So irritating having to constantly remind partner to take on mental load

[Fullyloaded]

E.g. I have to specifically point out things that need to be tidied up before the cleaner comes e.g. I come downstairs having been tidying upstairs to find my daughter's puzzle pieces all over the kitchen floor and partner's bowl on the side instead of in the dishwasher. "But I tidied the kitchen last night!" he says. Great, but the kitchen is now messy again and it needs to be tidy so she can clean. All of the heavy things I asked him to move last night are still on the landing. "But when you came up with my tea this morning you didn't tell me I had to move them straight away!" Yes, but you know the cleaner comes at 8am and she can't clean if they're not put away and she's now here. "You didn't tell me I had to strip the sheets!" We both sleep in that bed, and the cleaner will not be able to put the clean ones on if it's still made up. "Where are the clean sheets...?" OMFG!!!!!!!!!

And then if I ask for him to do multiple things I get told not to nag!!! JUST DO IT WITHOUT ME HAVING TO ASK!

Feeling very frustrated with the injustice of it all. I have talked to him about it, and in fairness he often is pretty good at making changes, but it just feels like an ongoing battle to remind him that if he calls himself a feminist he actually needs to assume an equal share of the mental load.

Tell me about your examples of partners shirking the mental load.

I doubt anyone will agree with me here 😁 but I would actually phone the cleaner and tell her you have a strange request but when she comes on X day, if there is anything she cannot do such as can't put the bedding on because the bed is not stripped or can't hoover because there are toys on the floor to please NOT tidy things away or strip the beds but leave whatever cannot be done without doing those extra things and tell her that of course she will be paid in full but you really need her to do this

Then when your husband sees the bed wasn't made, bits weren't cleaned and floors weren't hoovered you say yes, that's because the cleaner was unable to do her job since you didn't do what you needed to do.

I've told her that is what to do from now on. If there's stuff that shouldn't be there, leave the task undone.

I strongly suspect he will begin to do the tidying.

Having been a single parent for most of my kids lives, I am fully aware of what a “mental load” is and don’t need it spelling out. Given it was all on me.

Wanting things done to your particular standards is a self inflicted mental load. I have a dishwasher. I’m the one who loads and unloads it. Yet if someone was moaning at me that I’d left something on the side, which I often do, I’d tell them to shut up! I’d find always having to clear up after myself, the minute I finish doing something, absolutely exhausting and very annoying. I don’t want or need to live in a show home and I would very much resent someone expecting that of me. And for them to then nag me and tell me it’s such a heavy “mental load” on them?! I’d laugh in their face tbh. Threads like this make me glad I live alone.

This is starting to remind me of the times when I visit my mum. I do everything in my house (single mum as well) but when I visit her and try to help…

1. I start picking up the plates after dinner and she starts complaining she didn’t want me to stack them in x way.
2. Then she tells me off for putting them in the dishwasher as she prefers to wash them by hand.
3. I start washing them by hand and she starts to explain me how to wash them (I swear to god I have survived on my own with a house cleaner than hers for a good few decades).
4. she then corrects how I am putting the plates/glades in the rack to dry.
5. then she loses it and takes over saying I’m doing everything wrong.

So, as there is no way to please her and I will get a good shouting whether I help or not, I just stay out of the way, clean after myself and leave her to it.

It is just impossible to live up to the minutiae of her complicated standards. But such precision is what puts us off from helping more.

@Meruem

Having been a single parent for most of my kids lives, I am fully aware of what a “mental load” is and don’t need it spelling out. Given it was all on me.

Wanting things done to your particular standards is a self inflicted mental load. I have a dishwasher. I’m the one who loads and unloads it. Yet if someone was moaning at me that I’d left something on the side, which I often do, I’d tell them to shut up! I’d find always having to clear up after myself, the minute I finish doing something, absolutely exhausting and very annoying. I don’t want or need to live in a show home and I would very much resent someone expecting that of me. And for them to then nag me and tell me it’s such a heavy “mental load” on them?! I’d laugh in their face tbh. Threads like this make me glad I live alone.

But this post isn't about being asked to clear up immediately all the time. The cleaner was about to arrive and things needed to be put away and certain jobs needed doing by a certain time.

I'd hazard a guess that she's the one that organises the cleaner..... all he has to do was tidy some stuff away and strip the bed. Hardly strenuous chores 🙄

Maybe if you use a different frame of reference to explain it to him, he may be able to understand your point and your frustration ?

Try asking him

''Imagine you're at a new job.
Week 1 - Your main duties are a, b and c. Files for a are in cabinet 1, for b in cabinet 2 and for c in cabinet 3. You must have these completed every day.

Week 2 - Now you know a, b and c, you need to have jobs x, y and z done by Thu every week.

