Constructive help understanding this please

[Franklyfrost]

I’d really like some advice, perspective and practical suggestions. It’s me, my dp, my 4 dc, 11, 9, 5 and 3. Dc 11 and dc 9 are exdh’s, dc 5 and 3 are dp’s.

Back story:
Dc 11 is lovely and can be very endearing and interesting. He is also pubescent, plus has SEN, so there’s no denying he often is hard work to be around. Dp and Ds 11 don’t have a good relationship- a vicious circle of them being rude to each other, I wish my dp would stop and treat ds 11 more like a child who needs love rather than an irritation. If dp made the effort to not engage in conflict and tried to develop a connection I’m sure ds 11’s behaviour toward him would improve. Dp knows this but just wants to be obeyed by ds 11.

Every 4 months or so my partner has grabbed or shoved ds. I’ve told him it’s unacceptable. He says he won’t do it again. As ds 11 is getting older- he’s very tall for an 11 year old, wears age 14 clothes- it’s become more shocking and the last time dp grabbed him, which was this summer, I really explained at length how it was not okay for my dp to grab or shove or drag ds 11 or dc 9 (he’s done it a few times but less with dc 9).

Yesterday morning dp grabbed ds 11, lifted him and in doing so banged his head against a piece of furniture. Ds 11 had accidentally hurt ds 5 while playing with him- enough to make ds 5 cry for a few seconds but nothing serious. Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth. I came into the room because of all the shouting- asked what had happened, checked with the dc and then went to tell dp that he couldn’t behave like that. Dp then started screaming at me, yelled at the top of his voice and then left the room. He came back from work that evening and refused to talk to me.

When I came to bed I said we had to discuss what had happened. He repeated much the same stuff he yelled in the morning: that ds 11 had kicked dc 5, which he had but dp didn’t mention the fact that he only kicked him lightly by accident while playing. Dp said lots about how I should support him and be in his side, that it was my fault for not telling him how what to do with dc 11 (I have explained many techniques, provided literature and we even did 12 weeks of cbt as part of the NHS well-being treatment for ds 11). He listed all my parenting fails and I pointed out none of them involved violence and they were all followed with an apology and an explanation. When I said he couldn’t touch my children dp replied well we live together so that’s not very practical- when it was obvious I meant not touch my children in anger or with violence. I told him I wanted an apology, that he needed to say sorry to ds 11 and I went to sleep on the sofa. Dp did apologise to ds 11, although it was ‘I’m sorry you got hurt’ rather than ‘I’m sorry I hurt you’. I didn’t hear any of the rest of the apology but I expect it was along the lines of ‘you hurt dc 5 and didn’t move when I asked so I had to move you’.

He messaged me during the day today and said ‘I’m sorry’ to which I replied ‘why are you sorry? I would like to know that you understand why your behaviour was so upsetting. You overstepped a clear boundary which you had previously agreed to. The subsequent aggression and minimising doesn’t assure me that you understand that boundary and won’t do the same thing again. I love you and want us to be okay. You made a mistake and you can make it better. Try this:
I apologise for ……..
I did it because …….
I wish I hadn’t done it because …..
In future I will…..
X
I’m not trying to be bossy but to explain clearly what would help me feel better.’
He didn’t reply or even open the message, came home from work and gave me the silent treatment again. What is going on? He lost his temper and acted badly why won’t he apologise? Am I being unreasonable? I’ve been working really hard to make our relationship better but I can’t let this slide. Advice please. I won’t be ltb for a few years as I am doing a vocational degree which will allow me to support myself and the children independently down the line. For me having dp as a stepfather for a few years is better than living in poverty for your whole childhood. Dp acts like he can’t see what he did or why it’s wrong. He doesn’t even seem to know he lost his temper. What do I do? Am in being a bitch or over reacting? How do I protect my kids and get dp see that he cannot shove or grab my kids. I don’t understand how he thinks it could be okay. Is it okay? He’s not perfect but I don’t think he’s an idiot or a monster despite evidence to the contrary. And, I love him.

A lot of this post has been about dp because my question is about dp’s behaviour but my son’s well being is the priority here. Any help in understanding or navigating this situation much appreciated. And sorry this is so long…

[quote Franklyfrost]@JurgensCakeBaby

I’m in the uk so if you’re inclined to, you’re free to hit your kids so long as it doesn’t leave a mark/ lasting physical damage. Not something I’d advocate obviously.[/quote]
This is not even true. You are not “free to hit your kids so long as it doesn’t leave a mark”. That’s a common misconception. The Police can prosecute if the CPS wish to do so irrespective of a mark. Children‘s Services most certainly would not agree either that you’re ‘free to hit your kids”, if they’re being hurt, then there is a risk of harm.

