“When the time is right”

[Nannyplum5]

Is all DP says when I ask him about marriage. When will the time ever be right after 9 years? Obviously haven’t had a proposal which does sting a bit as I always think if he really wanted to marry me then he’d have asked. I’ve also suggested to him about just setting a date which he answers with “when the time is right”Last night his friend phoned him and told him he’d just got engaged. After coming off the phone I asked him if he thinks we’ll ever get married. His answer was “probably” I can’t lie, marriage means a lot to me and it hurts knowing that by the sounds of it he doesn’t want to. Why would he stay with me for 9 years if he doesn’t want to marry me? I know I can’t force him to get married but I’m just left wondering why I’m not good enough to marry. It’s really getting me down

Waterbottle My mum was same (she had a career) and I teach teen daughter same - career, own monies. But life happens. Women are usually better to have protection of marriage in place. I had my baby as a fit & healthy 30 year old. Pregnancy triggered a serious condition that significantly impacted my life and ability to work full time for 9 years plus my baby was born with a physical disability missed on scan. I’m only working full time 15 years later. Still with DH but my earning capacity and pension were affected in a way I’d never anticipated when pregnant. If we had split I’d definitely have been better off financially due to marriage.

With these types, you can pretty much guarantee that when they meet someone they do want to marry, they can't do it fast enough

Yep!

Friend of mine (and yes I did take him to task on it when it all happened)

Lived with someone for 18 years, they had a child together plus she had a child as a teen before him, their child was planned but he wouldn't marry her. When they eventually split due to "growing apart" he met and married someone else within 12 months! They had a child within 2 years and he is VERY different with her than he was with previous partner.

When I discussed with him he admitted he never truly felt previous partner was a permanent person - hence no marriage - but he'd never been that honest with her

Men like this are shits!

@lisaandalan a lot of the "only a piece of paper" types also tend to be the ones that VERY quickly marry the next woman they're with - cos they were lying!

It's NOT just a piece of paper it's a legally binding contract anyway

If someone does think it's only a piece of paper and unimportant/doesn't change their lives but it's important to their partner they're supposed to love them why WOULDN'T they do it? There's no excuse is there?

Op what he said about 40's is just plain stupid! I reckon he's hoping with that to also prevent the planning and having of children. He is wasting your time AND your fertility don't let him!

Do not get pregnant under the illusion this is a commitment - it's not! In uk it's FAR too easy for fathers to walk away without even paying cm

I suspect that the moment he senses his cosy life will be disrupted he will panic and promise and propose.

I agree also agree it's too little too late

@RedRobyn2021 it's perfectly possible to have a beautiful wedding that isn't big or expensive he's fobbing you off! Sad that you waited until after baby to consider this an issue? Was baby a "consolation prize" as far as he's concerned? (Not saying I think so or that a baby is but this type of man can do)

I sincerely hope you are still working ft

He says he worries about the cost of a ring and he thinks I won't want to be engaged long

Which as with op tells you all you need to know! My engagement ring was £50! No less meaningful or beautiful to me as a result (we were skint!)

Wedding rings are available for £20!

It's entirely possible to get married for about £200-300

Financially, I would be fine should he up and leave.

Glad to hear that. But it's not just if this happens with children to consider, it's also much better if you're married if he becomes incapacitated or even dies. Especially if your home is in his name solely

Public proposals also seem to be something this type does - to pressure a yes as they become aware that a no is by this point more likely! That one backfired on a guy I know who got a VERY public (sm) and very clear "no and I'm leaving you"

He took great umbrage only for pretty much all HIS family and friends saying "not surprised you deserved it"

@WaterBottle123 why do you think that? There are many advantages for both parties in various scenarios even if you divorce ultimately it's worth having been married especially with children

[quote Nannyplum5]@timeisnotaline So true. Exactly how I’m feeling. I also find it really unattractive for some reason. The relationship was great at the beginning, I never thought I’d be in this situation with him[/quote]
But you are.

Deal with it.

Kindly, he has told you his truth.

If you accept it, he has every right to laugh at you, and believe he will be.

You can't expect to be respected when you accept such awful treatment.

You are at a crossroads OP.

Accept this bullshit, or show yourself and him that you have greater value/respect than he believes.

If you accept this, well then you really can't be surprised at the future you have signed up for.

@Graphista

No, there are advantages to protecting your own income and share of property via deed of trust. Marriage makes women less likely to do these things, take on more 'wife work' and generally advantages men.

