DH shouts at me for putting kids in "danger"

[Eyes99]

This morning as we were rushing to get DC ready for nursery - I left the childgate open and out 2.5 year old walked up the stairs and got something from his bedroom

DH spotted DC had gone upstairs and said "You left the bloody gate open, DS could have fallen back down the stairs and cracked his head open"

I said "you are being a bit dramatic" and he then basically lost his s*it and said I'm like a defensive teenager more interested in "not being told off" than our 'DC safety'.

DH then accused me of not caring about DS safety.

This ended in an almighty row and now he's not talking to me

I think I shouldn't have left the gate open but every time DS grabs something he shouldn't (I try my hardest to toddler proof things and I'm very careful) - he always says the worst thing that could have happened e.g. DS grabbed a perfume bottle out of my hand and DS ran off with it and DH said 'He could have poisoned himself'. It's just all a bit much???

He suffers from anxiety. But I don't want to be shouted at all the time. For me - I just think we are as careful as possible but DH gets angry about things that haven't actually happened. He was literally shouting 'DS could have died falling down those stairs' while poor DS is just stood perfectly safe waiting to be driven to nursery

To my mind- the shouting is more damaging as it's actually bloody happening.

Am I too relaxed? Should I be grateful for a DH so child safety conscious?

@Eyes99

This morning as we were rushing to get DC ready for nursery - I left the childgate open and out 2.5 year old walked up the stairs and got something from his bedroom

DH spotted DC had gone upstairs and said "You left the bloody gate open, DS could have fallen back down the stairs and cracked his head open"

I said "you are being a bit dramatic" and he then basically lost his s*it and said I'm like a defensive teenager more interested in "not being told off" than our 'DC safety'.

DH then accused me of not caring about DS safety.

This ended in an almighty row and now he's not talking to me

I think I shouldn't have left the gate open but every time DS grabs something he shouldn't (I try my hardest to toddler proof things and I'm very careful) - he always says the worst thing that could have happened e.g. DS grabbed a perfume bottle out of my hand and DS ran off with it and DH said 'He could have poisoned himself'. It's just all a bit much???

He suffers from anxiety. But I don't want to be shouted at all the time. For me - I just think we are as careful as possible but DH gets angry about things that haven't actually happened. He was literally shouting 'DS could have died falling down those stairs' while poor DS is just stood perfectly safe waiting to be driven to nursery

To my mind- the shouting is more damaging as it's actually bloody happening.

Am I too relaxed? Should I be grateful for a DH so child safety conscious?

I would let your oh know that they're only supposed to be used until the child is 2 years?

EU guidelines say you should stop using stair gates when your child is 2 years old. They may be able to climb over or dislodge the gate at that age and injure themselves. Remove the gates sooner if your child is able to climb over them.
Given that I'd say your oh is the one endangering the child's life!

@Whatiswrongwithmyknee I’ve just read your posts. There are a lot of them.

You seem to have a bee in your bonnet and won’t be happy until the OP rolls over and tells you’re right, you know her better than she does. She hasn’t said she doesn’t believe safety measures need to be in place, but she’s rightly and fairly struggling with the H’s utterly disproportionate responses go things that didn’t happen.

She also isn’t minimising, she just doesn’t believe on dwelling on things that didn’t happen. What’s the point of dwelling on something that didn’t happen? What does it achieve? I could sit here and get myself into a total state by envisaging what it would be like to have a heart attack and die on agony, leaving my son motherless, all because I had a fish supper tonight. Full of saturated fat which is known for causing atherosclerosis, right?!

Also, I really dislike your post where you double down and suggest she exaggerated what her husband said and how he said it.

Well you didnt read them well if that's the conclusion you drew. The OP has given mixed messages about what he actually did and its hard to give helpful thoughts without more clarity. If you think that can only be about accusing her of exaggerating, I would say that says much more about you then it does of me.

Really odd of you to see a conversation as wanting someone to roll over. Really odd for you to think a conversation about risk assessment is wanting to show that I know her better than she does??

