DH shouts at me for putting kids in "danger"

[Eyes99]

This morning as we were rushing to get DC ready for nursery - I left the childgate open and out 2.5 year old walked up the stairs and got something from his bedroom

DH spotted DC had gone upstairs and said "You left the bloody gate open, DS could have fallen back down the stairs and cracked his head open"

I said "you are being a bit dramatic" and he then basically lost his s*it and said I'm like a defensive teenager more interested in "not being told off" than our 'DC safety'.

DH then accused me of not caring about DS safety.

This ended in an almighty row and now he's not talking to me

I think I shouldn't have left the gate open but every time DS grabs something he shouldn't (I try my hardest to toddler proof things and I'm very careful) - he always says the worst thing that could have happened e.g. DS grabbed a perfume bottle out of my hand and DS ran off with it and DH said 'He could have poisoned himself'. It's just all a bit much???

He suffers from anxiety. But I don't want to be shouted at all the time. For me - I just think we are as careful as possible but DH gets angry about things that haven't actually happened. He was literally shouting 'DS could have died falling down those stairs' while poor DS is just stood perfectly safe waiting to be driven to nursery

To my mind- the shouting is more damaging as it's actually bloody happening.

Am I too relaxed? Should I be grateful for a DH so child safety conscious?

@lemonjam and mine hasn't. He has never been a physical child and struggles with stairs. They're all different and every parent needs to consider safeguarding based on their own child's capabilities.

I think he needs to seek help with his anxiety.

I wouldn't have the gates up at all at 2.5, but some would, and that's fine too.

I really hate it when people suggest to children that they could fail and injure themselves at every opportunity.

Personally I couldn't live with that, for my children and my own sanity.
I would give DH an ultimatum to seek help or leave.

Kids need to experience risk and learn to judge it themselves, within safe parameters.

Our health visitor used to remove the stairgates at two years old because they are more at risk from trying to climb up over it than falling down the stairs at that age they were taught to use hands and feet to go up alone and come down on their bottoms

School nursery activities include safe stair training literally all the nursery children walked around the primary school on a rope (with handles on) walking up and down the stairs its an excellent way of tiring them out when it's too cold or wet to go outside for long

He is causing way more damage with his behaviour that you are

I would consider your future with this man very carefully.

What, if anything, has he done here to address his apparent anxiety?.

What is he like towards people in the outside world, all sweetness and light I suppose. It is for you, and in turn your DS, that this ill treatment is directed at. What do you want to teach your child about relationships here; it will not do him any favours at all for him to see his dad shout at his mum for some transgression relating to risks either real or imagined.

I’m with you. We’ve never had a stair gate. As soon as ds was moving we taught him how to go up and down by himself and he is naturally cautious so is careful. Similarly he naturally backs away from the oven when I tell him I’m going to open it because he knows it’s hot from being allowed close enough to feel the heat from a safe distance. Some kids are less cautious…. Only you know your child. I would be angry at my husband if he didn’t close the gate into the road because to my mind that is a serious risk. So can’t be 100% sure who is right or wrong here, but I agree that the constant hovering, shouting and creating the impression that the world is just full of things waiting to hurt your child, is damaging to a child’s natural instinct to explore and be interested in the world and learn from real experiences. I agree that his anxiety is likely to create anxiety in your child too especially with the shouting, and your approach to calmly remind is much better.

@JustWonderingIfYou

So your child never goes up and down the stairs alone?! My 2 year old is up and down all day, no chance I'm following him everything at 38 weeks pregnant. I would actually send him up for something like perfume to save myself the trip! I think I'd tell dh to focus on teaching the child how to use the stairs rather than so much shouting.

Was going to say the same thing.

My kids are 3 & 4 and stair gate has been down for at least a year but probably longer. And indeed I sent the kids up the stairs for stuff when I was pregnant.

You absolutely have to be mindful of dangers but you also have to teach them awareness and safety. And you will never ever protect them from everything.

My 6 month old has a horrible bleeding scratch on her face that she got from a piece of cardboard positioned in exactly the wrong way!

And yeah your DH needs to pack in shouting. A quick, 'sprog got up the stairs, keep an eye on the stairgate' would have been suffice.

I don't have any additional advice that hasn't already been said by PPs. However if you ever split up, I can see your DP causing a world of issues with custody matters. He seems to think you're incompetent as a parent which is not on. Ok I can only go on what you've said on here, but you don't sound any different to any other loving mother....

His shouting is unnecessary and damaging.

In that moment, you knew your child was safe, and nothined was gained by yelling at you.

In a calmer moment can you discuss with your DH that, if he's worried about his child's wellbeing, he wouldn't be yelling at you in front of them.

