Separation stories: chapter 2

[lemonmeringue85]

@freeatlast2021 I finally did it, start a new thread that is.. not the other thing which I really should now start taking seriously. I absolutely do not want to be next Christmas, where I was this Christmas.
Thankyou for your post, never apologise for the lengthy ones!!

I have no idea how to post the link to this one on the old edition but will try... so, if you're seeing this then I didn't do a bad job!

Welcome to round 2

@DiscontinuedModelHusband

god, i'm so far behind where many of you are.

i love my DW - i always have, and always will.

but things are not right between us.

we've been together almost 25 years, married 20.
we've both had affairs (her physical, me emotional), and worked through the aftermath of them.

we have almost no affection between us - mainly due to DW not being very receptive to it. she never initiates anything more than the occasional hug (usually when she's struggling with other stuff). i can't remember the last time she kissed me.
we've had sex about 4 times in the last 18 months.

i stopped initiating several years ago, because i would constantly be knocked back, and it made me feel like shit. so now i just wait for her.

the last 6 months were ok, but earlier in december we had a big falling out due to a relatively small issue about my parents and our DD. DW was extremely rude and aggressive about how i dealt with the situation (my parents have long been a bone of contention). she was more vitriolic in her words to me than i have ever known before.

since then i have basically given up making any effort in terms of us as a couple. we still split chores evenly, still share a bed etc, but where i used to make an effort to sit with her and watch things on tv with her etc, i don't bother anymore.

given she's never really made any effort the other way - it's very noticeable.

we discuss it occasionally - mainly because she feels very lonely.
but as she won't take any responsibility for how things are, we don't get anywhere.

she's been ill this week, and i've tried to be as supportive as i can be. but when that's over, i'm not sure how things will be again.

her parents are miserable together - have been for the whole time i've known her. they've made it very clear they only stayed together for her benefit - a nice burden for her to carry!

as such she always said she'd never do that to her children.
but here we are.

i don't know what to do.

i would try to reconcile, and make a full effort to make things right.
i love her enough to try and instigate that.
but i don't know if she feels the same.
or if she'd be honest about wanting to split.
she'd say she would worry about the impact to the children - and i'd get that.
she wouldn't say that she's also terrified of how her mum would react - part of me suspects this is a bigger reason for her.

i have wondered for a long time whether she will wait until her parents are gone (both in their 80s), and the children have left home, and then tell me she wants out.

i don't know what to do.

Your wife needs therapy. Maybe you could use it too. You are the one who's going to have to change things here op. I don't think your wife is going to and you certainly can't sit around and wait for things to improve - they won't without taking action.

Change is scary but you just have to ride it and her through the best you can.

Agree that this sounds difficult @DiscontinuedModelHusband I think some form of therapy is needed but to save the marriage you'd both have to want to try and it would be likely very hard work. Or maybe just for you perhaps?

FWIW if the relationship is abusive then it needs to end, if not, then maybe you try all you can to save it if you wish or leave. It doesn't sound like it will change or improve if you do nothing.

Best of luck.

I’m in such a pickle here. I’m so cross with myself. Every time I have the talk with H I try to be really honest, saying I just don’t feel the same way any more etc, and I’m unhappy. But then I start to doubt myself because I get so upset. I feel like if I’m so upset then maybe I’m wrong? But maybe I’m just upset because it’s a horrible situation and because I don’t want to hurt anyone. What really upsets me though is that he just goes straight back to acting like everything is fine, trying to cuddle me, making future plans etc. The other day he came into the kitchen, lifted up his t shirt to show his bare chest and stomach, then put it back down and said “your turn”. I mean that’s weird at the best of times right? Never mind now. I just feel completely unheard. He’s just not listening to what I’m saying, or he is but he doesn’t think how I feel matters? I know I need to say something (again!) but I’m struggling to get my head together enough to go through the horrible conversation again, as I’m starting to feel like it doesn’t actually make any difference.

