Constructive help understanding this please

[Franklyfrost]

I’d really like some advice, perspective and practical suggestions. It’s me, my dp, my 4 dc, 11, 9, 5 and 3. Dc 11 and dc 9 are exdh’s, dc 5 and 3 are dp’s.

Back story:
Dc 11 is lovely and can be very endearing and interesting. He is also pubescent, plus has SEN, so there’s no denying he often is hard work to be around. Dp and Ds 11 don’t have a good relationship- a vicious circle of them being rude to each other, I wish my dp would stop and treat ds 11 more like a child who needs love rather than an irritation. If dp made the effort to not engage in conflict and tried to develop a connection I’m sure ds 11’s behaviour toward him would improve. Dp knows this but just wants to be obeyed by ds 11.

Every 4 months or so my partner has grabbed or shoved ds. I’ve told him it’s unacceptable. He says he won’t do it again. As ds 11 is getting older- he’s very tall for an 11 year old, wears age 14 clothes- it’s become more shocking and the last time dp grabbed him, which was this summer, I really explained at length how it was not okay for my dp to grab or shove or drag ds 11 or dc 9 (he’s done it a few times but less with dc 9).

Yesterday morning dp grabbed ds 11, lifted him and in doing so banged his head against a piece of furniture. Ds 11 had accidentally hurt ds 5 while playing with him- enough to make ds 5 cry for a few seconds but nothing serious. Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth. I came into the room because of all the shouting- asked what had happened, checked with the dc and then went to tell dp that he couldn’t behave like that. Dp then started screaming at me, yelled at the top of his voice and then left the room. He came back from work that evening and refused to talk to me.

When I came to bed I said we had to discuss what had happened. He repeated much the same stuff he yelled in the morning: that ds 11 had kicked dc 5, which he had but dp didn’t mention the fact that he only kicked him lightly by accident while playing. Dp said lots about how I should support him and be in his side, that it was my fault for not telling him how what to do with dc 11 (I have explained many techniques, provided literature and we even did 12 weeks of cbt as part of the NHS well-being treatment for ds 11). He listed all my parenting fails and I pointed out none of them involved violence and they were all followed with an apology and an explanation. When I said he couldn’t touch my children dp replied well we live together so that’s not very practical- when it was obvious I meant not touch my children in anger or with violence. I told him I wanted an apology, that he needed to say sorry to ds 11 and I went to sleep on the sofa. Dp did apologise to ds 11, although it was ‘I’m sorry you got hurt’ rather than ‘I’m sorry I hurt you’. I didn’t hear any of the rest of the apology but I expect it was along the lines of ‘you hurt dc 5 and didn’t move when I asked so I had to move you’.

He messaged me during the day today and said ‘I’m sorry’ to which I replied ‘why are you sorry? I would like to know that you understand why your behaviour was so upsetting. You overstepped a clear boundary which you had previously agreed to. The subsequent aggression and minimising doesn’t assure me that you understand that boundary and won’t do the same thing again. I love you and want us to be okay. You made a mistake and you can make it better. Try this:
I apologise for ……..
I did it because …….
I wish I hadn’t done it because …..
In future I will…..
X
I’m not trying to be bossy but to explain clearly what would help me feel better.’
He didn’t reply or even open the message, came home from work and gave me the silent treatment again. What is going on? He lost his temper and acted badly why won’t he apologise? Am I being unreasonable? I’ve been working really hard to make our relationship better but I can’t let this slide. Advice please. I won’t be ltb for a few years as I am doing a vocational degree which will allow me to support myself and the children independently down the line. For me having dp as a stepfather for a few years is better than living in poverty for your whole childhood. Dp acts like he can’t see what he did or why it’s wrong. He doesn’t even seem to know he lost his temper. What do I do? Am in being a bitch or over reacting? How do I protect my kids and get dp see that he cannot shove or grab my kids. I don’t understand how he thinks it could be okay. Is it okay? He’s not perfect but I don’t think he’s an idiot or a monster despite evidence to the contrary. And, I love him.

A lot of this post has been about dp because my question is about dp’s behaviour but my son’s well being is the priority here. Any help in understanding or navigating this situation much appreciated. And sorry this is so long…

As much as you don't want to hear it the only answer is to LTB. Your child is being abused and he isn't going to change because he believes he has the right to treat your DS in this way, nothing you say to him will change that fact.

He's physically grabbing and shoving your 11 year old child who was actually injured this time. He isn't taking responsibility or properly apologising, instead giving you the silent treatment. I don't think you grasp how unacceptable this is. Do you want your son growing up thinking abusive behaviour is the norm?

It’s certainly wrong to hurt a child or be aggressive toward them but I don’t think it’s classified as abuse by the law. My children all know it’s not okay for any adult to be violent toward them and I’ve discussed what happened with the older two kids. It does feel awful. Why can’t dp just not touch them? Or at least acknowledge he was wrong?