Week 3 - We've had a complaint that you've left dirty dishes in the kitchen. Here, everyone must clean up after themselves in the staff kitchen.

Week 4 - So you now have a good understanding of a, b and c, and have coped well doing x, y and z by Thurs, and thank you for taking on board the advice about keeping the staff kitchen tidy.

Week 5 - We've had complaints that you're forgetting to do a and b this week, and you also missed Thur's deadline for y and z........

Now, would your husband see himself as a 'good' employee in that scenario ? No, he wouldn't.
That is because he understands that it's his responsibility, once he's been made aware of what needs done and when, to remember and complete his 'work' duties. It's not his boss's responsibility to tell him repeatedly that he needs to do things, is it ? No ! He is quite rightly expected to think for himself !!

And it's not YOUR responsibility to repeatedly ask/tell him what needs done and when either !!!! You're not his 'supervisor' or his Mother !

Now ask him if he thinks he's a 'good' husband..............who takes on his fair share of the 'mental load' ??

Ask him if he'd be 'attracted' to a partner who acted like a helpless child who seemingly couldn't even think for themselves ? Who would always wait for 'instructions' and never took any initiative at home ??

You've already talked about what needs done and when. He's had the information required to get on and do the job. (He just doesn't think it's his bloody job, does he ?) He lives there too. He eats, he uses plates and cutlery, he wears clothes, he sleeps in the bed, he can see the 'mess' the same as you do !

He can either step up think for himself and take responsibility for doing his 50%, or he can find some other mug to play at being his Mummy, can't he ??

@gannett you've missed the point. This isn't about different standards. We both want the house to be tidy and clean. We both agreed a cleaner was the best way to achieve this. We both know what time the cleaner comes and what needs to be done by then (everything tidied away so she can clean - that's the arrangement and we can't afford to have her tidy as well.) These are not MY expectations, they are joint expectations and desires for what state we want the house to be. It's that he is seemingly incapable of taking the initiative to do the tasks which need to be done before the cleaner arrives and needs to be prompted, and if he is called out on not having done them, responds that he wasn't asked to do them.

@Joystir59

Men who expect women to service the household are not to be lived with. And.... No man can be a feminist, they can be allies though.

Why can't a man be a feminist?

In our house we split the rooms to prep for the cleaner. Dc know any Lego etc in bedroom or playroom floors will get hoovered up (she wouldn’t but we tell them that). Dh does the kitchen (biggest task) and I do other areas. It’s a whole family effort and even the kids know “Evelyn’s coming everything must be put away”.

*not actually her name.

Because they aren't directly oppressed by the patriarchy and they disempower wen when they declare themselves feminists. Feminism is a campaigning force for change, with the aim.of liberating women from oppression, by women for women. Men are members of the oppressing group, they directly benefit from the patriarchy. They can however be allies to feminists by helping with practical support to free women to campaign.

Every ten points I take half a day off or £50 to spend on whatever I want or whatever works for you. That way you understand there is a cost to my time and it’s not fair, and hopefully I can be less furious about it as for the first time it’s being recognised in some way.

Husband does do some chores but doesn't seem to get that the bathroom needs cleaning and the floor needs mopping etc. every once in a while. I've looked into getting a cleaner and how much it would cost...but I know there would be nothing but stress surrounding the tidying up beforehand (mainly me reminding him the cleaner is coming in etc. and could it help tidy) So, I've decided to bag the money I would have spent on the cleaner, do the cleaning and spend the money on myself and it makes me feel far less disgruntled about the whole thing!

I take virtually all of the emotional load of dc ( including one dc with SEN) and most of the mental load in terms of organising stuff around dcs - appointments, presents for parties, school related stuff etc. It gets very wearing.

I think the only thing that works is to have ownership of whole areas of mental load, not split the individual jobs between you.

So rather than him doing the cooking, but you having to meal plan and shop - give him the job of food planning, purchasing and cooking.
Don't think about it, don't prompt or remind, just eat and do the washing up.
If he doesn't think ahead and ensure he's got enough food in, checked dates etc then that's his problem and he will learn.

Similarly, one of you should be in charge of the cleaner - making sure everything is tidy, asking the cleaner what to do, dealing with problems, paying her.

One of you can deal with laundry, one with all school admin, one with all extra curriculars, one with everything to do with the car, one with the garden.
Keep your own jobs separate and take total responsibility for them. Don't get involved in the other person's job.
If you run out of food or clean clothes, it will be clear who caused the problem and who needs to fix it.

@NellieBertram it's a nice idea but I'm not sure that could work in practice with tidying up the house for the cleaner, I just don't have enough time and physical energy/strength to do it alone - I'm 7 months pregnant and shattered and we have a chaotic toddler who creates a lot of mess! It's too big a job for one person. But it is a good idea for smaller discrete tasks like the washing and cooking. He generally does take on some washing but it would be nice if I could just totally push that onto his plate, including the folding and putting away which he doesn't see as worthwhile, even though I wonder how much he would like stacks of washing all over the kitchen table on a permanent basis...