It's ONLY beneficial for SAHMs and in the todays climate being a SAHM is incredibly risky as marriage doesn't protect your earning potential, only means you get a share of assets.

Protect yourself, never rely on a man. Marriage is a false comforter

@WaterBottle123 you're wrong I'm afraid. Marriage makes an awful lot of things much easier when the relationship ends - even if the ending is through death rather than separation and sadly there IS still a stigma to having children unmarried especially after you split

It's much less overt than it used to be but it still exists especially in "officialdom"

Eg

Taking kids on holiday after split
Claiming benefits
Inheritance tax (I know doesn't apply to all)
Bereavement Benefits
How schools, Drs etc treat you

I was married to ex sister wasn't married to hers but they were together longer and had more dc, yet I've witnessed on many occasions her and other unmarried mums being treated APPALLINGLY by "officials"

When I first had to claim benefits after split I went in council offices to get housing benefit claim form and the 12 year old looking receptionist gave me the FILTHIEST look and most disgusting attitude UNTIL she learned I had been married to the father - then she did a volte face!

Atrocious behaviour!

I've seen that time and again since my own split I'm ashamed to say I didn't notice before though I'm sure I witnessed then too - in fact yes I did a friend I know married and had first child very young and looked younger than she was too, she often got treated like a promiscuous idiot until they learned she was married!

People are very judgmental and scornful of single mums still generally they're even worse to unmarried mums and it's hardly surprising under a Tory govt that govt depts are the worst for this

@Graphista

So, by marrying you're giving in to the prejudice! Whereas really we should stay unmarried and fight the stigma against unmarried women rather than doing what the patriarchy and the women who support the patriarchy want us to do.

@WaterBottle123 single mums have it hard enough without having to battle societal norms too!

The patriarchy at some point needs to police itself!

@Graphista

As a single mum I consider it my absolute duty to fight the patriarchy for my daughters.

It's empowering, not hard,

Working full time and parenting is hard, Fixing the teacher with an icy stare when she tries any single mum shaming is fun.

It's a mindset thing. Marriage exists for the purposes of men and we have to stop indulging them in it

[quote WaterBottle123]@Dixiechickonhols

Exactly! Marriage lulls women into a false sense of security and they bad decisions to compromise their earnings.

My daughters are taught never marry and never ever rely on a man financially. And if you out earn him DEFINITELY don't marry.

[/quote]
This would be a stronger argument if unmarried women weren't doing these things too. What actually happens is that women who are in relationships tend to do these things regardless, and unmarried women aren't any richer for it either. So the question is simply whether they do so with the patchy legal and financial protections of marriage or without even that.

I understand the outearn, get yours argument etc. It's nice on paper, and it works for some women. We quite clearly don't live in a society where it's generally applicable, though, and it's not as simple as just opting to do it.

@VikingOnTheFridge

But if we all take that attitude nothing will change. We can't be passive.

Is it your house OP? I would be asking him to go now.

[quote WaterBottle123]@VikingOnTheFridge

But if we all take that attitude nothing will change. We can't be passive.[/quote]
Deluding ourselves that doing what you suggest here is a viable option for all women in a capitalist system won't change shit. Neither will the pretence that it's marriage rather than relationships and children that leads women to earn less.

No, it's men that cause women to earn less.

Hence we need to stop marrying them and stop having children with them unless they do 50/50. Very few women insist on this. They just go part time and carrying on having children

No, it's children. Or even just being thought of as likely to have children actually: childfree women don't get out of it either.

The reason we know this is because there's no evidence that women who have children without a man involved earn any more than other women who have children.

I'd say all depends if you're otherwise happy in your relationship. Is the marriage thing the only (major) sticking point? I know couples where women were pushing to get married, the blokes simply refused for years (10 or more!) then suddenly changed their minds and set the dates asap. I know it's not fair it's his decision but you just have to weigh up what's really important here. Unfortunately there's no compromise here... Good luck!

Well he has told you that he won’t marry you, and laughed at you. It’s your time you’re wasting

Hope you're ok OP, did you boot him out or have you left it for now?

Yes I’d have the ick too. What a nasty cruel man.

Start planning your new future OP. We are all behind you.

OP, When I first read your post, I thought no there will be no wedding here after nine years. Then you mentioned your ages and I thought well the nine years isn’t too bad since you were barely out of your teens at the start of the nine years. But it really doesn’t look like marriage is on the cards here at all and he has belittled and mocked you for wanting to get married. Call it a day and don’t give him your best (fertile) years.