So irritating having to constantly remind partner to take on mental load

[Fullyloaded]

E.g. I have to specifically point out things that need to be tidied up before the cleaner comes e.g. I come downstairs having been tidying upstairs to find my daughter's puzzle pieces all over the kitchen floor and partner's bowl on the side instead of in the dishwasher. "But I tidied the kitchen last night!" he says. Great, but the kitchen is now messy again and it needs to be tidy so she can clean. All of the heavy things I asked him to move last night are still on the landing. "But when you came up with my tea this morning you didn't tell me I had to move them straight away!" Yes, but you know the cleaner comes at 8am and she can't clean if they're not put away and she's now here. "You didn't tell me I had to strip the sheets!" We both sleep in that bed, and the cleaner will not be able to put the clean ones on if it's still made up. "Where are the clean sheets...?" OMFG!!!!!!!!!

And then if I ask for him to do multiple things I get told not to nag!!! JUST DO IT WITHOUT ME HAVING TO ASK!

Feeling very frustrated with the injustice of it all. I have talked to him about it, and in fairness he often is pretty good at making changes, but it just feels like an ongoing battle to remind him that if he calls himself a feminist he actually needs to assume an equal share of the mental load.

Tell me about your examples of partners shirking the mental load.

I have recently downloaded an app called The Organised Mum Method (TOMM). I hate the name, because I am hoping to use it precisely to stop these things being exclusively "Mum" jobs, but it is a great list of all the things that could/should need doing, split by room. There are standard lists for each day, but you can customise each day on the app to make it suit you.

I am hoping to find a way to share it to my DH's phone too, so that he can see what the app says needs doing and tick some things off. I am fortunate that DH regularly cleans and tidies off his own bat; he just doesn't always see the priorities! But this could work for you, as it is the app saying what needs doing rather than you?

@lunarlandscape I bloody love that response. Going to save to my phone and memorise! Thanks! It's the kind of thing that will resonate with him too, rather than me just screeching in frustration!

Sounds like micro management at home

@Anordinarymum

It's not the cleaner's job to change sheets

Did you write their job description? It is fairly standard.

@ivykaty44 Rtft. No it's not.

@HappyAsASandboy thanks, I'll check that out.

It’s never going to be equal but you have to decide which battle is worth fighting or you’ll be fighting all the time.
Why? Why shouldn't it be equal?

If he’s working full time and is generally a good egg then you have to let some things go.

And if the Op also works full time?

I wouldn’t be happy if my partner was nagging me about the things you are nagging about.

Do you always use such misogynistic language?

I’ve never understood what’s the point of having a cleaner if they don’t clean!

It's pretty standard to tidy before a cleaner arrives so thru can actually clean.

[quote Fullyloaded]@nocnoc

"It’s never going to be equal but you have to decide which battle is worth fighting or you’ll be fighting all the time."

WHY?! Why shouldn't it be equal? Why should I have to resign myself to having to project manage things?

"I wouldn’t nag about the bowl or the puzzle pieces and you could ask the cleaner to strip the bed. How often does she wash the bedsheets? Does it need to be done that often?" It's not just any of these things, you're missing the point. Beyond tidying the kitchen it's like he can't see anything else that needs to be cleared so she can clean, that it's either my responsibility to do, or to ask him to do.

"Jigsaw can be kicked into a corner and dealt with later." Perfect, if he'd do that it would be great, along with all the other million similar quick fixes. But he doesn't even do that. It all falls to me. Why can't he see it and think hmm, let's kick that into he corner and sort it out later?

"If he’s working full time and is generally a good egg then you have to let some things go." Hold on, I'M working full time. I'M generally a good egg. Why am I the one having to project manage it? Why does he get special allowances and not me?

"I've never understood the point of having a cleaner if they don’t clean!" Good grief. She does clean, but she can't clean with acres of shite everywhere. She comes 2.5hrs per fortnight and we don't clean in between, other than wiping the kitchen sides. If she had to tidy too it would be more like 5hrs (toddler) and we can't afford that.[/quote]
The question is more ‘why shouldn’t it be equal?’ but ‘why isn’t it?’

The truth is, and I’m not saying this to be snarky as it’s unhelpful to say- but despite him being a lazy fucker you have set up a home with him and had his child. He is comfortable. You are his PM. He doesn’t need to try because he’s ‘got you’. He’s not changing because he doesn’t give a shit and it’s easier for you to take the mental load.

He isn’t going to change and you can’t make him. He’s just going to run you ragged and make you feel like a nagging fishwife.

I want to say something helpful- but there isn’t really anything to say. You can’t make a grown man shape up- he has to want to. He doesn’t want to ease your mental load.

My husband has a key responsibility; the bathroom. It’s his domain and he can do it when he gets around to it but I accept no shame if it’s not perfect.

So my recommendation would be: precise Dickson of responsibilities (with little crossover if possible).