Is his shouting down to his anxiety? or he's just a shouty person? or you regularly overlook safety issues and he's at the end of his tether (or perhaps a combination?)

Purple daisies…I think the point lemon jam was trying to make is that by 2.5 most kids should be able to get up and down safely …if that’s not the case why? So what’s going through my head is have they really spent time with the child finding the best way to climb and descend the stairs ? My kids certainly used hands and feet at that age going up and the bum slide going down - very safe…by 2.5 they bum slid faster than I could get down. they progressed to the 2 feet on single step descent method later, before they’d really built muscle to be able to go 1 foot on each stair. I think it also takes a long time before they have strength to ascend on balls of feet like adults do. So i just wonder whether Op and her partner appreciate this gradually skill learning and are allowing their child to stretch themselves and learn ? It’s thinking about how to mitigate the risks at each stage not avoid the stage complete. We put in an extra lower handrail on other side to help as our handrail was high and a bit awkward. Yes I’d put a Stair gate at top at night or when they were in bed just in case they decided to wander in a sleepy daze

@JustWonderingIfYou

So your child never goes up and down the stairs alone?! My 2 year old is up and down all day, no chance I'm following him everything at 38 weeks pregnant. I would actually send him up for something like perfume to save myself the trip! I think I'd tell dh to focus on teaching the child how to use the stairs rather than so much shouting.

All children are different. My 2yo isn’t anywhere near the stairs unsupervised, I’ve seen him stumble too many times to risk it. He walks up and down then himself and is currently learning to do alternate steps, but I’m always behind him or in front of him.

It was an accident leaving the stair gate open. He doesn't need to speak to you like you're a naughty child or shout at you about it. Yes all sorts of awful things could have happened. On the other hand, nothing bad did happen other than your dh shouting at you.

Many people I know didn't even bother with stair gates anyway, and just taught their child to get up and down safely (child dependent). Our stair gates were removed from the stairs by 2/2.5 years old, and we just had them across dcs bedroom doors until they were a little older. And I think one across the bathroom door because ds kept putting his hands and toys inside the toilet bowl 🤢

shrodingersvaccine

What you are describing here with your man is called strategic or deliberate incompetance. It is the art of avoiding undesirable tasks by pretending to be unable to do them therefore making sure that you as the woman does this in future. Emotional labour is doubled when you’ve got an incompetent clown on your hands.

Using his logic op, Id better not go out this afternoon for a walk because I might get hit by a bus.

Yes your ds might have fallen but............ I fell down the stairs at home when I was a kid so many times. Twenty times at least I rolled to the bottom by accident - I seem to have survived ok. :)
Yes leaving the child gate open isnt ideal but he's alright so no harm done. I do think a child hearing shouting and major anxiety is a concern so he needs to quit doing that.

MIL was like this, saw death and danger all the time, to the extent where she brought up a man (my ex) who was terrified of everything.
Whilst there’s a balance to be had, inflicting his fear into his children like this is borderline abusive.
If he has a point he needs to talk calmly about it and not make stupid “crack open his skull” comments in front of the children.

I think it’s a reasonable fear a child may fall down the stairs when distracted.
BUT
an interesting observation. A while back I moved into a house with a very stupid small step in a single open plan room between the kitchen and dining/ utility areas. I was concerned that it was a major trip hazard before I bought, that I’d trip when carrying things to and fro the kitchen. There is no distinction in my line of sight normally to say where the step is. It’s like the kitchen sits on a small platform about 2 inches above the rest of the room (don’t ask …I know! )
A wise friend said that I wouldn’t trip …I’d learn the spatial awareness very quickly to subconsciously know when to take that step very quickly. I just need to be careful for a few weeks.
And golly she was right. I was careful to start with, partly because of fear (I fall easily and have had broken bones), but now I don’t think about it…it’s like subconsciously my brain now knows where the small step is and moves my muscles accordingly…
So I am inclined to think that once a child is managing the stop at the top before descending of its own accord it’ already imprinting where the step down is and where the danger point is. Just like we as adults do when messing around in a distracted state near the top of the stairs.

He says he says that to 'drive home to me how important safety is'

In a calmer moment point out that by doing this in front of your child he is instilling his own anxiety, word by word.

Explain that yes, you made a mistake but you are an adult, as is he. You don't need to be spoken to like a child and he doesn't need to shout, drive anything, belabour a point, or take you to task. ESPECIALLY not in front of the child.

Ask him to work out a better way of raising such points. One that doesn't increas his blood pressure, your anger levels and still protects your child.

