Constructive help understanding this please

[Franklyfrost]

I’d really like some advice, perspective and practical suggestions. It’s me, my dp, my 4 dc, 11, 9, 5 and 3. Dc 11 and dc 9 are exdh’s, dc 5 and 3 are dp’s.

Back story:
Dc 11 is lovely and can be very endearing and interesting. He is also pubescent, plus has SEN, so there’s no denying he often is hard work to be around. Dp and Ds 11 don’t have a good relationship- a vicious circle of them being rude to each other, I wish my dp would stop and treat ds 11 more like a child who needs love rather than an irritation. If dp made the effort to not engage in conflict and tried to develop a connection I’m sure ds 11’s behaviour toward him would improve. Dp knows this but just wants to be obeyed by ds 11.

Every 4 months or so my partner has grabbed or shoved ds. I’ve told him it’s unacceptable. He says he won’t do it again. As ds 11 is getting older- he’s very tall for an 11 year old, wears age 14 clothes- it’s become more shocking and the last time dp grabbed him, which was this summer, I really explained at length how it was not okay for my dp to grab or shove or drag ds 11 or dc 9 (he’s done it a few times but less with dc 9).

Yesterday morning dp grabbed ds 11, lifted him and in doing so banged his head against a piece of furniture. Ds 11 had accidentally hurt ds 5 while playing with him- enough to make ds 5 cry for a few seconds but nothing serious. Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth. I came into the room because of all the shouting- asked what had happened, checked with the dc and then went to tell dp that he couldn’t behave like that. Dp then started screaming at me, yelled at the top of his voice and then left the room. He came back from work that evening and refused to talk to me.

When I came to bed I said we had to discuss what had happened. He repeated much the same stuff he yelled in the morning: that ds 11 had kicked dc 5, which he had but dp didn’t mention the fact that he only kicked him lightly by accident while playing. Dp said lots about how I should support him and be in his side, that it was my fault for not telling him how what to do with dc 11 (I have explained many techniques, provided literature and we even did 12 weeks of cbt as part of the NHS well-being treatment for ds 11). He listed all my parenting fails and I pointed out none of them involved violence and they were all followed with an apology and an explanation. When I said he couldn’t touch my children dp replied well we live together so that’s not very practical- when it was obvious I meant not touch my children in anger or with violence. I told him I wanted an apology, that he needed to say sorry to ds 11 and I went to sleep on the sofa. Dp did apologise to ds 11, although it was ‘I’m sorry you got hurt’ rather than ‘I’m sorry I hurt you’. I didn’t hear any of the rest of the apology but I expect it was along the lines of ‘you hurt dc 5 and didn’t move when I asked so I had to move you’.

He messaged me during the day today and said ‘I’m sorry’ to which I replied ‘why are you sorry? I would like to know that you understand why your behaviour was so upsetting. You overstepped a clear boundary which you had previously agreed to. The subsequent aggression and minimising doesn’t assure me that you understand that boundary and won’t do the same thing again. I love you and want us to be okay. You made a mistake and you can make it better. Try this:
I apologise for ……..
I did it because …….
I wish I hadn’t done it because …..
In future I will…..
X
I’m not trying to be bossy but to explain clearly what would help me feel better.’
He didn’t reply or even open the message, came home from work and gave me the silent treatment again. What is going on? He lost his temper and acted badly why won’t he apologise? Am I being unreasonable? I’ve been working really hard to make our relationship better but I can’t let this slide. Advice please. I won’t be ltb for a few years as I am doing a vocational degree which will allow me to support myself and the children independently down the line. For me having dp as a stepfather for a few years is better than living in poverty for your whole childhood. Dp acts like he can’t see what he did or why it’s wrong. He doesn’t even seem to know he lost his temper. What do I do? Am in being a bitch or over reacting? How do I protect my kids and get dp see that he cannot shove or grab my kids. I don’t understand how he thinks it could be okay. Is it okay? He’s not perfect but I don’t think he’s an idiot or a monster despite evidence to the contrary. And, I love him.

A lot of this post has been about dp because my question is about dp’s behaviour but my son’s well being is the priority here. Any help in understanding or navigating this situation much appreciated. And sorry this is so long…

Part of me still thinks no one got hurt! It’s not worth the instability of losing a partner, of the kids not having two adults to look after them, just because someone was moved from a to b. I don’t know how to explain it, obviously I’m the monster. Dp does look after us lots. The kids would all be devastated if he left. Clearly from the responses above, which I will reread in the morning, I’m wrong. Thank you
For taking the time to talk this through with me.

So, if you won the lottery and came into a lot of money, you would leave?

You are using your dp for the money?
Maybe your dp senses he's being used and resents it and takes it out on your ds because your ds isn't an easy child.
Maybe your dp thinks your ds isn't showing proper gratitude for the money dp provides and it makes him mad.

Let’s accept as a premise that I’m a bad mother allowing my child to suffer terrible abuse. But why wouldn’t my partner, even just for an easy life, apologise and not touch the children?

Temper?

A love of power over others?

A belief that he's more important than anyone else?

Because he's got an easy life doing exactly as he pleases anyway?