But why do I get so upset when it comes to the point of actually separating? I think it’s because I don’t want to be in this situation. Ultimately I do want to stay married, stay in our home etc, but I want that with a husband that I truly love. So i guess I do want to separate because of how I feel, but I don’t want to feel how I feel if you know what I mean? So I’m grieving the loss of the life I thought I would have. It can’t be anything else, because it passes very quickly and I’m back to just being irritated and squirming away from him every time he goes in for a cuddle! It’s not fair on him either all this, is it. I don’t want to give him false hope.

I really need to get my act together don’t I?

@HoneyDaze - I think that is probably it. Regardless of how you feel about your husband, it's still a sad situation and you are grieving for a life you thought you would have. It's understandable to feel upset. Can you try and move the conversation on from theory to practical stuff - asking him to move out or saying you're moving out. He sounds emotionally immature - the lifting up his top thing for example. I'd guess he just has no idea at all how to handle what you've told him. You probably need to show him you mean busines.

My husband and I had a bit more of a conversation this week after I told him we needed to have couples counseling. He said he had been looking at possible therapists - but then did his classic "I don't know what to do/how to do this" bit. He was saying he didn't know how to choose someone. I stood firm though and told him it was up to him. I know that might sound weird as it probably should be a joint process, but he offloads all decisions on to me. I want him to lead this one. He tried again to get me to pick it up by saying he'd just choose someone at random, but I didn't bite. I did explain I have done a lot of therapy already so have more faith in the process so I'm happy for him to find someone he's comfortable with.

Anyway - he then asked me if I even wanted to do it or if it was just a tick box exercise because I'd already decided it was over. I was honest to a point and said I wasn't sure and I thought we had to do it to know we'd tried but that I am not certain how it will turn out.

I asked him if he wanted to do it and he said yes, otherwise the only option was splitting up. Which I agreed with. We did talk about why we were staying together. He said because it was never his plan to break up! I did try to explain that I don't see that in itself as a reason to stay together. We both deserve to be happy, and if we're going to be happier apart, then that's the right decision.
I also said I was really worried for our boys. He's more worried about we don't do things all together. I said I'm more worried because it's a very bad relationship model.

So, after a long time, there is some progress I suppose. He's currently trying to be all cheery with me. I'm not really feeling it though, but am trying to be nice.

@HoneyDaze - you're getting upset lovely, because the normal you know is about to be flipped upside down. Been there done that.

Me and my ExH knew that we weren't working but neither of us said anything, just pretended (even though we were arguing every day or ignoring each other)

So I planned everything with my parents and got me and my little boy out. We've been gone almost three months now.... and that 'upset' feeling only lasted me 3 weeks!

Maybe try and different tactic? Pack his bags for him? 😂

An update- DW and I have agreed to try Relate. She is at the position of not wanting to separate but things must improve and I am more if they can't improve we should separate but after some of the hardest conversations I've ever had over the last few days and weekend we are finding common ground - and being kinder to each other. Separate rooms still and no plans to move back.

We got to Relate as we agreed nothing would be off the table - prior to that it seemed it would be what I had to change and not so much DW. I agree that I have not been an easy person to live with and I did cheat (drunken kiss with a person I never saw again which was still an awful thing to have done). But DWs upbringing (and mine) influence how we react and respond to things and I'm hoping we can look at that kind of stuff with Relate as we both agree that there's more needed around why we do what we do as well as adding in date nights and changing how we speak to each other.

The whole thing is very exhausting though- not helped by some other people around us - although my friends have been lovely.

Hi everyone. I've been following the previous thread, and bookmarked this one, although I haven't actually read most of it yet. I'll go back and read it.

I just wanted to mark this place, because tonight DH and I agreed that we should part company. We just fundamentally disagree on so many things. We've tried for so long, but there comes a point where you just have to accept that you're flogging a dead horse.

I think he would have carried on in misery until the end of time, so it's largely me instigating the split, but he didn't disagree with anything I said.

We have to think now about what we'll do about the house etc. We won't tell the kids yet, until we have some kind of a plan. H has friends away that he hasn't seen since covid started, so it will be a good opportunity for him to take a break and get some perspective and maybe some solutions.