I have anxiety around my dc getting hurt, I find when dp minimises the situation it makes it worse, so stair gate left open by accident I panic, if he brushes it under the carpet as if it doesn’t matter I panic because I think ‘well next time he will leave it open again’ if he actually chats about it, ‘sorry moment of not thinking/forgot he wasn’t safe on the stairs/I will remember’ it really eases my worries. Obviously we do disagree on what’s safe and what isn’t, but for the big things minimising the issue doesn’t help the situation for the person with the anxieties.

@Yuckypretty

He really needs to work on his anxiety. It's not OK for him to shout at you like that.

This.

And you need to teach your 2.5 yo to manage the stairs.

It sounds like you are doing a lot for your H and he’s not doing much to help himself. How long are you willing to put up with this?

"It sounds like you are doing a lot for your H and he’s not doing much to help himself. How long are you willing to put up with this?"

Funny given the nature of the thread but one of the things stopping me leaving him is me worrying about leaving the kids with him. He's v anxious and could become v depressed and resentful. He actually said only yesterday

"Don't you ever divorce me. You know I won't do well. I wouldn't manage"

He was half joking.

I can't get my head round how you divorce unstable men who would go for 5050 when you have tiny DC

He has lots of good qualities and I do enjoy his company. But he can be...urm..difficult

They don’t go for 50:50, it’s just a threat to keep us in line, because they know how much we love our kids. And of course So they don’t have to pay child support.

My ex used to say that he wanted the kids 100% of the time and I should leave . Guess how many nights he had the kids last year?

Six nights. That’s not 6 nights per child, its 6 nights total between 3 kids.

Your husband who “ won’t manage “ without you is not going to want to parent haLf the time. It will be too “ stressful and tiring “ for him. He will need to rest at weekends if he’s having to work full time again without you to support him.

You must be exhausted - two children under 3 , working full time and having to be a perfect mother the rest of the time or get shouted at. I don’t know how you cope or why you’d want to TBH. Wouldn’t your life be easier as a single mum - you are paying for child care anyway so your H can relax and have hobbies.

And your children would be away from the constant shouting, verbal abuse, drama and catastrophising.

BTW You need to be very careful if he decides to give up work completely as he might be able to say he is the main carer for the children if you split up.

It's ironic that your laidback attitude of not wanting to see the worst case scenario has gotten you into the mess of being married to your DH. By not realising his inherent anxiety/neuroses were always going to get exacerbated with kids. Reading all your updates, he always seems to have been this way? No one gets less anxious when they become a parent... As unreasonable as you find his behaviour, it seems well ingrained and I'm not sure it can be cured unless he does years of therapy. To him you probably are committing an absolutely heinous crime, but it's his way of looking at the world (death everywhere) so you can't just reprogram his brain.

Some people are just excessively anxious - my best friend's DH is totally the type who would catastrophise everything. They're talking about having kids and I did have to remind her that it's likely he will get worse when his paternal instinct kicks in.... But other than finding ways to better communicate with each other - maybe injecting humour if you can, not sure there's a solution. I think your values and world views are just quite incompatible. If you stay, you'll just have to find a way to live with it, as even with meds/therapy, it will take a long time to resolve. Maybe leaving is an option? Either way, as the kids are 50% him you absolutely can't protect them from being anxious - some of it might even be a genetic predisposition to anxiety and he'll always be around them in some capacity.

The way he writes emails may be completely unrelated to his reaction to this. Even hypochondriacs get cancer - there is no justification in dismissing his concerns in this way. You have no idea whether the anxiety he feels in relation to some areas of his life creates a tense, scary atmosphere - this is conjecture on your part. You have some interesting hypotheses but you should not be stating them as fact regardless of how convincing you feel they are.

Every single detail the OP writes about her husband screams anxiety, depression, anger, grief.

It really shouldn't be news to you, and it's not hard to understand, but a home where there is a man shouting at a woman over her 'mistakes', and a woman trying to avoid being shouted at and to keep the shouting out of earshot of the child is scary and tense.

Rewriting emails multiple times, terrified of getting them wrong, living in fear of losing his job - this is about as far from normal as it gets.

You are completely and utterly in denial of the reality in front of your eyes here, @Whatiswrongwithmyknee. I don't know why.

his outbursts are to do with trauma - from before we lost our twins too - he had a traumatic childhood full of horrible incidents and dysfunction. Though he refuses to talk about it.

