Constructive help understanding this please

[Franklyfrost]

I’d really like some advice, perspective and practical suggestions. It’s me, my dp, my 4 dc, 11, 9, 5 and 3. Dc 11 and dc 9 are exdh’s, dc 5 and 3 are dp’s.

Back story:
Dc 11 is lovely and can be very endearing and interesting. He is also pubescent, plus has SEN, so there’s no denying he often is hard work to be around. Dp and Ds 11 don’t have a good relationship- a vicious circle of them being rude to each other, I wish my dp would stop and treat ds 11 more like a child who needs love rather than an irritation. If dp made the effort to not engage in conflict and tried to develop a connection I’m sure ds 11’s behaviour toward him would improve. Dp knows this but just wants to be obeyed by ds 11.

Every 4 months or so my partner has grabbed or shoved ds. I’ve told him it’s unacceptable. He says he won’t do it again. As ds 11 is getting older- he’s very tall for an 11 year old, wears age 14 clothes- it’s become more shocking and the last time dp grabbed him, which was this summer, I really explained at length how it was not okay for my dp to grab or shove or drag ds 11 or dc 9 (he’s done it a few times but less with dc 9).

Yesterday morning dp grabbed ds 11, lifted him and in doing so banged his head against a piece of furniture. Ds 11 had accidentally hurt ds 5 while playing with him- enough to make ds 5 cry for a few seconds but nothing serious. Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth. I came into the room because of all the shouting- asked what had happened, checked with the dc and then went to tell dp that he couldn’t behave like that. Dp then started screaming at me, yelled at the top of his voice and then left the room. He came back from work that evening and refused to talk to me.

When I came to bed I said we had to discuss what had happened. He repeated much the same stuff he yelled in the morning: that ds 11 had kicked dc 5, which he had but dp didn’t mention the fact that he only kicked him lightly by accident while playing. Dp said lots about how I should support him and be in his side, that it was my fault for not telling him how what to do with dc 11 (I have explained many techniques, provided literature and we even did 12 weeks of cbt as part of the NHS well-being treatment for ds 11). He listed all my parenting fails and I pointed out none of them involved violence and they were all followed with an apology and an explanation. When I said he couldn’t touch my children dp replied well we live together so that’s not very practical- when it was obvious I meant not touch my children in anger or with violence. I told him I wanted an apology, that he needed to say sorry to ds 11 and I went to sleep on the sofa. Dp did apologise to ds 11, although it was ‘I’m sorry you got hurt’ rather than ‘I’m sorry I hurt you’. I didn’t hear any of the rest of the apology but I expect it was along the lines of ‘you hurt dc 5 and didn’t move when I asked so I had to move you’.

He messaged me during the day today and said ‘I’m sorry’ to which I replied ‘why are you sorry? I would like to know that you understand why your behaviour was so upsetting. You overstepped a clear boundary which you had previously agreed to. The subsequent aggression and minimising doesn’t assure me that you understand that boundary and won’t do the same thing again. I love you and want us to be okay. You made a mistake and you can make it better. Try this:
I apologise for ……..
I did it because …….
I wish I hadn’t done it because …..
In future I will…..
X
I’m not trying to be bossy but to explain clearly what would help me feel better.’
He didn’t reply or even open the message, came home from work and gave me the silent treatment again. What is going on? He lost his temper and acted badly why won’t he apologise? Am I being unreasonable? I’ve been working really hard to make our relationship better but I can’t let this slide. Advice please. I won’t be ltb for a few years as I am doing a vocational degree which will allow me to support myself and the children independently down the line. For me having dp as a stepfather for a few years is better than living in poverty for your whole childhood. Dp acts like he can’t see what he did or why it’s wrong. He doesn’t even seem to know he lost his temper. What do I do? Am in being a bitch or over reacting? How do I protect my kids and get dp see that he cannot shove or grab my kids. I don’t understand how he thinks it could be okay. Is it okay? He’s not perfect but I don’t think he’s an idiot or a monster despite evidence to the contrary. And, I love him.

A lot of this post has been about dp because my question is about dp’s behaviour but my son’s well being is the priority here. Any help in understanding or navigating this situation much appreciated. And sorry this is so long…

pushing is the same as pulling. its abuse to drag your child around but you sound just as bad making excuses. just because you were hit as a child doesnt mean you should minimise your dc's abuse.

He's used 'physical force'( as from the mets guidelines you quoted) as, according to you, he has grabbed him, shoved him, 'accidently bumped his head after lifting him (takes a bit of force to do both of those btw) and shouted at him.

This is all abuse.