I'm going to bed now, but I'll check in tomorrow.

@Nepenthe - welcome! It's been a bit quiet in here recently but I'm sure there are people lurking.

Amazingly well done in having the conversation(s) - this can be the hardest part just even starting and also getting to an agreed position. Keep the lines of communication open and hopefully you can have an amicable split which I think is so much easier for the DC. A break after those intense conversations also sounds like a good idea but I hope his friends don't start putting unhelpful thoughts in his head.

Take a breath, you've done one of the hardest bits and don't worry if sometimes it feels like you have a few steps back. You will get to the right outcome I'm sure.

We are 7 months living apart and I'm about to embark on a huge refurb. ExH picked up one of the kitchen floor samples and said 'urgh, you're not getting this are you'? I said 'yes' . One of the things we always used to disagree on was decor and it stopped me even suggesting stuff which I can now freely do!! Disagreeing is exhausting so I think you'll find being apart liberating!

@Nepenthe - welcome!

I'm still lurking about here and there.

I've been living apart from ExH for almost five months now.
Filed for divorce end of Dec. ExH agreed with the papers this week just gone. Just applied for decree nisi and awaiting to hear about a date to be read. Hopefully it's granted and then I'm free!

How is everyone else getting on? X

@SummerSazz Thank you. Oh god, the times we've fallen out over decorating! It's like he's determined for the house to look shit! We were talking about doing the lounge a couple of weeks ago, and he proposed a dado rail. Do people even still have those?

I don't think his friends will plant unpleasant seeds in his mind. He has known them longer than he's known me, they have almost a fraternal relationship. He doesn't have many friends really, a few lads he bumps into if he goes out for a pint now and again, but no one that he would really talk to. He used to live and work with two of these friends and their mum, when he worked on their farm, and they are like his surrogate family. I'll be glad of a few days without him, and I think it will be good for him too.

Hello @Nepenthe! Sorry you’ve found yourself reason to join the thread though. It has been quiet - I kind of hope that no news is good news and everyone is doing ok! But I’m still in the same position, feeling as frustrated as ever and despite several conversations still feeling completely unheard. I know I need to be brave and completely shut it down, for his sake as well as mine.

It’s almost like I’m waiting for something to happen to force it but I don’t know what. But at the end of the day we don’t need permission to do this. I’m just still so full of fear and guilt when I think about ending it completely. But then the feelings of fear and guilt are there when I think about staying as well, just in a different way!

We’re all at different stages in our journeys and I’m so inspired by those who are further ahead and who have taken control of their situations. I think this weekend might be the one for another conversation, but this time with a plan of action and hopefully a clearer outcome, that won’t mean that in a few days we’ll be back to him trying to hump me when I bend down to put a wash on!!

Wish me luck!!

@OneGlamMama Thank you for the welcome, sorry I missed you last night, we must have x-posted.

@HoneyDaze I know that feeling of waiting for something to force it. For me, that thing was his attitude to Covid over the last few weeks. DD caught it and was poorly for a day or two, during which she was glued to my side, so there was no way I was escaping it. I was positive but totally asymptomatic, but he was refusing to test, saying he was fine. He grudgingly did one or two LFTs, and I asked him straight out, if he got it but was asymptomatic, would he isolate? He said he didn't see the need, as he works alone. He felt that I should be going out and about and carrying on as normal. I could tell it frustrated the hell out of him that I insisted on following the guidance, and he couldn't say a damn thing about it. He just really has been a bit of a twat about it, and it killed any last lingering shred of respect I had for him.

So, we had the conversation last night, about how we are just on totally different pages about so many things, and that neither of us is happy, and we're just making each other miserable by staying together. He didn't dispute anything I said, in fact he said it's been on the cards for a good while. So from that point of view, I'm glad that we do feel the same, and hopefully we'll be able to keep it all civilised, and try to both be good parents, individually.