@Fullyloaded

That's not quite it - it's not about mismatched standards. We would both like the house to be clean, we both agreed to employ the cleaner and we both know that the house has to be tidy for the cleaner to clean. The fact is that he seems to want me to spoon-feed him every task to get the house tidy. I don't care how he tidies away the puzzle on the floor, but he should be able to look at the puzzle on the floor and think hmm, the cleaner won't be able to hoover or mop with the puzzle on the floor, I'd best pick it up!

Absolutely this - YANBU, these are absolutely not unreasonably expectations to have of a supposedly competent adult.

[quote 1MillionDollars]@timeisnotaline

I'm not sure where anybody makes assumptions of me, I literally don't know where it comes from. Let's just say this....believe me if you want to or not.

I have spent 12 years at home. I've been with my kids EVERY single motherfucking day. I have set up 3 business's (not million pounds ones) I've done other things too. I've also done 50% of the childcare at every turn apart from breastfeeding,so when I see the hateful comments towards men here I gets little annoyed.

I've fucking done it all and I resent it completely when I am told I am a man and we have it easy. Fuck that fucking shit, that's not fair on the men that do ACTUALLY pull their weight.

My ex did nothing. The only time she did something was when I supported her for 2 years whilst she studied full time snd I took care of everything else.

As mumsnet call it. The reverse.

So I've experienced the reverse.
[/quote]
Why are you so obsessed with making this thread about you? OP's situation is nothing to do with you. Stop being such a drama queen over someone else's issue.

@nocnoc

Why should you have to “get a house ready for a cleaner to clean” that’s weird. Do you think the queen goes around buck palace picking things up before the floor gets cleaned? I don’t get it. Can’t you find someone who will pick things up before they Hoover? Shouldn’t that be part of the package?

I've never had a cleaner who tidies up. I'm sure you can pay someone to do both if you have the money, but it's not usual. Every cleaner I've ever had cleans, and for them to effectively do that the house needs to be tidy.

think the only thing that works is to have ownership of whole areas of mental load, not split the individual jobs between you

I agree with this and it worked for us as well as doing our own laundry.
Physically it would make sense for you to meal plan and him to bend down and pick stuff up .

Op what is making all the mess that needs clearing up before the cleaner arrives? Toddler/ DH/ all of you?
Dont mean to be preachy but why not clear up as you go along?
Sounds naff but we had " tidy up time" every evening before toddler teatime.
5 minutes and all toys, shoes, crap cleared away, toddlers love it.
Also not getting out all the toys at once and putting jigsaws etc away.
Im quite cross that your DH is happy to let his heavily pregnant wife clear up, boot up the arse time !

@gannett

It's about always being the one that has to remember that things need doing.

As the slatternly half in my relationship the question I'd ask is: do things really need doing?

What happens if I leave a pile of clothes on the bedroom floor for a week? Nothing.

What happens if I leave a plate on the sideboard overnight even though the dishwasher is right there (and is in fact my job)? Nothing.

What happens if I don't hoover the stairs for two weeks? Nothing.

My home office, which DP doesn't get a say in, has chaotic piles of paper, mugs, reference books, three tops on the floor (that I can see) and for some unknown reason a plastic bag containing my hiking boots next to the printer. It's been there for months. I do not care and I like it like this. Equally my token efforts towards neatness in the rest of the house are only because DP is a neat freak, left to my own devices it'd be in much the same state as my office.

Does anything bad happen because my office is a tip? It does not. Does anything bad happen when DP is away and the rest of the house becomes a tip? It does not.

When a chore needs to be done straight away I'll do it (washing up, for instance). If it can be done tomorrow I'll do it tomorrow or even the next day. We both survive.

That is probably the mindset of all of your untidy partners. It's not that they don't bother taking on the mental load, it's that they don't think there's a mental load to take on because there are more important (and enjoyable) things to think about than bloody domestic chores. I would argue full-heartedly that reading the news online is a more worthwhile use of my time than sorting out those piles of papers, because being aware of current affairs is more important than being tidy. Ditto if I'm catching up wth friends or watching a film. Maintaining social relationships and having a cultural life are more important to me than being tidy.

Also, what on earth is the point of having a cleaner if "preparing for the cleaner to come round" turns into a chore of its own?

This is a real insight into how the partner not pulling their weight thinks, isn't it?

It's not that they don't realise they're not pulling their weight. It's that they have convinced themselves that not pulling their weight is actually evidence of their moral and intellectual superiority, because unlike the partner who is stopping them from living in squalor with their labour, they're simply too interesting and creative to bother with chores! Who has time for something as tedious as housework when you can be expanding your mind or socialising.