You need to reread your own post.

You need to protect your son. Things won't improve. If you don't want to face up to the fact that it's abuse, you aren't being a responsible parent. You asked for peoples opinions and on here and if you didn't want the truth then you shouldn't have posted here. I usually try to see the OPs point of view and try to be fair but this time all I can say is that I'm so sick of reading about cases in the news where parents (biological or step) have abused children or their partners have. They usually know its happening and don't act in time. Don't let that be you. Open your eyes.

Ah. We've told you all this before. But two months on you've changed nothing. Just more emotional abuse for you. And more physical and emotional abuse for your kids.

Also, it doesn't matter if your dp doesn't think he's doing wrong. Doesn't make it OK. You know it's wrong.

To come at it a another way, you said it’s better to live like this for a few years than live in poverty. What that boils down to is the money dp brings in is worth your son being hurt, possibly the 9 year old as well soon. So this goes on for 4 years for example, that’s what you are prepared to sell your son for, that I come for those 4 years.

Will you ever worry when you leave him with your older kids? Always because you know it’s escalating. I have a tall 11 year old too, he’s bigger than some adults but that doesn’t mean he is an adult.

Franklyfrost

Can anyone use words that aren’t insults to explain why my partner is behaving this way?

Because he can and because he continues to get away with it and you continue to allow him to.

THIS. Absolutely this.

I am telling from painful experience that you must protect your children from this man, both physically and emotionally. Because if you dont, they - and you - will suffer the consequences for ever after.

I'm seeing a classic cycle of abuse in the post you shared there @youvegottenminuteslynn

OP come on, none of this is any good for you or your DC. You know it isn't. Your DP is abusive and you're excusing him.

Why is nothing computing?

Because Rome wasn't built in a day. The beliefs of a lifetime sometimes take a little longer than a few hours to be changed. It sounds like OP may have had abuse normalised in her own childhood, considering what she's mentioned about her mother.

OP people are frustrated because they'd like to whisk you away from this situation, but they can't do that, only you can. Things aren't black and white. If rotten people were like that 100% of the time people would quickly get fed up of them and not want to be around them. They don't behave that way because it wouldn't work for them. So they do it intermittently to keep their victims confused, because that keeps them hanging around.

Even if your partner was thick as shit without two braincells to rub together, you told him his behaviour is wrong and explained why and what he could do differently. He therefore has all the knowledge necessary to decide to seek help to change and become a better person. Yet he's chosen not to.

He's abusing your oldest children. How long before he starts in the other two?

And how long will you keep minimising it for?

OP you're getting a hard time here because people are (quite rightly) furious for your kids. Bear in mind that there will be a lot of people here who have been that kid, in that situation. Take it from me that it's the psychological scars that stay with you and take a long time to deal with. Let's say I knew someone who dealt with this situation... Well, that person no longer wants much at all to do with their parents as an adult. That's parents, plural, because although one of the parents was unwaveringly 'nice' and agreeable and never had a bad word to say about anyone, they ultimately allowed the other parent to mistreat the kid.

@youvegottenminuteslynn

Ah. We've told you all this before. But two months on you've changed nothing. Just more emotional abuse for you. And more physical and emotional abuse for your kids.

I get your frustration but I think OP should come back to discuss this as many times as she wants. Changing her view and having the strength to leave is not an overnight process.

Sounds like she was on the receiving end of some pretty horrible abuse herself as a child. Unravelling those messages from childhood is a long process. I think some of the things people are saying is resonating.

OP is a victim of abuse here, both as a child and as an adult. People aren't perfect victims. They don't fit neatly into our ideas of what a victim is. Abuse like this is messy and confusing. Although she appears to be fighting against some posts others are having more impact. Which is good.

I actually refuse to believe that you’re not trolling because wtf? This is harrowing. I can’t believe you’re minimising the abuse of your son like this. Your poor, poor child.

[quote Franklyfrost]@whistleryukon

• whistleryukon

For someone who who claims that they are looking for advice and guidance, you sure do have a very patronising manner. Firstly, all of the posters who have told you that your partner is abusive are wrong, they don't understand abuse, they're lying about their professions. Then anyone who uses any language you deem to be 'insulting' is also disregarded. Next, every other answer that you don't like just because nobody here could possibly have ever been poor and also have children. Just go and write your own response to your question in private, perhaps?*

I’m not trying to be patronising. In my eyes my dp shouldn’t touch the children and my dp disagrees. Everyone on this thread agrees that what do is wrong. That is helpful. There is a psychological explanation even for wrong actions. I don’t know how to understand why someone normally reasonable would behave like this.[/quote]
He's reasonable when he's "in control."