You are letting him abuse your child. This doesn't seem like the first time either. You are complicit in this.

Anyone that harmed my child the way your DP has would only do it once. You are allowing him to continue to abuse your son. Disgusting.

Your DSes will remember how you didn't protrct him, but pandered to your DPs abuse and tantrums. Is that what you want for your children?

I think growing up poor is far better than growing up with an aggressive stepdad. I would take steps to end the relationship. Sorry OP.

@Franklyfrost it is illegal to assault anyone, in particular a child due to their vulnerability. I work in criminal justice. Would it be ok if he grabbed you and bashed your head against the furniture?? If you don't want to protect your child at least let him go and live with his father to keep him safe, you are teaching him that you won't protect him and it's ok to use violence against those less able to protect themselves. That poor boy must be so frightened in his own home.

Your DP doesn't see anything wrong with his behaviour. This is why he won't apologise or stop. He is not going to change.

I am a teacher and if your DS told me his stepdad had hurt him in anger I would 100% report it as a safeguarding concern.

I obviously am not privy to your finances, but I'm not sure your children will agree that suffering abuse at the hands of their stepdad is preferable to not having money.

Please get some decent advice and get rid of him. You sound almost apologetic for wanting him to apologise. This is a much bigger deal than you seem to understand. It's shocking behaviour.

I don’t think that using the word abuse is appropriate. It exaggerates what is happening and is disrespectful to those who have suffered actual abuse. To put this in perspective the met says that,

‘Examples of physical abuse are:
hitting, slapping, shaking or throwing
burning or scalding
drowning, suffocating or choking
pushing or kicking
inappropriate restraint or false imprisonment
using physical force to discipline
misusing medication
fabricating or inducing an illness or ill health

Signs and symptoms of physical abuse in children can include:
unexplained recurrent injuries, marks or burns
covering injuries with clothing even in hot weather
fear of physical contact and shrinking back if touched’

What we are discussing here is certainly not in that league.

This is abuse OP. He has done it again and again. Your poor son.
You cant let it slide because you know it is abuse but you don't want to face up to it.
And, you need him to leave to safeguard your son who is being abused.

@Franklyfrost

I don’t think that using the word abuse is appropriate. It exaggerates what is happening and is disrespectful to those who have suffered actual abuse. To put this in perspective the met says that,

‘Examples of physical abuse are:
hitting, slapping, shaking or throwing
burning or scalding
drowning, suffocating or choking
pushing or kicking
inappropriate restraint or false imprisonment
using physical force to discipline
misusing medication
fabricating or inducing an illness or ill health

Signs and symptoms of physical abuse in children can include:
unexplained recurrent injuries, marks or burns
covering injuries with clothing even in hot weather
fear of physical contact and shrinking back if touched’

What we are discussing here is certainly not in that league.

Wouldn't it come under 'using physical force to discipline'? Sorry @Franklyfrost I know these are difficult things to absorb sometimes but to an outsider this sounds abusive

@JurgensCakeBaby

I’m in the uk so if you’re inclined to, you’re free to hit your kids so long as it doesn’t leave a mark/ lasting physical damage. Not something I’d advocate obviously.

So you've made a point of saying how you feel matters should be dealt with towards your children by your partner?

Despite him telling you he won't treat your children in certain ways you've agreed, he continues to treat them badly?

He's hurt your Son, he's yelled at you, he's shown little remorse for his behaviour towards your children or you?

He's now sulking because he's been told to stop being an abusive bully?

Your response to all this is you're kids are going to have to put up with this and any other crap, you too, because you won't leave anyway, as it'll disrupt your degree?

Hmmm, well he's going to carry on being a bully, you'll continue to stick with your partner even if he treats your kids like crap, and you'll just carry on being tip toeing around it and do your degree.

Things are going to get worse before you finish your degree!
You've discussed these issues, you've looked at getting advice, and he's paid no notice to that, so this will just go on, and on until one day he'll push your Son too far and your Son will either end up bopping your partner, or your partner will hurt your son and agencies will become involved

Bottom line is your children didn't ask to go into this relationship, they've been taken into it by you!

Most people would put the safety, and well-being of their children first... You have said this isn't an option for you, as you're focusing on your degree.

I think when your older children reach an age where they can be away from your home for any reason, they'll take it. When they're old enough they'll leave home, and you'll see very little of them. They'll have memories of being bullied and hurt by your partner, and of seeing you yelled at and doing nothing other than to keep asking for half-hearted apologies and acting like a doormat.

Your younger children will grow up with issues, and on the whole your home will be a miserable place. If nurseries/ schools etc notice things aren't right, they'll step in. You may have decisions made for you then so your degree may not see completion. You could always leave and put your children first? Complete your degree as an independent woman who has done right by her kids.

