Constructive help understanding this please

[Franklyfrost]

I’d really like some advice, perspective and practical suggestions. It’s me, my dp, my 4 dc, 11, 9, 5 and 3. Dc 11 and dc 9 are exdh’s, dc 5 and 3 are dp’s.

Back story:
Dc 11 is lovely and can be very endearing and interesting. He is also pubescent, plus has SEN, so there’s no denying he often is hard work to be around. Dp and Ds 11 don’t have a good relationship- a vicious circle of them being rude to each other, I wish my dp would stop and treat ds 11 more like a child who needs love rather than an irritation. If dp made the effort to not engage in conflict and tried to develop a connection I’m sure ds 11’s behaviour toward him would improve. Dp knows this but just wants to be obeyed by ds 11.

Every 4 months or so my partner has grabbed or shoved ds. I’ve told him it’s unacceptable. He says he won’t do it again. As ds 11 is getting older- he’s very tall for an 11 year old, wears age 14 clothes- it’s become more shocking and the last time dp grabbed him, which was this summer, I really explained at length how it was not okay for my dp to grab or shove or drag ds 11 or dc 9 (he’s done it a few times but less with dc 9).

Yesterday morning dp grabbed ds 11, lifted him and in doing so banged his head against a piece of furniture. Ds 11 had accidentally hurt ds 5 while playing with him- enough to make ds 5 cry for a few seconds but nothing serious. Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth. I came into the room because of all the shouting- asked what had happened, checked with the dc and then went to tell dp that he couldn’t behave like that. Dp then started screaming at me, yelled at the top of his voice and then left the room. He came back from work that evening and refused to talk to me.

When I came to bed I said we had to discuss what had happened. He repeated much the same stuff he yelled in the morning: that ds 11 had kicked dc 5, which he had but dp didn’t mention the fact that he only kicked him lightly by accident while playing. Dp said lots about how I should support him and be in his side, that it was my fault for not telling him how what to do with dc 11 (I have explained many techniques, provided literature and we even did 12 weeks of cbt as part of the NHS well-being treatment for ds 11). He listed all my parenting fails and I pointed out none of them involved violence and they were all followed with an apology and an explanation. When I said he couldn’t touch my children dp replied well we live together so that’s not very practical- when it was obvious I meant not touch my children in anger or with violence. I told him I wanted an apology, that he needed to say sorry to ds 11 and I went to sleep on the sofa. Dp did apologise to ds 11, although it was ‘I’m sorry you got hurt’ rather than ‘I’m sorry I hurt you’. I didn’t hear any of the rest of the apology but I expect it was along the lines of ‘you hurt dc 5 and didn’t move when I asked so I had to move you’.

He messaged me during the day today and said ‘I’m sorry’ to which I replied ‘why are you sorry? I would like to know that you understand why your behaviour was so upsetting. You overstepped a clear boundary which you had previously agreed to. The subsequent aggression and minimising doesn’t assure me that you understand that boundary and won’t do the same thing again. I love you and want us to be okay. You made a mistake and you can make it better. Try this:
I apologise for ……..
I did it because …….
I wish I hadn’t done it because …..
In future I will…..
X
I’m not trying to be bossy but to explain clearly what would help me feel better.’
He didn’t reply or even open the message, came home from work and gave me the silent treatment again. What is going on? He lost his temper and acted badly why won’t he apologise? Am I being unreasonable? I’ve been working really hard to make our relationship better but I can’t let this slide. Advice please. I won’t be ltb for a few years as I am doing a vocational degree which will allow me to support myself and the children independently down the line. For me having dp as a stepfather for a few years is better than living in poverty for your whole childhood. Dp acts like he can’t see what he did or why it’s wrong. He doesn’t even seem to know he lost his temper. What do I do? Am in being a bitch or over reacting? How do I protect my kids and get dp see that he cannot shove or grab my kids. I don’t understand how he thinks it could be okay. Is it okay? He’s not perfect but I don’t think he’s an idiot or a monster despite evidence to the contrary. And, I love him.