I know there will be hard times ahead, telling the kids etc, but at least the ball is rolling now. I'm 50% dreading the next few weeks, but 50% so excited about getting a new place, decorating it how I want, making it lovely. I'm browsing lovely new bedding sets

I’ve been lurking but not posting. I am at the point of telling my H in our counselling session on Monday that I think it’s best we separate. We’ve been in counselling since November but just as @HoneyDaze feeling completely unheard. The counselling has reminded me of a lot of things I feel resentful about but my H keeps playing the victim and can’t understand why ‘I’m doing this to him and the children’.

I feel absolutely awful about the kids, especially after everything they’ve been through with the pandemic. But I see no other solution.

Hi all, I was on the last thread but haven't updated since. Broke up with partner in Oct, and it's been up and down since. We have 2 young dc together who have stayed with me, he moved out to his sisters two hours away, close to his work. Initially he cycled through the stages of grief essentially, sad, angry and then landed on hopeful that we'd get back together.

In the first few months we met halfway EOW with the kids, and then after a few weeks where his nephew wasn't well he started coming up midweek and at weekends instead, which was a tad awkward for us but the kids loved it so I didn't mind, knowing it was only until he got his new place 10 mins away at the end of Feb. But 2 weeks ago he reverted back to a place of anger, and where before we had reached a place of understanding that the breakup was both our faults, now he's gone back to blaming me. He ignores me in person which I absolutely hate, especially as it is in front of the children who don't know what is happening but are very perceptive, and sends sarcastic replies to my messages.

I understand why he's angry, especially because he has such a different perception of our relationship, and also as the one who did the breaking up I realise its easier for me to come to terms with. But it's so frustrating, and irritating and off putting. I am not engaging in the arguments, and am ignoring the shitty replies, choosing to set my boundaries and ask for them to be respected. He has always had a "me" mentality, thinking primarily of himself, and then everyone else thereafter, so it's no shock to me that he feels very comfortable in the "poor me/victim" camp. It's just frustrating that I left the relationship because I didn't want to parent him anymore, and yet here I am parenting him through the breakup... Grr!
Hoping things will settle once he gets his place nearby at the end of the month and we can establish a routine with the kids.

Most days I feel happier than I was, and love being able to think about me for a change. But it's also a path filled with lots of anxiety, primarily around finances, logistics etc. I don't want to get back with him though, and haven't thought that, which is telling. Good luck to everyone going through this or similar. It's tough, but I've also put myself first in pursuing this decision, and that's liberating.

@Mummsnett I can identify with the victim mentality and parenting. In fact, one of my main worries re separating is about how HE will cope! He is very self centred and can’t understand why I’m ‘doing this to him and the children’, taking no responsibility for any of the failings in our relationship. It’s going to be a rough ride re finances and kids but I do feel it will be worth it. Staying does not feel like an option anymore.

I am so confused by all of this. I've been reading about abusers in Why Does He Do That as I think I may be abusive. Some of it rings true for me, I am self centred and have some nasty narcissist traits, but also I see traits in DW. She is a scoffer and mocker, will repeat back what I've said in an 'impersonating" voice, block me from leaving a room. Maybe we abuse each other or maybe I'm just an abuser who sees others' reasonable defensive behaviour as them abusing me?

We got back together in the last week , even had sex after years of nothing. I struggled, the desire was there but faded when PIV was attempted. DW has taken this very badly and gone over everything I said about it to find my 'hidden' and 'true' feelings about it. I'm very confused, DW had said that sex was no longer of any importance to her and now it seems to be. she denies it's to 'keep' me but she doesn't want us to spilt. I feel like I've not got enthusiastic consent which is why I can't.

Me not leaving us her constant position more or less although a few months ago she was saying if we had money we should buy a new house but have separate rooms. I get a lot of mixed messages and for the past week we have talked a lot but it is always about my faults and my past infidelity (the drunken kiss). If I say "but you also do..." I'm usually scoffed at and told I can't own what I do and hate being criticised. We seemed to have a breakthrough yesterday and DW agreed the hours of talking hadn't addressed much of anything about her but within minutes we were back to it being my fault. Maybe it is all my fault and I should stay and do what she wants because I cheated?