I would like to ask you why you don’t even have the foresight to realise that your partner is encouraging future violence in your maturing children by dealing with your chlidren’s naughty behaviour physically himself. You are teaching them this is the way to deal with conflict.

Mark my words as a woman with a SEN child that as your son matures he will react to physical acts against him with physical acts himself in self defence. So how far are you willing to let it go before you realise it is a form of bullying and abuse and step up and protect your vulnerable children.

What are you prepared to overlook. A push, a shove, a slap. You should have walked away the very first time your partner laid a finger on your child.

The only way you can teach your children that adults have no right to physically hurt them is by not allowing anyone including your partner to do it at any level.

No amount of home comforts could stop me from protecting my children with every breath in my body. And I have raised my kids as a single mum for the last 14 years. We sometimes went without and it wasn’t always easy but they always knew they were safe with me.

@Franklyfrost

I couldn't get over this............

For me having dp as a stepfather for a few years is better than living in poverty for your whole childhood

You said it, for you it would be 'better', but then it's not you who is actually suffering, is it ??

Do you truly think your 11yr old would rather have a nicer home that a safe one ?

That he'd rather have more presents at Xmas than be physically injured and mentally scarred ?

Quite honestly, if you really think that then you're as much a danger to him as your H !

And if you're putting your degree, and the increased money you can earn from it, in the future above your child's safety, then all I can say is you'll reap what you've sown in that 'future'.

Yes, no doubt you'll have a 'nicer' house and more money, but which of your kids or grandkids will ever be around to share that with you when you've exposed them all to a violent and toxic home life for years ?

No amount of home comforts could stop me from protecting my children with every breath in my body. And I have raised my kids as a single mum for the last 14 years. We sometimes went without and it wasn’t always easy but they always knew they were safe with me.

100% this

The children being protected and safe in their home is a basic right and the very minimum they deserve.

Anything else is a bonus but this needs to be the priority

I'd live in a hostel with my DD before I'd let any man lay a finger on her in her own home

I suppose you’ll need to wait a few years till he punches him - as he will, before you step up and protect your son. His rage and justifications and now ignoring you show that he’s not sorry and doesn’t care that you’re telling him how wrong it is.

See you back here in a year or two.

Total lack of foresight. Your son is being taught to deal with conflict by using his hands on other people and you can't even see it. Well you will see it in a few years time when the police turn up on your doorstep because he assaulted someone who didn't do what he told them.

I’m not trying to be patronising. In my eyes my dp shouldn’t touch the children and my dp disagrees. Everyone on this thread agrees that what do is wrong. That is helpful. There is a psychological explanation even for wrong actions. I don’t know how to understand why someone normally reasonable would behave like this.

You repeat time and time again, why is he doing this? why won’t he stop? Why does he not understand this is wrong. Why is he not sympathetic? It’s because he is abusive! He feels entitled to shove you ds around and you have let this happen. The anger and aggression will only get worse. Your ds may well retaliate, everyone has a breaking point, he’s getting older, soon approaching rebellious teenage years and he is being taught aggression by example, then what? He punches your ds? Worse?
I know you’ve took a battering on here, and you have a lot to read through and process. But an awful stepdad is not better than no stepdad. Please believe that.
You say about being poor being bad for the children etc. I left a situation not massively dissimilar, with no inheritance or savings. I think your ramblings about posters not knowing poverty is ironic and best.
Put your children first, a happy home life is far more important than money in the bank.

Who gives a fig what the psychological explanation is?? You shouldn't be with someone purely for your own materialistic reasons who abuses your kids. If that needs a psychological explanation then I'd question your own fitness as a parent.

Feeling safe, loved and nurtured is crucial to brain development. Read the book The Body Keeps the Score, it is fantastic. My DP and I have our troubles but having an atmosphere of conflict, known dislike with episodes of scuffling and grabbing - it's not what I would want for my kids.

You’re determined to understand and fix him. Why? Why do you think you can fix him when he doesn’t give a shit? You have to coax him into an apology; are you his mum?

“Come on DP, just say sorry and you’ll never do it again and I’ll forgive you for abusing my son. Again”.

You are an absolute disgrace of a mother and nothing anyone will say will convince you to put your children above this man. You will reap what you sow in future remember that.

I am also part of a MASH team, you are more than welcome to DM me for my full name and place of work and I’d be more than happy for you to call and verify my identity.

I sincerely hope your son is brave enough to speak out to someone he trusts about what is happening in his home.

Fingers crossed your son discloses to someone and social services become involved. Give it a few years years your DC will be old enough and big enough to thump him back. Why wouldn't he? He is growing up in a house where he is taught physical violence is okay.

@Franklyfrost

It’s certainly wrong to hurt a child or be aggressive toward them but I don’t think it’s classified as abuse by the law. My children all know it’s not okay for any adult to be violent toward them and I’ve discussed what happened with the older two kids. It does feel awful. Why can’t dp just not touch them? Or at least acknowledge he was wrong?