A lot of this post has been about dp because my question is about dp’s behaviour but my son’s well being is the priority here. Any help in understanding or navigating this situation much appreciated. And sorry this is so long…

What did Captain Bully reply to you with then @Franklyfrost?

your comments are making me angry ! your dp is a narcissistic bully ! and you are a pathetic excuse of a woman for allowing this to happen! (go on mumsnet delete my comment as its not in the spirit of support or whatever bollocks,) your children need help to get away from both of you !

I don’t know why I’m bothering with the already overwhelming amount of posts here, but in your first post you consistently describe his behaviour as: pushing, shoving, grabbing and violent. Then, after the onslaught of replies that rightly brought to light how disturbing this is, it turned into ‘he’s just moving him from one place to another, like you would an unruly toddler’, so which is it, OP? Or were you just furiously backtracking to save yourself having to absorb some responsibility here?

I’m glad you sent that text, but I doubt you mean it. It’s just a scare tactic that will land with zero impact because you’ve consistently shown him that you will accept this behaviour. Hell, you’ve consistently shown us you will continue to accept his behaviour, despite almost THREE HUNDRED replies telling you that your son needs your protection and he needs it now.

Even if your relationship can be salvaged, one day in the distant future, he needs to be separated from you and your children and to fully engage in very rigourous solo therapy to rebuild himself as a person and a parent. Can you see him doing this? No, I didn’t think so. And partially because you enable him to harm your son.

I hope to God your son tells someone who will take all the necessary step to protect him soon.

I can only hope DS tells his Dad and he gets his children out of there.

This isn’t going to get better with puberty and your son growing.
DH is going to see his dominance challenged.

@ToughTittyWhompus

I can only hope DS tells his Dad and he gets his children out of there.

That's a very good point. What is the paternal family find out what is going on? Will they be supportive of your decision to play family therapist for your bf?

You are an absolute disgrace. You think it's ok to push a child? You think it's okay to be a little bit violent?
You sound like an emotionless psychopath.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

What did Captain Bully reply to you with then *@Franklyfrost*?

He's most likely ignored it, the same as he did the OPs text where she had to try and talk him through an apology that she'd started the sentences for him to add a bit on the end. That done, the OP will be chuffed with herself that she's got the matter sorted and dealt with so that's the end of it.

The fact that the two previous messages showed the true state of the OPs relationship, where he doesn't even want to sit and spend time having a cuppa with the OP were very telling. All's not well in this household at all. The OP is just wanting a comfortable life and her degree, that's it. The kids, and her relationship are just stepping stones to get comfort and cash. She's got no intention of being a single parent. The eldest child is too much hassle for her, so she's not bothered about his safety. The partner probably owns the house they live in, as she says she'd have to leave and rough it with the kids. The OP won't rough it, it's much easier to fein oblivion.
I'm curious to know what the degree is in, I have my suspicions.
Mind you I think this thread is very suspicious too. All seems too orchestrated and goady. When it goes off the boil the OP nips back to stoke it up. Strange.

Oops forgive auto corrects 😮

Hoping all is ok and that you're not being subjected to more silent treatment (or worse) after daring to text him earlier today OP. You've had some stick on this thread but genuinely people have you and your DCs best interests at heart - hope you're able to find some clarity on how best to move forwards and what to do now

@Franklyfrost

Can anyone use words that aren’t insults to explain why my partner is behaving this way?

Because he knows he can get away with it.

This is abusive, I’m a social worker.

OP
I'm not sure you agree that what your partner does is harmful.
So...

Let's say you're at work, and you make a small mistake. Your colleague, who is bigger, stronger, and senior to you gets angry at you. Very very angry.
He strides up to you - any pleasantness on his face is gone: it's been replaced by a look of sheer anger and disgust.
He's moving very quickly towards you, his hand in a fist. You have no idea how this is going to turn out. Only a moment ago ago you were laughing with another colleague, and now you are calculating if you can defend yourself against this person. The look on his face is terrifying.

At the last minute, he backs away.

He hasn't hurt you though.

You feel that you must be an awful person. After all, you made a mistake and this person just...changed into someone unrecognisable. It must be you because everyone around saw it, but didn't speak up. It must be your fault. The shame weighs so heavily.

It takes awhile for you to relax around him. As a matter of fact, you never really do. There is always a bit of you that is slightly on edge. Sometimes you aren't consciously aware of it, but that unease now lives with you, just under the surface.