Right now I wish I'd never had a relationship with anyone, I hear about others who talk about their partner as their best friend and have mutual trust and respect. Im sure it can be like that but then DW will tell me all marriages have lots of conflict and then within a few sentences tell me that we never had what she wanted or thought we would have/I would be when we began our own affair. Although she won't own that we had an affair. Her version of events is very different from mine, even down to actual events. One of us seems to have false memories about lots of stuff and I have no idea who that is.

We still wait for relate sessions after the assessment. Today I want to walk away as I think we'd both be happier but DW says if we split up she'll never be happy again and will just become a recluse. It is true that I have more friends. That is a huge bone of contention. Most are female and former colleagues (I work in a female dominated profession) and DW pretty much says they all 'adore' me and that I have them 'lined up' to pick her replacement from. DW has a very dim view of women in general, that most will cheat and go after married men. Again I come away from our conversation thinking maybe she is right about me and I am just the narcissist who cannot be without the attention of others. That I have manipulated people into liking me for my own abusive ends.

God this reads as so pathetic, I really hate myself today - but maybe that's me playing the victim? I genuinely don't know.

If you read this far, thank you. I needed to write some of it down after yesterday. If you are struggling with your life, I wish you well right now.

@Notsuchaniceguy Sorry to hear that you are having a down day, not sure I can offer much advice. Please don’t think that you are to blame for everything, of course nobody is perfect, but your wife plays her part in all of this too. From what I’ve read there seems to be a bit of emotional blackmail from her “if you split she’ll never be happy again” etc., that and her “turning into a recluse”, is she saying this to make you feel guilty?
I don’t think you should be so hard on yourself, you sound quite self aware to me, which can only be a good thing. I don’t think narcissistic people have that insight into their personalities at all.
Anyway, stay strong, tomorrow is another day. Wishing you all the best and all the other posters on this thread.

Hello all and welcome to the new friends. I have been reading all your posts but did not feel like replying until today. Not sure why. Generally speaking I am well, but so much has been happening lately that I fell it all wore me down. I had Covid, in the beginning of January and I feel lack of energy every since. I changed my user name too from @freeatlast2021 to @movingon2022 to have a fresh start.

It literally breaks my heart to read all your posts. Reading them anyone can see that you are some amazing people, loving and caring, who are very, very sad and unhappy and would like to be happy again but do not want to hurt anyone in the process and instead you would rather be miserable for the rest of your lives. But, guess what, no you should not be miserable for the rest of your life, you should do everything you can to change the situation so that you can be happy and content yet again.

Reading your posts I recognize my self just a few months ago. All the same thoughts, worries, dilemmas. As someone who has crossed to another side this is what I would like to share with you:

1. you are not happy in your relationship-- yes, you should do something about it
2. you mostly blame yourselves for it-- do not forget, it takes two to tango
3. feel that you have to sacrifice for the sake of the marriage, for the sake of the kids—no, you do not have to sacrifice anything for anyone. This is your life and it is your responsibility to make the best of it. You will still love and take care of your kids, just like you always did, but you will not live with their mom/dad anymore and that really is all the difference.
4. feel that you need your partners approval in moving things forward or otherwise you should not be doing it--wrong, you do not need their approval. If you are not happy and want to end the marriage you do not need your partners approval or a blessing, in fact you quite possibly will not be getting either, ever. Still does not mean that you should not be moving forward
5. you try to explain the situation to them but they do not get it and you again blame yourselves for not being clear enough--wrong again, they do not “get it” because they do not want to get it. They may be hurt, disappointed, afraid, do not want to be inconvenienced, or perhaps they are mean, controlling narcissists, but it is not your fault that they do not understand what you are saying. By all means you should try to talk to them and explain, but if they are not willing to listen, you should move on, regardless of what they think or feel about it.
6. you are very unhappy but feel like it is somehow your fault, you have this “amazing” partner but it does not seem to be enough for you--again, it takes two to tango. I am not saying that nothing is your fault, I am saying the fault is shared, and they should take responsibility for their part. It seems that in many occasions they do not, this does not change the fact that they are guilty at least as much as you are for the breakage of this union
7. worried that divorce will destroy your kid’s world, their future-- kids are different and some do take divorce harder than others, but most of the time, they make it just fine. Most important thing it seems is that you are ok, that you are not catastrophizing the situation, that you are not looking at divorce as the “end of the world” thing. Nothing is destroyed or broken. The marriage has run its course and you are moving on a different path from your partner, that is all and that is how you should present it to you kids. They will be ok.
8. you are worried that divorce will destroy your partners, that they will not be able to “make it”, they will fall ill, perhaps die--perhaps they will, but they are adults and should be dealing with this on their own. You are not responsible for their feelings or their actions.