Because no matter how many times you tell him it is unacceptable, no actual consequences happen when he does it again and again?

---

You're minimising when you say "being moved out of the way in an unpleasant manner". As you'll see if you hang around reading other posts, it's not only the physical impact of abusive actions eg injuries etc that matters. The emotional impact of living in fear of an angry person fucks people up (sometimes permanently), especially when they're children and know no different. I've been broke without a pot to piss in or a roof over my head and dependents to care for. It's preferable to living in fear of an abusive partner/parent. It's a temporary situation that can be fixed. If you stay in an abusive relationship, the abuse never stops. Your putting comfort above your DC mental health, physical health and emotional well-being.

You're not a terrible mother, you're misguided and lacking knowledge about abusive relationships and the harm they cause. Just because your situation could be worse, doesn't make it ok.

It's common to think that way, "it could be worse". It's a recognised coping mechanism, something your brain does to help you tolerate the intolerable and survive it, when you believe yourself to be trapped and unable to remove yourself from the bad situation. It's called cognitive dissonance. The issue is, you're not trapped, you only think you are. You can leave and survive and build a better life for your DC than this one.

I’m not trying to be patronising. In my eyes my dp shouldn’t touch the children and my dp disagrees. Everyone on this thread agrees that what do is wrong. That is helpful.

Why is nothing computing?

• you don't agree with your boyfriend being abusive towards your children
• your boyfriend thinks it's ok for him to be abusive towards his girlfriend's young child

So that's it then, is it? Problem solved? No next steps? Any next steps aside from 'trying to understand' or 'there's a psychological reason for everything'. Well, quite. There were reasons behind Ed Gein cutting up women and making belts out of their nipples but what's your point? How will your pontifications (which only relate to your fella, not ruminating about the kids) help your children?

"Every four months my partner shoves, pushes or drags me. He treats me like I'm an annoyance and that makes me really sad. I'm frightened of his temper. Last time he lashed out he picked me up, shoved me and I banged my head on a dresser. When I told him it was wrong he yelled at me and said it was my fault. He refused to give me a proper apology. He shouts at me when I tell him I want him to stop putting his hands on me in anger. This has happened every few months and it's clear he doesn't like me. Some people call it abuse but I'm not sure it's that bad really so I don't like calling it that. Should I keep living with him because leaving means I would have to go on universal credit? Oh and I have SEN."

If a woman wrote this what would you tell her to do? Be honest.

Now imagine being a CHILD on the receiving end of that treatment, who DOESNT have a choice as to whether they stay or not.

@BringOnTheOtherWorlders

*So, if you won the lottery and came into a lot of money, you would leave?

You are using your dp for the money?
Maybe your dp senses he's being used and resents it and takes it out on your ds because your ds isn't an easy child.
Maybe your dp thinks your ds isn't showing proper gratitude for the money dp provides and it makes him mad.*

I pay more than half the bills etc from my, rapidly diminishing, inheritance. So not a gold digger, alas, I just wouldn’t have it in me.

So if he was physically assaulting you, would you not leave? Would you not consider it assault? Try and understand why he does it eh? Christ. He does it cos he's a fucking bully.

Hi OP, social worker here. I would be looking at a child protection investigation for the incident you've talked about - the child abuse investigation team in the police that I work alongside have arrested men for less and would certainly be viewing your DPs actions as abuse, especially considering this is not the first time he has been hurt by your partner. I hope your DS tells a safe adult at school what is going on at home so that he can be safeguarded, as you are not able to help him by the sounds of it. This is abuse, no matter how you want to justify it as normal "discipline."

Part of me still thinks no one got hurt!

Your DC are being hurt by this every day. You can't see the scars, but they're forming.

You've given him numerous "second chances". You've researched what he needs to do to alter the situation with DS11 and he doesn't to, he just "wanted to be obeyed". And that's a poor excuse anyway because it's not only DS11 and his SEN it's at least one of the others too. It's excuses, that's all it is. If DS11 didn't have SEN there'd be some other "reason" for your partner's behaviour. He wants his own way and dishes out emotional abuse and violence if others don't comply.

@ OnyxOryx

Thanks. That’s really helpful.

I have protected my children for being hit- my mother has never been left alone with my children as with my first born she would slap them hard for minor transgressions for example baby pulling her necklace. It is difficult, having been around that, to see how wrong this is.

How long before the 5 and 3 year old start misbehaving and he lays hands on them too.

You do realise if you don't safeguard your children OP they can be taken from you if you don't end the relationship?

[quote Franklyfrost]@BringOnTheOtherWorlders

*So, if you won the lottery and came into a lot of money, you would leave?

You are using your dp for the money?
Maybe your dp senses he's being used and resents it and takes it out on your ds because your ds isn't an easy child.
Maybe your dp thinks your ds isn't showing proper gratitude for the money dp provides and it makes him mad.*

I pay more than half the bills etc from my, rapidly diminishing, inheritance. So not a gold digger, alas, I just wouldn’t have it in me.[/quote]
Omfg!
Do you even realise what a contradiction in terms you are,
You wouldn't more than likely be leaving with nothing, "poverty stricken" living on universal credits, you have an inheritance, even a diminishing one,

You're doing a disservice to your children, bugger the degree!