For him saying 'I am sorry' IS an apology.

He is too ashamed to say more.

I'd move on once after that and if it ever happened again I would have to separate until he gets the message and stops doing it forever.

If he never stops, this would be the end of my relations with such an abusive man towards my 2 older children even if he has some of his positive sides.

you are spending too much time wondering why your DP acts like that and if you can fix him.

It doesn't matter why - it's what he does. And he won't change, because he doesn't want to.

Your posts read a bit like you're looking for a technicality to show your DP isn't all that bad. Saying it isn't illegal to hit a child?

I have never hit my children and don't know any parents who think it's OK. And yes I am in the UK like you.

But whether or not it's illegal isn't the point. This man doesn't like your child. Your child knows it. Why would you want to stay with him? How can you like, let alone love, a man who doesn't like your children and can't keep his hands off them?

This thread is beyond upsetting. That poor child was "slapped hard" by your mother (on more than one occasion?) when he was a baby, and now he is being "shockingly" shoved, pulled, and shouted at by your partner, who views him as an irritant; all the while dealing with having additional needs, which can be frightening and confusing for children to deal with.

Now I'm wondering how it went when you introduced him to your current partner - did you give him (and your 9yo) time to adjust? Did he object? Did they like each other at first?

I'm sorry if it sounds like I'm judging, but I just wonder whether you've been putting his needs first at any point along this road really.

@user1471442488

I’ve been the child in this situation. You are full of shit saying that the best thing is to stay with your “d”p. It’s utter selfishness on your part and when your child grows up he will not forgive you for it.

You’re a bad mother and the worst thing is, you know you are and you don’t care because you’d rather stick with your scumbag boyfriend. That poor little boy, this stuff makes me sick.

The one person who should love him the most in the world is failing him and it’s so sad to read.

Can confirm. My mother did this to me. Chose DP over me. We still lived in poverty with the step father.

As an aside I’m raising my own DC as a single mother not in poverty but we lack the things I might be able to afford if we were a two income household but you know what? My child has never been hit. Never been made to feel they were a problem by some random man.

If my DP ever laid a hand on my DS, that would be the end. It doesn't matter that your DS is big for his age. It wouldn't matter if he was 6 foot 4, he's a CHILD and needs to be protected from an adult who thinks it's acceptable to shove him.

I bet all of your DCs would rather not get pushed or slapped than have Disney+ or Netflix. I do wonder what these luxuries are that you are holding out for. With UC, income and CM from 2 men you should be able to provide adequately for your DC.

My 10YO had SEN and whilst she is very challenging at times, I have never laid a hand on her and if her own father did, I would reign down Hellfire on him. Let alone if a step parent did (ExDP and I are both long term single).

@Franklyfrost

Didn’t anyone on this thread get hit as a child? I grew up in the uk but with parents from different cultures and was regularly hit, mainly slapped on the head and face. It wasn’t ideal and I’d never do it to my kids but what my dp does isn’t comparable to my childhood and my childhood is still entirely legal today. Maybe my perspective is off. I don’t know.

HI OP yes, I got slapped and smacked at home occasionally as did my brother - everyone I know did, and at school (a very good school academically) we had hard discipline in school involving being smacked or hit with rulers and the boys were strapped etc. That was back in the 1970s though where children knew and were told what the boundaries were for behaviour. We all knew what the limits and rules were and what happened if we crossed them. It was just normal then.

@LondonWolf

I suppose you’ll need to wait a few years till he punches him - as he will, before you step up and protect your son. His rage and justifications and now ignoring you show that he’s not sorry and doesn’t care that you’re telling him how wrong it is.

See you back here in a year or two.

Do you think she’d leave if he punched the child?

I’m not so sure. If she’ll allow him to be slapped hard by her mother repeatedly, pushed and lifted to bang his head (which I don’t know if I’d believe was an accident) and singled out for violence from his siblings, why would she leave at a punch?

I’ve always wondered in cases of stepfather abuse of a stepchild why the mother tolerated it. You hear of these tragic cases with one stepchild singled out for abuse if some sort and I wonder how can the mother stand by and allow a man to hurt one of her children, does she love that child less?

Now I know in at least one case it’s because she wants to live a better life with expensive things.

It really doesn’t matter why he does what he does, stop trying rationalise and explain. Focus instead on the impact his behaviour is having on you dc, on you, on the family dynamic.

You say he is only a bastard some of the time - a bastard even for only a small % of time is still too much of a bastard!

You need to stop approaching this as an intellectual exercise as if by understanding what causes his behaviour you will be able to change it. Instead approach it as a loving mother whose priority should be protecting her children. .

The only person that can change his behaviour is him and why should he change? He has the home, the financial security, a passive partner and little kids to bully. It's all good for him.