Sorry for the loooooong post. Perhaps this is why I have not posted much, I was getting ready to post something like this for a long time. I can never express my self in few words, sorry. Sending you my thoughts and my love from far away. Stay strong and remember, you deserve to be happy!

@movingon2022 thank you for the update. A lot of this rings true for me. I told my H that I want to separate. The biggest hurdle will be our living arrangements and the children. Feeling very worried about both.

Just an update from me. I secured a house which will be ready early March. I told my H yesterday as I was worrying about upcoming things - Valentine's Day/a night away he had booked.

It's been horrific. I feel utterly sick. He think I'm having a mid life crisis. He says I'm completely to blame and I've put no effort in whatsoever. He has also said he would be better off dead and is thinking of taking his own life. He said I'm ruining the kids lives and they will be scarred forever.

I can't just stay here and be miserable for the rest of my life but I feel so awful. I don't want him to be miserable either. How can we get through the next few weeks?

I decided I would move out of the family home with the kids since it was my decision and to try to make the impact on him a little lessened but he says that's worse. I just don't know what to think.

@brightorbleakfuture I’m sorry you’re going through this, it sounds awful.

You’ve done so well to have the conversation that so many of us are struggling to have. Don’t be deterred, your DH’s reaction is unfair. Of course this is not all your fault. You feel a certain way, no doubt in part due to some of his actions. His response highlights the fact that he certainly has some emotional flaws.

You’ve made clear what you want, stick to your guns. Your children will not be scarred for life, and he needs to understand that it is both of your reactions to this that will determine the level of impact on them. If you are both able to put the children first, the impact does not need to be catastrophic.

Things may seem insurmountable at the moment, but it will get better. I suspect he is in some shock and will need some time to process things. The best thing you can do for him is be clear and honest. Staying because he is emotionally blackmailing you into it would do him as much as a disservice as it would you.

Take all the support you can irl, and keep going.

Keep posting, we’re here for you 💐

Agree with pp, his happiness is not your responsibility. He is a fully grown adult, and has to accept that. He's not your child, nor do you have to stay to keep him happy. Forcing you to stay wouldn't make anyone happy. Children will be fine, and they will take their lead from how you both react. Stick with your decision and trust that time is a healer.

Oh goodness @brightorbleakfuture this sounds so tough. He will need some time to get his head around things but what he is saying is obviously completely unfair and not true. You have a right to be happy, and you have been incredibly brave in being honest with him. Stay true to yourself. Things will get better!

Sending lots of love. You have made a huge step forward in having the conversation. Xx

Well it’s done. Again. But properly this time! We’ve had another talk and it was much more focussed on how we move forward separately, rather than doing what we’ve done before, which is me saying how I feel (that I just don’t feel the same and feel that we’re just living as housemates) and then him pretending it didn’t happen and life carrying on as normal. But this is it now, we have agreed to separate and will stay in our home for a little while as our daughter has big exams coming up and we don’t want to unsettle her with a move. But we’ll have separate bedrooms. We’ll tell the DC next week when they are off school as they’ll notice when we are in different rooms. We’re getting on well though, he’s respecting boundaries now and he has also taken his wedding ring off. We both said we want to be good friends going forward and I really hope we can do that.

I feel such a huge sense of relief now things have progressed! But still very sad at the same time as this isn’t what I had pictured happening all those years ago when we got married.

Now I have to shop for some furniture for my new bedroom!