His stamping and bellowing is far worse for DC than the possibility of an accident. Also, him treating you as a disobedient employee who needs regular bollockings is unhealthy for both you and DC. Point this out to him, and let him know that his 'anxiety' needs to be addressed - it is not a free pass for him to bully his family. If he continues to tantrum like this you might want to consider getting rid of him.

Definitely anxiety issues which he's on the right track to pass on to the DC! We got rid of stair gates ages ago, my 2.5 year old fetches things for herself. If the same level of reaction is applied to any and all risks, when there's actually a high risk his reaction will have no effect! E.g. If you left a hot drink or an open bottle of bleach next to 2.5 year old he'd have a point, but a closed perfume bottle?! It could end a bit boy who cried wolf where no one takes him seriously. Or worse where the DC become totally risk averse.

You're both wrong imo.

@shrodingersvaccine

While no one should shout at any other person, you may want to consider that your DHs concerns are valid, and when the measures to allay such concerns are minor (like closing a stair gate behind you, or watching they can’t get a perfume bottle) it is SO frustrating to constantly have your partner be on the defensive about not doing those simple things.

When my partner fucks things up they do the same thing. Any excuse for it not being their fault/problem so I’m not allowed to be angry - this weekend I completely lost it as I asked them to bring some food in that had been left in the car. Notoriously bad at looking for things, so I described it clearly - green edged ziploc bag, containing perishable food, has probably slid under a seat so check there. They report that they have searched the car, to no avail.

A WEEK LATER I unlock the car and am hit by an unholy smell, which is of course the food, edge of the bag clearly sticking out from under the seat. When asked, they GENUINELY SAY ‘I didn’t know what a ziploc bag was, you should have been clearer, you can’t be angry at me’

Reader, I was in a public car park and I did not stay calm. I lost my mind. Paid SIX FIGURES AND YOU EXPECT ME TO BELIEVE YOU DONT KNOW WHAT A FUCKING ZIPLOC IS?! And even if you didn’t, you have a device in your pocket containing a simple way to search the internet, where all of the knowledge in the world is located so you could have fucking googled ‘ziploc bag’ and looked at a picture of one of you needed that reassurance?!

Now, this is only an example about a ziploc bag but they do they same with everything. This week alone it has been - candle lit uncovered under a wooden shelf (fire risk, how could they know that they say), threw a ball for my dog towards a blind cliff edge (dog will literally jump off a cliff for a ball, they didn’t see the cliff so not their fault), handed a toddler a plastic bag and then walked out of the room (obviously toddler shouldn’t have plastic bags, could suffocate, not only is this written on every plastic bag but it’s common sense - they say how could they have known that, I should have told them, I’m not allowed to be angry if they didn’t knooooow).

It’s exhausting to have to not only watch children and dogs but an adult to preempt anything they’re not doing or stupid things they may do. It’s exhausting to be the only one who thinks about consequences because you’re the only one who’s head isn’t stuck up their own arse. I’m going to leave him and this is the key reason why.

I am not an anxious person, but I can still see obvious risks like a kid falling down the steps or a dog running off an edge. Not taking those seriously doesn’t make you relaxed it makes you unobservant, and that’s infuriating for your partner who is concerned about very real outcomes of a neglect to undertake simple measures to allay risk. I’m allowed to be angry about my partner not doing that, and so is your DH. You not seeing the risk doesn’t mean it’s not there, and when outcomes can be serious you can’t make excuses for not keeping children safe.

Denial of messing up becuase you didn’t know what ziplock was🤷🏼‍♀️🤦‍♀️ Is his name Boris? Doesn’t know what a party is?🤣🤣🤣 🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️🤦‍♀️

The shouting isn't right but if your child can't manage the stairs yet there's a very real possibility that he could have fallen and done some real damage.

If there are regular instances where you're putting your child at risk, like with the perfume, I can see how he could get frustrated.

His shouting is far more dangerous than leaving a gate open with a 2.5 year old. We never had them past 18 months and couldn't wait to get rid of them.

I wouldn't tolerate that around my DC.

His "anxiety" isn't a stick that he can beat you with.

There are appropriate ways of bringing these things up. My and my DH have very different attitudes towards risk, but we talk to each other like adults instead of shouting, blaming and berating. Obviously people aren't perfect but it sounds like this sort of behaviour by your DH isn't a one-off, it's part of an ongoing pattern of behaviour that he needs to sort out. You need to put down some boundaries with him, e.g. if you have a problem with something I've done, talk to me calmly about it and I will be open to what you say. It's normal to be defensive if someone is over-reacting/shouting/attacking you.

What was your DH doing whilst you were getting DC ready for nursery?