A few months later, you make another small mistake. This time he rushes at you- still bigger, still stronger, and all his seniority giving him even more weight.
This time he doesn't back off, he pushes you aside and in the confusion, your head hits the file cabinet.
Again, co-workers look on, and say nothing. Well, Linda from accounts weakly tells him that it wasn't right what he did. But no one listens to her.

Your head is a bit sore, but really, it's the terror you felt in those seconds when you really didn't know what would happen. Its the shame of knowing you must be a complete fuck up for him to react that way, and for nobody to bat an eye. Well, except Linda, but...you know). You don't know how you can walk into work every day ( every day!) because every time you do, you're frightened you'll mess up again. You know you're unsafe, and you know your co-workers think you're an idiot who deserves every single bit of crap hurled your way.
You feel useless all the time.

OP
How would you feel?
This is your son's life, but he can't clock off at the end of the day

@spotcheck

OP I'm not sure you agree that what your partner does is harmful. So...

Let's say you're at work, and you make a small mistake. Your colleague, who is bigger, stronger, and senior to you gets angry at you. Very very angry.
He strides up to you - any pleasantness on his face is gone: it's been replaced by a look of sheer anger and disgust.
He's moving very quickly towards you, his hand in a fist. You have no idea how this is going to turn out. Only a moment ago ago you were laughing with another colleague, and now you are calculating if you can defend yourself against this person. The look on his face is terrifying.

At the last minute, he backs away.

He hasn't hurt you though.

You feel that you must be an awful person. After all, you made a mistake and this person just...changed into someone unrecognisable. It must be you because everyone around saw it, but didn't speak up. It must be your fault. The shame weighs so heavily.

It takes awhile for you to relax around him. As a matter of fact, you never really do. There is always a bit of you that is slightly on edge. Sometimes you aren't consciously aware of it, but that unease now lives with you, just under the surface.

A few months later, you make another small mistake. This time he rushes at you- still bigger, still stronger, and all his seniority giving him even more weight.
This time he doesn't back off, he pushes you aside and in the confusion, your head hits the file cabinet.
Again, co-workers look on, and say nothing. Well, Linda from accounts weakly tells him that it wasn't right what he did. But no one listens to her.

Your head is a bit sore, but really, it's the terror you felt in those seconds when you really didn't know what would happen. Its the shame of knowing you must be a complete fuck up for him to react that way, and for nobody to bat an eye. Well, except Linda, but...you know). You don't know how you can walk into work every day ( every day!) because every time you do, you're frightened you'll mess up again. You know you're unsafe, and you know your co-workers think you're an idiot who deserves every single bit of crap hurled your way.
You feel useless all the time.

OP
How would you feel?
This is your son's life, but he can't clock off at the end of the day

This. Absolutely this.

[quote Franklyfrost]@JurgensCakeBaby

I’m in the uk so if you’re inclined to, you’re free to hit your kids so long as it doesn’t leave a mark/ lasting physical damage. Not something I’d advocate obviously.[/quote]
I'm actually a bit disgusted that this is the bench mark you have set for your partner's interactions with your children.

Every few months your partner shoves, grabs or drags your son (your words) and you're here making light of it like it's not absolutely terrible.

If any partner of mine shoved, grabbed or dragged my child I wouldn't be splitting hairs about why they won't apologise for it. I'd just accept they are a fucking arsehole and leave them.

When you are young (a child-probably older too) with no life experience, you don't know what is wrong so you internalise it and think it's your fault. You ask yourself 'what did I do to deserve this?' It's bad enough as an adult walking on egg shells around someone who has a hair trigger temper and will get physical. No child thanks a parent who stays with a partner due to the finances in such circumstances. They won't see that. I get it, life is going to be uncomfortable and financially not optimal but somethings are worth a lot more than that, including setting up your kids to have healthy relationships. And your relationship with your child going forward into adulthood will be compromised too.

I'm sure you have 300+ comments all saying the same as this but essentially degree or not, financially reliant or not- there's absolutely no fucking way on earth I'd be letting him near any of my children- let alone staying with him. I'd be accessing all the financial support and childcare resources possible from state and uni and he'd have a binbag of clothes on the doorstep.