That was division 😳

Not the point of the thread but having a cleaner sounds like hard work! I would absolutely hate the pressure of having to have the whole house tidy for a cleaner. The jobs that are left for her to do are the easy part.

I think the term “mental load” is thrown around a lot on here. When really what you’re saying is you want your partner to think like you do. A bowl on the side does not equal a messy kitchen. And if you were to say, for example, “I’m jumping in the shower, can you strip the bed” that is not a huge burden on you. Should he just think to do it himself? Maybe. But are you perfect? Do you always get everything right? Sometimes I read about relationships on here and there seems to be no give and take anymore. If everything isn’t neatly split down the middle then somethings wrong.

I sometimes dream of buying those tiny placards on sticks you use to label sandwiches and just going round the house labelling things with things like 'I left this here for you to put in the dishwasher for me'

Essentially if a woman is left to do all the chores/ dometic tasks while the man relaxes and has down time its domestic abuse.
Particularly if there is verbal abuse when she asks him to do his share.
Many, many relationships are like this.
Its always " my DH is lovely, the nicest man"
Yep while you are doing everything, he is.
The minute he has to take responsibility for his own DC or domestic tasks he shows what a nasty shit he really is.

I would never live with another man if anything happened to DH, never .

@Meruem

Not the point of the thread but having a cleaner sounds like hard work! I would absolutely hate the pressure of having to have the whole house tidy for a cleaner. The jobs that are left for her to do are the easy part.

I think the term “mental load” is thrown around a lot on here. When really what you’re saying is you want your partner to think like you do. A bowl on the side does not equal a messy kitchen. And if you were to say, for example, “I’m jumping in the shower, can you strip the bed” that is not a huge burden on you. Should he just think to do it himself? Maybe. But are you perfect? Do you always get everything right? Sometimes I read about relationships on here and there seems to be no give and take anymore. If everything isn’t neatly split down the middle then somethings wrong.

Oh yes the woman gives and gives and gives. Fuck.That.Shit

I think the term “mental load” is thrown around a lot on here. When really what you’re saying is you want your partner to think like you do.
That's not what the mental load is. It's about always being the one that has to remember that things need doing. It's frustrating and exhausting.

It's sounds like the bowl on the side was the the straw the broke the camels back so to speak. As a one off it wouldn't be an issue but if it's a pattern of behaviour where the OP is constantly having to organise and take responsibility then I can see why sheds frustrated.

It's about always being the one that has to remember that things need doing.

As the slatternly half in my relationship the question I'd ask is: do things really need doing?

What happens if I leave a pile of clothes on the bedroom floor for a week? Nothing.

What happens if I leave a plate on the sideboard overnight even though the dishwasher is right there (and is in fact my job)? Nothing.

What happens if I don't hoover the stairs for two weeks? Nothing.

My home office, which DP doesn't get a say in, has chaotic piles of paper, mugs, reference books, three tops on the floor (that I can see) and for some unknown reason a plastic bag containing my hiking boots next to the printer. It's been there for months. I do not care and I like it like this. Equally my token efforts towards neatness in the rest of the house are only because DP is a neat freak, left to my own devices it'd be in much the same state as my office.

Does anything bad happen because my office is a tip? It does not. Does anything bad happen when DP is away and the rest of the house becomes a tip? It does not.

When a chore needs to be done straight away I'll do it (washing up, for instance). If it can be done tomorrow I'll do it tomorrow or even the next day. We both survive.

That is probably the mindset of all of your untidy partners. It's not that they don't bother taking on the mental load, it's that they don't think there's a mental load to take on because there are more important (and enjoyable) things to think about than bloody domestic chores. I would argue full-heartedly that reading the news online is a more worthwhile use of my time than sorting out those piles of papers, because being aware of current affairs is more important than being tidy. Ditto if I'm catching up wth friends or watching a film. Maintaining social relationships and having a cultural life are more important to me than being tidy.

Also, what on earth is the point of having a cleaner if "preparing for the cleaner to come round" turns into a chore of its own?

@SpinsForGin
That's not what the mental load is. It's about always being the one that has to remember that things need doing. It's frustrating and exhausting

Exactly.

Knowing (and ensuring) everyone has clean uniform/clothes
Knowing where refills or spare items are...and actually replacing the item!
Knowing and ensuring we haven't run out of key food/household items/toiletries
Knowing what day is charity day/dress up day at school
Knowing when extra curricular activities are and ensuring they have the right kit (see point 1)
Being updated with schools covid protocols and ensuring kids have masks (see point 1)
Knowing when school inset days/sports days/exams/concerts/end of term is etc are and booking time off
Remembering and buying cards/presents for birthdays/anniversaries etc
Making sure congestion charge account is in credit
Making sure school payment accounts are in credit and forms returned
Etc etc
And thats apart from doing the tidying and cleaning.
Each thing on their own isn't onerous but it would be so much easier if I wasn't the default person supposedly responsible for all of them.