Of course, the endless tedium of household labour is good enough for the partner actually doing it, eh? They must love it! Or did it ever occur to you that they would also prefer to be seeing friends and reading interesting articles, and would have more time to do those things if you would pull your fucking weight instead of being so bloody selfish?

@sunflowerfieldsofgold it's not preachy to ask at all :) and I agree that tidying as we go would be the most effective way, but it's tied up with what some people have been vigorously banging on about this whole thread, mismatched 'standards' and not wanting to be a harpy and being more flexible (those comments actually got right up my nose, because I let so much slide!!!!) I would prefer for things to be tidy all the time, but equally my partner is happy with a certain amount of mess. I don't want to spend my whole time tidying and equally I don't want to spend my whole time asking him to tidy stuff up. So we subsist on a kind of not bombsite but not totally tidy basis which seems to lead to the fewest conflicts (plus he has a cupboard where i can shove his stuff, which annoys him, but my response is 'well don't leave it out' which he can't argue with). The cleaning day has been a great way of getting my tidiness needs met because it's set in stone and we both know what the deal is, but does require a push from us both to get it done. Toddler stuff is tidied away most days, but I'm sure you can appreciate that in 10 mins unsupervised a toddler can create A LOT of mess!

Mental load is an issue in our house. But out of everything, the one thing that drives me bonkers is food. If I don’t cook DP usually just won’t eat. And even if I’m not cooking/eating and he decides he will make himself something he will come and badger me to tell him what he should make himself. Same goes if I’m working and the DC need dinner. There’s a fridge and freezer full of food….pick something. I don’t care what it is. I don’t need to be in charge of what everyone eats all of the time!!!

It doesn't matter if some cleaners will or won't change bed sheets or wash cups up! OP and her DH have agreed with the cleaner that he/she won't do these things. Because if this the op's dh should look at things on the floor and realise that they need putting away before the cleaner arrives.

Tbh op have you tried just not telling him, or is he the kind of person that will happily live in a shit hole without ever having clean sheets? If he moans the cleaner hasn't done it then tell him why.

Tbh some of this stuff is learnt behaviour (with some people), is he choosing to be thick or is it because he knows you'll do it?

Sorry I quoted the wrong person!
Witch
I see what you mean about differing standards but its fairly adult to expect to live reasonably, hes not a 19 year old student, presumably?
I sat DH down and told him things had to change !

@Fullyloaded

That's not quite it - it's not about mismatched standards. We would both like the house to be clean, we both agreed to employ the cleaner and we both know that the house has to be tidy for the cleaner to clean. The fact is that he seems to want me to spoon-feed him every task to get the house tidy. I don't care how he tidies away the puzzle on the floor, but he should be able to look at the puzzle on the floor and think hmm, the cleaner won't be able to hoover or mop with the puzzle on the floor, I'd best pick it up!

Putting a bowl in the dishwasher whilst cleaning the kitchen, stripping the beds before making them, both jobs I’d expect a cleaner to do. If heavy boxes are in the way, the cleaner can vacuum around them. Tidying puzzle pieces away - that’s the job of the child who’s puzzle it is! If not, the cleaner should be perfectly capable of moving it out of their way?

[quote Fullyloaded]@NellieBertram it's a nice idea but I'm not sure that could work in practice with tidying up the house for the cleaner, I just don't have enough time and physical energy/strength to do it alone - I'm 7 months pregnant and shattered and we have a chaotic toddler who creates a lot of mess! It's too big a job for one person. But it is a good idea for smaller discrete tasks like the washing and cooking. He generally does take on some washing but it would be nice if I could just totally push that onto his plate, including the folding and putting away which he doesn't see as worthwhile, even though I wonder how much he would like stacks of washing all over the kitchen table on a permanent basis...[/quote]
Tidying the house the night before the cleaner comes surely can't be too much for one able bodied adult though?
Maybe give him the job of ensuring the house is tidy before the cleaner
Sit down and do a checklist with him so you both have a written agreement for what "tidy enough for the cleaner" actually means:

• toys all in toybox
• floors clear in every room
• cutlery/crockery all in dishwasher

and so on

(your job could be stripping the beds)

If he starts finding it too much to do the whole house tidy the night before the cleaner, he might decide it's better to put things away during the week.

@TempleofZoom

Sorry I quoted the wrong person! Witch I see what you mean about differing standards but its fairly adult to expect to live reasonably, hes not a 19 year old student, presumably? I sat DH down and told him things had to change !

What would you have done if he’d sat you down and told you things had to change? Living with someone is all about compromise. You each have your bottom line, and the compromise is somewhere in the middle.