I guess which ever of those paths you pick will show who you value and have the most loyalty towards.

Relationships can come and go, but your children will always be there.

I think it would be tragic if you let him bully your ds11 for another few years. He will potentially be damaged for life.

I feel so sad for your son. Don't know think it's possible that your son feels unsafe around your partner? How can he trust this man not to shove him when he's angry with him?
How can he trust you to keep him safe while you're allowing your partner to do this to him?

Sorry OP, you clearly don't want to hear it but the best thing for your son is to not be in a house with someone who is abusing them.
You say your kids know it's wrong but you're actually showing them that you think it's ok by not protecting them and keeping them in the situation where he is abused every six months or so.

Please protect him and keep your abusive partner away from him.

This is an adult male physically harming your 11 and 9 year old children and you are splitting hairs over correct phrasing? Are you that blind to his actions?

How can you love someone who hurts your children? I couldn't even look at someone who would even consider it, let alone profess to love them. Your poor kids.

"Child abused by Mother's Boyfriend"

So so common. You are a statistic.

Your children don't know it's not okay.

It's happened several times and nothing has changed.

What he is doing is "using physical force to discipline". Sure, he's not doing extreme abuse. But I wouldn't let anyone abuse my son, even a tiny bit.

Hes also shouting in your face and storming about the place. He sounds awful and like a terrible parent.

@Franklyfrost

It’s certainly wrong to hurt a child or be aggressive toward them but I don’t think it’s classified as abuse by the law. My children all know it’s not okay for any adult to be violent toward them and I’ve discussed what happened with the older two kids. It does feel awful. Why can’t dp just not touch them? Or at least acknowledge he was wrong?

Stop making excuses, your blood should be thicker than water, it's happened multiple times, You're running a gauntlet, trying to save a blended family over a future relationship with your son, moreover your other children will be aware of and affected by this,

@Franklyfrost WOW. Your poor DS, firstly for being abused by his stepfather, secondly for his Mother allowing it.

@Franklyfrost I lead a multi agency team including police and social workers, I'd be instructing my officers to make a children's services referral for the incident you have described. He grabbed an eleven year old and bashed his head on furniture, that's not a light tap on the bottom of a toddler. You also seen unable to safeguard your children.

When my children were little, say age 4 and under, and they were out of control and not listening to a verbal instruction, for example: ‘please stop smearing paint over the walls’ or ‘please get in the car now’ I’d pick them up and move them. I don’t think that’s abuse. I don’t think it should ever be done in anger, although I probably have done it in anger. I don’t think it’s appropriate for older children whereas dp doesn’t seem to get that.

I’m interested that everyone on here is so appalled. Thanks for sharing your view points, it helps.

@Franklyfrost

I don’t think that using the word abuse is appropriate. It exaggerates what is happening and is disrespectful to those who have suffered actual abuse. To put this in perspective the met says that,

‘Examples of physical abuse are:
hitting, slapping, shaking or throwing
burning or scalding
drowning, suffocating or choking
pushing or kicking
inappropriate restraint or false imprisonment
using physical force to discipline
misusing medication
fabricating or inducing an illness or ill health

Signs and symptoms of physical abuse in children can include:
unexplained recurrent injuries, marks or burns
covering injuries with clothing even in hot weather
fear of physical contact and shrinking back if touched’

What we are discussing here is certainly not in that league.

Abuse is not just physical, it has many guises... Emotional, Psychological, Physical is definitely taking place in your home. You are actually making excuses for your partner's disgusting behaviour, you're minimising it as though it's no big deal. You're as bad as each other.

@Franklyfrost

I don’t think that using the word abuse is appropriate. It exaggerates what is happening and is disrespectful to those who have suffered actual abuse. To put this in perspective the met says that,

‘Examples of physical abuse are:
hitting, slapping, shaking or throwing
burning or scalding
drowning, suffocating or choking
pushing or kicking
inappropriate restraint or false imprisonment
using physical force to discipline
misusing medication
fabricating or inducing an illness or ill health

Signs and symptoms of physical abuse in children can include:
unexplained recurrent injuries, marks or burns
covering injuries with clothing even in hot weather
fear of physical contact and shrinking back if touched’

What we are discussing here is certainly not in that league.

Putting your hands on ANYONE especially a SEN child is totally unacceptable, you can quote any hyperbole you find over what you think constitutes "abuse" opinions are like arseholes, everyone has them, you're coming across as trying to downplay what by your own admission has happened, "bashed/hit his head off furniture" nice! What if he'd have needed stitches or worse? Would you still be downplaying or making up excuses then?!

Take a step back, were you on the outside looking in or resting this post I'd bet my house it would not be ok!