I’ve been the child in this situation. You are full of shit saying that the best thing is to stay with your “d”p. It’s utter selfishness on your part and when your child grows up he will not forgive you for it.

You’re a bad mother and the worst thing is, you know you are and you don’t care because you’d rather stick with your scumbag boyfriend. That poor little boy, this stuff makes me sick.

The one person who should love him the most in the world is failing him and it’s so sad to read.

Is this a joke?

@spotcheck

OP I'm not sure you agree that what your partner does is harmful. So...

Let's say you're at work, and you make a small mistake. Your colleague, who is bigger, stronger, and senior to you gets angry at you. Very very angry.
He strides up to you - any pleasantness on his face is gone: it's been replaced by a look of sheer anger and disgust.
He's moving very quickly towards you, his hand in a fist. You have no idea how this is going to turn out. Only a moment ago ago you were laughing with another colleague, and now you are calculating if you can defend yourself against this person. The look on his face is terrifying.

At the last minute, he backs away.

He hasn't hurt you though.

You feel that you must be an awful person. After all, you made a mistake and this person just...changed into someone unrecognisable. It must be you because everyone around saw it, but didn't speak up. It must be your fault. The shame weighs so heavily.

It takes awhile for you to relax around him. As a matter of fact, you never really do. There is always a bit of you that is slightly on edge. Sometimes you aren't consciously aware of it, but that unease now lives with you, just under the surface.

A few months later, you make another small mistake. This time he rushes at you- still bigger, still stronger, and all his seniority giving him even more weight.
This time he doesn't back off, he pushes you aside and in the confusion, your head hits the file cabinet.
Again, co-workers look on, and say nothing. Well, Linda from accounts weakly tells him that it wasn't right what he did. But no one listens to her.

Your head is a bit sore, but really, it's the terror you felt in those seconds when you really didn't know what would happen. Its the shame of knowing you must be a complete fuck up for him to react that way, and for nobody to bat an eye. Well, except Linda, but...you know). You don't know how you can walk into work every day ( every day!) because every time you do, you're frightened you'll mess up again. You know you're unsafe, and you know your co-workers think you're an idiot who deserves every single bit of crap hurled your way.
You feel useless all the time.

OP
How would you feel?
This is your son's life, but he can't clock off at the end of the day

This. Read this and then read it again.

If you wouldn't accept being treated like that, why on earth do you accept it for your son?

@Franklyfrost

Didn’t anyone on this thread get hit as a child? I grew up in the uk but with parents from different cultures and was regularly hit, mainly slapped on the head and face. It wasn’t ideal and I’d never do it to my kids but what my dp does isn’t comparable to my childhood and my childhood is still entirely legal today. Maybe my perspective is off. I don’t know.

Fortunately here in Scotland, hitting, smacking and violence against children IS illegal.

Idiot. He picked up a child with special needs and either slammed or threw him deliberately into the furniture/wall in anger and then shouted to distract away from the abuse.

Has he started on 'that child is a freak and a danger to the little ones, he needs to be in a home or with his father' yet? Or 'I protect the little ones because you won't, that little shit's got you wrapped around his little finger with his crying' ?

It sounds VERY abusive. You need to protect your child and if your husband won't even apologise and agree to not hurt your child again, that's very worrying. I'd be threatening to leave and would leave it he was unkind to my child again.

Please don't try and play down what is happening here.

Even without the physical violence, your husband's behaviour towards your son must make him feel really awful. That sort of thing can really damage your confidence and affect you for life.

He absolutely shouldn’t be pushing or smacking your DCs. I also think that for anyone other than a parent, helping to raise a child who is SEN would be very difficult. He’s not coping well with the challenge, and it would be best for all of you if you walked away from the relationship, as the family dynamics isn’t great for any of you.

Its obvious OP you don’t see DP’s behaviour as abuse you are minimising his behaviour not just towards your son but yourself to. This is why you refuse to get rid of the abuser and protect your child. I guarentee you will never fix this as you put it your DP is an abuser its ingrained in his personality. Nothings going to change that. Theres nothing to fix. Kick him out and protect your son like any decent mother would do.