also expecting YOU to take on the burden of accommodating his anxiety. HE feels anxious therefore he plays videogames and expects YOU to clean up the untidy/unclean rooms that make him feel there are choking hazards everywhere.

It sounds like he urgently needs CBT. Just having more "chill" time does not, in my experience, solve the problem because as soon as you go back into the environment, the same anxiety-provoking conditions reappear.

[I0NA]

He can’t watch the kids for a day without help from his mother, so he’s hardly going to want the kids half the time if you split up.

I’m concerned that if he continues to work part time while you work full time, he will position himself as the main carer and try to get spousal maintenance from you. It might be worth getting legal advice.

[mathanxiety]

When we lost our babies - he didn't deal with it and just nagged me about the heating bill relentlessly & keeping the heating too high every day. I even drove myself back from the hospital because he couldn't.

My heart goes out to you.

You cannot go on trying to carry everything on your shoulders.

Go and see a solicitor.

Find yourself a kickass therapist too. You need support as you get yourself and the babies out of this, and you need someone to constantly remind you that your H is not your responsibility.

[mathanxiety]

I wish I could find a way out without ruining everyone's lives.

You are not going to ruin everyone's lives by finding the legal way out of this.

He can sink or swim on his own. You are not responsible for him.

Go to a solicitor and talk frankly about what you are dealing with, Explore the options you have wrt his contact with the children.

[BookFiend4Life]

Sorry OP, that's just an expression. It means a serious conversation where you lay all your cards on the table, tell him exactly what needs to change and what the consequences will if they don't. I think a lot of women feel the way that you do, that separating will just cause a lot of angst and difficulty, and some of those women stay and some don't. I wish you the best, I know it's very difficult.

[sillysmiles]

@Eyes99

Oh gosh. That was such an essay. Sorry. Can't believe this all started about a stairgate.

Even if you can't get him to go to some stuff of therapy - you need someone to talk to. You've had a shit ton to deal with, with no support.
Please start looking after yourself. You deserve it and your children need it.

[Eyes99]

Oh gosh. That was such an essay. Sorry. Can't believe this all started about a stairgate.

[Eyes99]

@mathanxiety @Lolapusht

Yes to everything you've written here. I'm so used to supporting him too and putting everything down to anxiety that we are completely out of whack with stuff

Like right now I'm working from the spare room (albeit on MN quickly) and he is playing video games. The kitchen is a state. The bathrooms need doing. He is at home today but if I ask him to do them he will make a joke out of it, then he will possibly say he will do it in a bit, and then if i push him further he will say

"You said I could have time off work to sort my head out but actually you just wanted to have me at home to nag me"

A couple of days ago he said

"I didn't manage to clean YOUR bathroom today because I was too busy looking after the kids"

I said 'OUR bathroom' and he was like 'oh god - do you have a day off?'

The problem is I could list countless examples of poor behaviour - it all stems from him thinking I'm his mother and I'm in charge. I think you're right about me needing to be perfect and thats why he shouts when I screw tiny stuff up.

He actually jokes I have three sons. And he always says 'thank god you're in charge'

I hate it. I hate it. I hate it.

I wish I could find a way out without ruining everyone's lives. If I thought I could be free - I would do it -but I'm just swapping one headache (having an anxious manchild in my house who occassionally is sweet/funny/helpfu) to another headache (a depressed bitter manchild ex husband who I will spend 15 yrs fighting over children)

I feel so depressed. And angry at myself for falling for it and giving my two DS this scenario

When we lost our babies - he didn't deal with it and just nagged me about the heating bill relentlessly & keeping the heating too high every day. I even drove myself back from the hospital because he couldn't.

[Eyes99]

@BookFiend4Life "a come to Jesus talk with him"

???

[Tomlettegregg]

Im on your side to be honest because my husband is the same and it's a nightmare to live with. He has ocd as does his dad and I know that's where the constant "BE CAREFUL" comes from but it doesn't make it easier to live with. I think you're resentful (fairly) about a lot of other things though. You probably do feel a bit guilty which exacerbates defensiveness (I'm the same, my baby has rolled off the bed a few times on my watch but onto plush carpet). My husband over analyses danger constantly as do his parents. Mine are the opposite. Extremely laissez faire and I'm very relaxed about most danger. He thinks I'm careless. I think hes over the top. It's very hard to find a middle ground so you have my sympathies.

[BookFiend4Life]

OP I'm on your side. Yes I think his reactions are wrong. My dad can be like this, I left my water bottle unscrewed once and a little water spilled out and it was just relentless
"Do you always leave the lid off?"
"No it was an accident"
"It could have ruined the couch"
"It was an accident, I'll get it cleaned up"
"That's really careless"
"I'm sorry it was an accident"

Have you tried telling him he's not allowed to yell at you? Can you leave the room every single time he raises his voice? Can you be firmer about his need to see a therapist? I think if you are not getting joy out of the relationship it's ok to leave... I doubt very much he would try for 50-50 custody, and I think it would be unlikely to be awarded with untreated mental health issues?

Have you had a come to Jesus talk with him about his behavior? It's also not ok for him to accuse you of not caring about the kids. Maybe you should suggest a trial separation till he handles his anxiety, it would probably be a big relief to you and the littles.

[mathanxiety]

YYY to everything you posted, @Lolapusht.