My ex had 2 adult kids. I warned her as I was the stay at home dad that if she couldn't get them to help me out (they both laid on their beds until 1pm, didn't work) I would be on strike. I went on strike and stopped doing things. The place was a mess and I was creating a toxic environment according to her. Stop being a martyr to your own cause. My mum is the same, she gets annoyed when things aren't done when she expects them to be done or that people don't have the same standards/feeling as her.

I actually find this appalling. So out of four adults in the house, the only one actually working was also the one left to do all the housework. Absolutely disgusting.

I don't think stopping is the answer. You have to ask him to remind himself that these things are tasks like any other. He is able to scan the room before cleaner comes and register items on surfaces that prevent proper cleaning; realise that cup needs putting in dishwasher, puzzle away, washing put in washing basket. It's not hard.

As the slatternly half in my relationship the question I'd ask is: do things really need doing?

But it's not just about a clean or tidy house.
However, If nobody does the laundry then at some point you'll run out of clean clothes.
But it's much bigger than that..... it's remembering to do all the school based admin, book hair appointments, dental appointments etc.

[quote Fizbosshoes]@SpinsForGin
That's not what the mental load is. It's about always being the one that has to remember that things need doing. It's frustrating and exhausting

Exactly.

Knowing (and ensuring) everyone has clean uniform/clothes
Knowing where refills or spare items are...and actually replacing the item!
Knowing and ensuring we haven't run out of key food/household items/toiletries
Knowing what day is charity day/dress up day at school
Knowing when extra curricular activities are and ensuring they have the right kit (see point 1)
Being updated with schools covid protocols and ensuring kids have masks (see point 1)
Knowing when school inset days/sports days/exams/concerts/end of term is etc are and booking time off
Remembering and buying cards/presents for birthdays/anniversaries etc
Making sure congestion charge account is in credit
Making sure school payment accounts are in credit and forms returned
Etc etc
And thats apart from doing the tidying and cleaning.
Each thing on their own isn't onerous but it would be so much easier if I wasn't the default person supposedly responsible for all of them.[/quote]
Exactly.
You've put it far more eloquently than me.

@SpinsForGin

As the slatternly half in my relationship the question I'd ask is: do things really need doing?

But it's not just about a clean or tidy house.
However, If nobody does the laundry then at some point you'll run out of clean clothes.
But it's much bigger than that..... it's remembering to do all the school based admin, book hair appointments, dental appointments etc.

Laundry is my job! The basket was overflowing all week and I finally got off my arse to put on a load this morning. Don't think anyone's run out of clothes.

No kids (my domestic laziness is one of many reasons this was a good idea) but when it comes to boring life admin around house-buying, holidays etc I'm capable of working my way through that to-do list. That's another thing that comes at the expense of tidying, mind. Like I said, there are chores that NEED doing NOW (and if they don't the house purchase will fall through or we won't have anywhere to go on holiday) and chores that do not need doing (picking up the paper on the floor).

Laundry is my job! The basket was overflowing all week and I finally got off my arse to put on a load this morning. Don't think anyone's run out of clothes.

Well, good for you . That's not really about the mental load though is it? How about if laundry wasn't your job but you constantly had to remind someone to to because apparently they were incapable of remembering

No kids (my domestic laziness is one of many reasons this was a good idea) but when it comes to boring life admin around house-buying, holidays etc I'm capable of working my way through that to-do list. That's another thing that comes at the expense of tidying, mind. Like I said, there are chores that NEED doing NOW (and if they don't the house purchase will fall through or we won't have anywhere to go on holiday) and chores that do not need doing (picking up the paper on the floor).

Again, not really relevant. You're clearly capable of managing your own life admin. The mental load is when someone is relying on someone else to manage this for them.

How about if laundry wasn't your job but you constantly had to remind someone to to because apparently they were incapable of remembering

My point is it might have looked like I was "incapable of remembering" all week as the laundry basket continued to overflow. I have a feeling that some of you would have taken it on yourselves to constantly remind me, which would have done my head in. Because I WAS aware of it, I just hadn't got round to it, and have done so in my own time.

A lot of the things you constantly remind your partners about do not in fact need doing then and there. They can be done tomorrow or the day after. Divide the labour and let them get on with their share in their own time.

My point is it might have looked like I was "incapable of remembering" all week as the laundry basket continued to overflow. I have a feeling that some of you would have taken it on yourselves to constantly remind me, which would have done my head in. Because I WAS aware of it, I just hadn't got round to it, and have done so in my own time.

And if you had kids and they didn't have a clean uniform because you'd done it in your own time??

A lot of the things you constantly remind your partners about do not in fact need doing then and there. They can be done tomorrow or the day after. Divide the labour and let them get on with their share in their own time.

And when your kids homework hasn't been done or they've missed a friends party or don't have a present to take? Or when hair/dental/doctors appointments don't get made? Or they don't have shoes that fit?

FYI, I don't have to constantly remind my partner about how to be an adult but I've had previous relationships where Life admin was my responsibility. It breeds resentment.