@Eyes99
He doesn't have the option of refusing to talk about it and carrying on inflicting the fallout of his trauma on his wife and children. Nobody owes him that. Not you, and certainly not your children.

You need to put it on the line. He gets help or it is over.

First, get yourself a good solicitor and explore your options.

While you think about things, make sure your stairgates are always closed and nothing crops up that he could use to allege you are a neglectful mother. Be very focused for a few months.

Take careful note of every time he says he can't deal with the children and every time something happens/they are in danger when they are in his care. Keep a diary.

Your DH's anxiety and shouting is going to be far more damaging to your dc than any of the examples you've given. I've never been much of a baby proofer and by 2.5 dc would have just climbed stair gates anyway. No one here cracked their head open and perfume tastes vile . No 2 year old is going to drink it. His reaction is totally over the top.

Or maybe he’s just pissed off at his partner being so neglectful of her children?

Oh come on, she forgot it's not neglectful and it is ridiculously dramatic to start shouting about cracking heads open when that didn't happen and no harm was done. I also don't see why you had to apologise. You're not a naughty child and haven't done anything wrong directly to DH to require an apology to him. If ds had fallen and as is more likely, acquired a bruise or something, I'd probably have said sorry to them.

@mathanxiety

The way he writes emails may be completely unrelated to his reaction to this. Even hypochondriacs get cancer - there is no justification in dismissing his concerns in this way. You have no idea whether the anxiety he feels in relation to some areas of his life creates a tense, scary atmosphere - this is conjecture on your part. You have some interesting hypotheses but you should not be stating them as fact regardless of how convincing you feel they are.

Every single detail the OP writes about her husband screams anxiety, depression, anger, grief.

It really shouldn't be news to you, and it's not hard to understand, but a home where there is a man shouting at a woman over her 'mistakes', and a woman trying to avoid being shouted at and to keep the shouting out of earshot of the child is scary and tense.

Rewriting emails multiple times, terrified of getting them wrong, living in fear of losing his job - this is about as far from normal as it gets.

You are completely and utterly in denial of the reality in front of your eyes here, @Whatiswrongwithmyknee. I don't know why.

Your writing style is really arrogant. You write as if you are the only one with a valid opinion and as if your opinion is fact. I'm not going to respond to you any more as you are not conversing but rather deigning to share your 'expertise' with others. There is no need to go on about his emails. No-one has ever said that this is normal. If you think it is as far from normal as it gets though, I think you have led a sheltered life. Despite you thinking that I am in denial of reality (i.e. refusing to accept the 'wisdom' of your opinion), you can see a trend on this thread for some people to think that the OPs response was minimising and that this causes the DP to need to state his concerns in an exaggerated form. I stand by my opinion that it is unacceptable to write off everything the DP says because of his anxiety. I think that it disablist and hugely unpleasant TBH. Mentally unwell people can still have valid points and I personally am not comfortable putting everything they do down to their mental ill health.

My DH is constantly putting our children in danger. It’s not on purpose but it actually drives me mad and I see where your husband is coming from. He will leave the side gate open then let them in the garden/stairgate open with a 1 year old etc etc. I feel as well as my own work load I am constantly having to double check what he has done and it is absolutely exhausting.

Some people aren’t tuned into danger or too forgetful etc and it’s extremely stressful. The outcomes of these things can be serious, eg yes falling down the stairs can crack your head open and I don’t think that’s unreasonable to point out to try to hammer it home so it doesn’t keep happening!

@Giraffesandbottoms

My DH is constantly putting our children in danger. It’s not on purpose but it actually drives me mad and I see where your husband is coming from. He will leave the side gate open then let them in the garden/stairgate open with a 1 year old etc etc. I feel as well as my own work load I am constantly having to double check what he has done and it is absolutely exhausting.

Some people aren’t tuned into danger or too forgetful etc and it’s extremely stressful. The outcomes of these things can be serious, eg yes falling down the stairs can crack your head open and I don’t think that’s unreasonable to point out to try to hammer it home so it doesn’t keep happening!

Except this isn't comparable at all. OP is not always doing it and says she thinks herself that the gate is necessary (I'm less sure). The child in question ins 2.5 not 1 she's not letting him out in to the street. It was a mistake that she acknowledged, just rightly objected to the unpleasant and hugely over zealous reaction

@liveforsummer

My DH also thinks the safety stuff is necessary, he just forgets!