When your son tests his patience he loses his temper and becomes abusive. (Because he has "lost control" of your ds/the situation).

The root psychological cause is irrelevant. He is dangerous.

PROTECT YOUR CHILDREN

Dp knows this but just wants to be obeyed by ds 11.

Every 4 months or so my partner has grabbed or shoved ds. I’ve told him it’s unacceptable.

(he’s done it a few times but less with dc 9).

Ds 11 freaked out- he wasn’t badly hurt at all but had hit his head and teeth.

He came back from work that evening and refused to talk to me.
*
He came back from work that evening and refused to talk to me.
*
For me having dp as a stepfather for a few years is better than living in poverty for your whole childhood.

How do I protect my kids and get dp see that he cannot shove or grab my kids.
*
but my son’s well being is the priority here.*

Please read this all back to yourself and imagine it was a friend or family member of yours telling you this was their situation, what advice would you give them?
I've seen your replies to other people and they're honestly shocking.
How you can defend this man against your kids even when you've asked how do you protect them (clearly stating they're unsafe) is beyond me!

I was hit as a child, nothing too serious tbh, maybe the wooden spoon three/four times during my childhood when no punishment was working for me and I clearly didn't care. But just because I was hit when I was younger that doesn't mean I can read this and think 'ah yeah that isn't too bad actually.' Yes it is that bad.

Take note how he's hitting the kids that aren't actually his too. Your firstborn even has SEN and this man is literally grabbing and shoving him? To me this is worst than getting the occasional slap for bad behaviour. He's bullying him just because he can. You say DP wanted to be 'obeyed' by DS and he's then giving you the silent treatment when told he's in the wrong? Are you crazy? You won't leave because you don't want to be on UC and live in 'poverty.'

You chose to have four kids, if you can't support them properly and rather have them in an abusive situation for a few more years, then maybe you shouldn't have had so many kids? I hardly post detailed responses on MM but this has really rubbed me the wrong way. Your poor kids.

Your DP doesn't care. That's why he'll do what he wants with your kids and doesn't feel the need to apologise properly or see the wrong in what he's done. If he was even half apologetic maybe he wouldn't do it again.??
You've repeatedly told him it's unacceptable but are actually putting this man first by staying in a situation which allows this to happen again and again. Yet you say your son's wellbeing is your priority here.
How shameful

You're facilitating abuse, that makes you just as make the abuser as your partner.

@Unanananana

This is an adult male physically harming your 11 and 9 year old children and you are splitting hairs over correct phrasing? Are you that blind to his actions?

How can you love someone who hurts your children? I couldn't even look at someone who would even consider it, let alone profess to love them. Your poor kids.

This ^^

He is being aggressive. He doesn’t see it as a problem and continues to do so despite you repeatedly asking him not to. For some reason you are protecting him? The most constructive thing I can say is that you need to leave. And you will be so much happier for it. This man is not nice to you or your children.

Sorry, your partner is abusing your child and your only retort is 'I don't think it's against the law' ?!?!?

I'm only two posts in but that is absolutely shocking. Shocking behaviour OP, you are enabling abuse towards your children.

What will he do to your poor ds next time he loses his temper??? It doesnt bear thinking about.... Leave him and don't go back!!!

Those poor children.

There is no point wasting your pleas on this abusive poster. There isn't an ounce of empathy towards her children from her on any of her posts. Nothing will change.

Op you have NO idea how common it is for a step father to be horrendous to his step children especially when his bio children are in the picture.

Common. Not acceptable and it’s time we really changed this.

It is abuse. Your DP is being abusive and if you continue on this path your DS may decide on the future that you prioritised your husband over him and he’ll cut you out.

Your inaction is making you complicit.

Not buying this. Has to be a wind up

If you carry on letting him abuse your DS you could loose joint custody to your EXDH. What would you do if your son reports the abuse and you've done nothing about it? This man will not change. I think you need to protect all of your DC from him.

You've clearly normalised violence against children to the point where you are trying to argue that this isn't violence or illegal. This is a skewed perspective and incorrect. This IS violence and what you describe could certainly be interpreted as assault by the police. Regarding whether it is abuse - it's a pattern of emotional abuse (criticising and arguing) alongside random physical abuse (grabbing and shoving)
You are complicit with this because you talk about it not being acceptable but you don't leave therefore you don't protect him against further abuse.
Sure it will be hard to raise 4 children as a lone parent but you had 4 children willingly and you have a responsibility to all of them which you are currently not fulfilling towards your eldest.