[Lolapusht]

And yet he shouts at me if I slip up in the slightest - he needs you to be perfect because if you’re not the world falls apart. He’s transferred his coping to you because he can’t deal with it but he’s then got no control over what happens because you are a separate autonomous entity. His anger is his reaction to losing control. The more his anxiety spirals the less in control he’ll feel so the more he’ll rely on you. His anxiety will then intensify his reaction to seemingly mundane happenings. He needs professional help to get coping mechanisms and unpick what’s happened to him to make him react how he does. Ironically, he’s not actually helping the children. Yes we all need to be aware of safety etc, but that’s not what this is about. Your DC will not learn how to avoid danger, solve problems, get themselves out of problems and will be scared of trying new things (riding a bike, climbing, new sports, making friends, tryin anything new). That is really bad but the shouting is worse. I cannot fathom how a parent shouting about his DC falling downstairs and cracking his skull open or poisoning himself IN FRONT OF THE CHILD is completely unacceptable. Shouting is a no, shouting graphic chit like that is beyond a no. He has got to get help otherwise he is going to destroy his family. He is not coping and he cannot expect you to cope on his behalf while picking up his slack.

[mathanxiety]

"I know you think I'm OTT - but I'd rather be OTT than have something awful happen to our kids. I can't see how you don't understand that - we need to keep them safe, so I will do whatever I need to do to do that. I don't understand why you have a go at me for wanting to keep the kids safe"

@Eyes99
He is a very angry man.
You need to stop tiptoeing around him and stop trying to control the level of anxiety.


You are falling into the trap of co-dependency when you talk of mitigating his cyclical bad spells. He is a grown adult and he is responsible for maintaining his own equilibrium. Please get a hold of books on co-dependency and start letting their lessons sink in.


You need to insist instead that he gets the help he needs to return to full time work. If the children must be in nursery because he is in effect self medicating with exercise, walks, etc, then he is costing you all money, and if he cannot cope with the children on his own, his anxiety is depriving them of a relationship with him.

You need to insist that he deals with whatever trauma he experienced in his earlier life, and be upfront with him that the fallout from it is going to wreck the relationship.

Consult a solicitor before you broach any of these topics with him. Know what you can expect from divorce.

Stop trying to discuss the stairgate incident and his OTT response. He has decided he holds the high ground and you don't have any hope of putting a dent in his 'logic'.

You cannot tiptoe around the anger he is displaying toward you.
You need to ask him straight up if he blames you for the miscarriage.

[Twobirdsinatree]

Thays so abusive. His anxiety isn't your fault.
We never even had a stair gate for either child. And in both houses we had two flights of stairs. The only incident we've ever had was when my son was 4 he tripped over his foot and fell down an entire flight of stairs... but he was completely unharmed even tho they were wooden stairs and quite steep!
I actually think staircases are a bit of a con... not always obv, sometimes they are necessary especially with crawling babies.
But my two were fully able to walk up and down stairs with no incident at 2.5 years old. I think by that age stair Gates actually end up posing more of a danger as kids often try and climb on them etc... and its a much sharper fall from a stairgate even at the bottom of the stairs.. I personally think its safer to allow you children to learn how to safely go up and down stairs.
So basically I think your husband is very wrong... of course if you agreed to use a stairgate together then you should try and do that but this was an accident and it wasnt really that dangerous... no one was hurt nor really in that much danger of being hurt
And you know what even if your child had been hurt it still wouldn't have merited your husband blaming you and shouting at you that way because it was an accident and these things happen.

He really needs to take responsibility for his own anxiety and get proper professional help.

Id also add its probably far more damaging ti your child to grow up around their father shouting at their mother and their mother being in edge all the time trying not to set him off.. than it is to climb up the stairs once

[mathanxiety]

Despite you thinking that I am in denial of reality (i.e. refusing to accept the 'wisdom' of your opinion), you can see a trend on this thread for some people to think that the OPs response was minimising and that this causes the DP to need to state his concerns in an exaggerated form. I stand by my opinion that it is unacceptable to write off everything the DP says because of his anxiety. I think that it disablist and hugely unpleasant TBH. Mentally unwell people can still have valid points and I personally am not comfortable putting everything they do down to their mental ill health.
@Whatiswrongwithmyknee
You are still completely wrong, and the show of concern for people with MH issues doesn't sit right with me, with your implication that I don't care, or I am downright disablist.

It doesn't help people suffering from anxiety at the level this man is suffering to pander to him. That won't make the crippling anxiety go away. All it will accomplish is that his anxiety will affect the children and possibly wreck his marriage.

It is not disablist to suggest that someone with a broken leg go to A&E and get it set and in a cast. It is not disablist to state that the completely selective concern over the child's safety, the shouting in the child's presence, the references to catastrophe and death are not signs of robust mental health, and again I question your motives in continuing to deny that this man has a problem and lay the blame for the interaction the OP and her H had on the OP.

Anxiety that has reached such a level that the H is not aware or is refusing to acknowledge how he is coming across or the damage his shouting and sulking are doing is not going to be assuaged by the OP taking more care about the child's safety. Once the stairgate issue is settled, the anxiety is going to pop up in some other area - additives in food, fluoride in water, 5G phone signals, chemicals in the carpet or the mattresses or the painted feature wall, and on and on and on.

Yes, many dangers exist out there, and in the home. No, they are not all worth losing sleep over or going to any trouble to avoid. They are not worth shouting at your wife about or putting your marriage in jeopardy.

I strongly suggest you educate yourself on the topic of anxiety.

[Wannabegreenfingers]

My stair gates were long gone at 2.5. They terrify me.

Teach your child to safely navigate the stairs both up and down from the very beginning.

Your husband is being very ott.

[KatyAnna]

Yes, the thing is it does not matter what is behind controlling and manipulative behaviour, it is still controlling and manipulative to the person on the receiving end.
On some level he knows this is not reasonable. Why make the ‘don’t divorce me, I could not cope’ comment if not because he knows you would have grounds and he is emotionally manipulating you to feel indispensable to his well-being (whilst at the same time, constantly doing you down). Exhausting.