You're also in a round about way demoralising people who have had the gumption, bravery and nerve to leave complete cunts like this who have made the break and been the change.

In short you're an arse, that's putting it mildly.
Don't bother replying, I'm off, you can't reason with stupid and your "logic" is profoundly warped!

OP even if you were a gold digger your DP behaviour still wouldn't be justified. There's never any justifications for this behaviour. It's never ok. If he was annoyed at a gold digger he could leave the relationship, that's acceptable behaviour.

Part of me still thinks no one got hurt!

Apart from your son.

Your son's head got banged against furniture.

Your son isn't going to get easier to manage as he turns into a teenager, you know. What happens when he is bigger and stronger, how do you think that's going to pan out? Your partner is going to escalate his violence to maintain control.

"For me having dp as a stepfather for a few years is better than living in poverty for your whole childhood."

For you it is all about material comfort.

@Franklyfrost

Part of me still thinks no one got hurt! It’s not worth the instability of losing a partner, of the kids not having two adults to look after them, just because someone was moved from a to b. I don’t know how to explain it, obviously I’m the monster. Dp does look after us lots. The kids would all be devastated if he left. Clearly from the responses above, which I will reread in the morning, I’m wrong. Thank you For taking the time to talk this through with me.

Your child might not have been physically hurt but OP please consider the mental health aspect of this. This behaviour, along with you not leaving and allowing this to continue is going to mentally scar your children. Please think about how this might affect their future relationships. They might grow up thinking this is normal and get into violent relationships themselves. And it is not normal, and it is not acceptable.

Just because they weren't physically hurt this time doesn't mean they won't be physically hurt next time. Violence escalates over time. What happens when your child is the size of a grown man in a few years? What will your partner do then?

I think the reason people are acting so outraged on here is that there is nothing more important than the safety of you and your children. Nothing. It should be your number one priority in your life. Please think about this. What could possibly be more important than the safety of your children and you?

@Franklyfrost

Can anyone use words that aren’t insults to explain why my partner is behaving this way?

Because he is an abuser. And he gets away with it and probably enjoys it. CP social worker here (non identifiable obviously 🙄) and yes, this would trigger safeguarding. It is abuse. You are condoning the abuse of your son.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

"Every four months my partner shoves, pushes or drags me. He treats me like I'm an annoyance and that makes me really sad. I'm frightened of his temper. Last time he lashed out he picked me up, shoved me and I banged my head on a dresser. When I told him it was wrong he yelled at me and said it was my fault. He refused to give me a proper apology. He shouts at me when I tell him I want him to stop putting his hands on me in anger. This has happened every few months and it's clear he doesn't like me. Some people call it abuse but I'm not sure it's that bad really so I don't like calling it that. Should I keep living with him because leaving means I would have to go on universal credit? Oh and I have SEN."

If a woman wrote this what would you tell her to do? Be honest.

Now imagine being a CHILD on the receiving end of that treatment, who DOESNT have a choice as to whether they stay or not.

Any thoughts on this OP?

Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth.

That sounds like he was hurt to me.

@KurtWildesChristmasNamechange

Christ this is depressing.

Yep!

..and not just physically.

Nobody was hurt?

Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth.

Your son was hurt. You say not badly but he was hurt.

If your partner picked you up and shoved you into a dresser and you hit your head and teeth, would you describe that as an assault?

@KurtWildesChristmasNamechange With you.

OP I know someone who stayed with an abuser for career reasons, afraid of poverty. Eventually left before the DC reached double figures. One child grew up scared of their father and believing their mother didn't love them. The other has a criminal conviction for violence.

If you stay, you're teaching them that they should tolerate this and that to act like this is ok.

[quote Franklyfrost]@whistleryukon

• whistleryukon

For someone who who claims that they are looking for advice and guidance, you sure do have a very patronising manner. Firstly, all of the posters who have told you that your partner is abusive are wrong, they don't understand abuse, they're lying about their professions. Then anyone who uses any language you deem to be 'insulting' is also disregarded. Next, every other answer that you don't like just because nobody here could possibly have ever been poor and also have children. Just go and write your own response to your question in private, perhaps?*

I’m not trying to be patronising. In my eyes my dp shouldn’t touch the children and my dp disagrees. Everyone on this thread agrees that what do is wrong. That is helpful. There is a psychological explanation even for wrong actions. I don’t know how to understand why someone normally reasonable would behave like this.[/quote]
You do understand!
You started this thread stating what had happened, you know that you're playing it down, you know you're not happy with the situation, but you know if you acknowledge it, you'll have to do something about it... The truth is, you don't want to do anything about it because in your selfish way you've got it into your head that you don't want to be a single mum with 4 kids messing up your life of comfort, and getting your degree. That's the truth of it. You want him to play along with your pre- prepared farce of an apology in your message where you add a few love yous to sweeten him up. You've got it into your head that if he utters your crap apology exercise then you've done your bit, and you'll run your hands together and kid yourself that it's all sorted and there's no more to it.....

Until the next time.