OP you are not being unreasonable. I developed PTSD (following a stillbirth, I am so sorry for the loss of your twins). I knew, and my husband knew, that before we had another baby I had to get my anxiety under control because from my line of work I know how negative extreme parental anxiety can be for children. I went to therapy, engaged completely with CBT and now I am ‘in recovery’. It may be harder for your husband if this is a lifelong condition but he needs to understand that he is doing significant damage to his children by his actions. I also have a tendency to jump to worst case scenarios, but I would never shout them out around my DS. We’ve had a situation where my DH left the stair gate open and my (younger than your) DS did nearly fall. I calmly asked my husband to make sure he shut it next time, when I have intrusive thoughts about how he could die I shake my head, shudder internally and accept that they are my problem and not a reflection of reality and move on. This is hard, it takes practice.
If your husband won’t acknowledge that his anxiety is an issue then I think you are within your rights to leave him.

[quote Giraffesandbottoms]@liveforsummer

My DH also thinks the safety stuff is necessary, he just forgets![/quote]
Ok but still, the word 'constantly' is the huge difference here. Do you scream, shout, catastrophic event in front of your dc too. If yes you are damaging them.

I never had stairgates and lived in a house with a lot of stairs. Instead I taught my kids to use stairs safely. Never did either one fall down the stairs or hurt themselves.

HIBU. He has to be right. It's about controlling you not his child's safety.

I don’t scream and shout in front of DS but obviously I am getting increasingly angry with DH in private. Some of this stuff is just extremely dangerous.

@SportsMother

Other ideas of how to handle are very welcome!

@Giraffesandbottoms - I don't think it does 'hammer it home'. I am usually very careful about everything but I was running around trying to get two children ready for the day. And then my DS1 had a tantrum because I wouldn't let him eat a packet of crisps at 8am in the morning (HA) and in 10 seconds he was up those stairs.

DH heard him upstairs and went to the stairs and started saying about 'cracked skulls etc'. I said 'sorry that was me' and then I actually was the one who went up stairs to get DS and bring him down (because DH would rather stand still and shout then actually do something about it).... and as I passed DH I said 'bit dramatic don't you think' or something like that. Which could be minimising. But also it is dramatic???

And then he started to shout at me.

And then he shouted at me later

And then he went silent on me for a few hours

And now we are back to "fine" again. Though yesterday evening DS had a sponge in his hands and DH started saying 'For god sake where did he get that sponge' and I said 'oh it's a sponge he plays with in his play kitchen, it's clean' and DH started saying 'he better not have got it from under the sink where you keep the cleaning stuff.'

It's relentless.

It doesn't make anything better or safer. What I feel so upset by is the very real danger of us turning DS into an anxious, unhappy kid who can't pick up a sponge without hearing his dad make a big deal out of it.

You’re right to be concerned that your DH’s anxiety will rub off on your son, it will. Kids are so hard for anxiety because it’s all about control, you can’t have absolute control over your kids and you can’t shield them from every risk. You have to get comfortable with that or it will drive you insane. At the moment it’s a stair gate and a sponge, what happens when your DS is older and your husband seems activities ‘too risky’, his life will become restricted by his dads fear. It’s not fair. I guess the problem you have is he doesn’t realise it’s not a reasonable level of anxiety, so he doesn’t see a problem. Therapy is the only way to change this but it will really challenge him and he has to engage. Does he accept that his mental health is damaging for the kids at all?

Ironically (is it irony??) - we still pay for childcare when DH is off work because he doesn't seem able to cope. We both say it's because we don't want to disrupt the routine...but yesterday...I worked all day, the two kids were in nursery and back home by 4pm, I then finished work at 5.30 (so he'd had them for 1.5 hours alone) - and he was sat on the sofa staring at the floor zoned out while the DC were running around causing havoc. So I don't trust him to do it alone all day when he's off. So I don't know how I can ever feel able to leave them with him post-separation or overnight. And he will be worse if I leave him. His anxiety flares up like over the last couple of days but I keep it in check with lots of reassurance usually (unlike yesterday where I had had enough - hence the overdramatic comment)...but if I left...I hate to think where things might end up.