So irritating having to constantly remind partner to take on mental load

[Fullyloaded]

E.g. I have to specifically point out things that need to be tidied up before the cleaner comes e.g. I come downstairs having been tidying upstairs to find my daughter's puzzle pieces all over the kitchen floor and partner's bowl on the side instead of in the dishwasher. "But I tidied the kitchen last night!" he says. Great, but the kitchen is now messy again and it needs to be tidy so she can clean. All of the heavy things I asked him to move last night are still on the landing. "But when you came up with my tea this morning you didn't tell me I had to move them straight away!" Yes, but you know the cleaner comes at 8am and she can't clean if they're not put away and she's now here. "You didn't tell me I had to strip the sheets!" We both sleep in that bed, and the cleaner will not be able to put the clean ones on if it's still made up. "Where are the clean sheets...?" OMFG!!!!!!!!!

And then if I ask for him to do multiple things I get told not to nag!!! JUST DO IT WITHOUT ME HAVING TO ASK!

Feeling very frustrated with the injustice of it all. I have talked to him about it, and in fairness he often is pretty good at making changes, but it just feels like an ongoing battle to remind him that if he calls himself a feminist he actually needs to assume an equal share of the mental load.

Tell me about your examples of partners shirking the mental load.

[quote 1MillionDollars]@timeisnotaline

I'm not sure where anybody makes assumptions of me, I literally don't know where it comes from. Let's just say this....believe me if you want to or not.

I have spent 12 years at home. I've been with my kids EVERY single motherfucking day. I have set up 3 business's (not million pounds ones) I've done other things too. I've also done 50% of the childcare at every turn apart from breastfeeding,so when I see the hateful comments towards men here I gets little annoyed.

I've fucking done it all and I resent it completely when I am told I am a man and we have it easy. Fuck that fucking shit, that's not fair on the men that do ACTUALLY pull their weight.

My ex did nothing. The only time she did something was when I supported her for 2 years whilst she studied full time snd I took care of everything else.

As mumsnet call it. The reverse.

So I've experienced the reverse.
[/quote]
Stop blaming the fact that you should not be telling women how they feel on the fact your in mumsnet
NOBODY anywhere whether online should be telling an entire group or an individual how they feel
It’s very strange that you still cannot see why this is a problem or why people take offence

Do you honestly feel it’s ok to make statements such as women believe this or women feel that ?
The op feels this and you believe that ???
Surely you can see that extremely condescending

Weird thread. Loads of posters are missing the point and talking about different standards when the OP is about the mental load of getting the house ready for a cleaner to clean. Why should she be the only one to have to think about it?

It’s never going to be equal but you have to decide which battle is worth fighting or you’ll be fighting all the time. I wouldn’t nag about the bowl or the puzzle pieces and you could ask the cleaner to strip the bed. How often does she wash the bedsheets? Does it need to be done that often? Be a bit more flexible. The sides don’t have to be totally cleared. Jigsaw can be kicked into a corner and dealt with later. If he’s working full time and is generally a good egg then you have to let some things go. I wouldn’t be happy if my partner was nagging me about the things you are nagging about. Things get left. It’s life. I’ve never understood what’s the point of having a cleaner if they don’t clean! Sticking the hoover round is the easy bit. I’ve got a robot that does that. The expectation for me would be to tidy the bowls off the side and pick up puzzle pieces so neither of us had to do it. He should also benefit from the cleaner

Why should you have to “get a house ready for a cleaner to clean” that’s weird. Do you think the queen goes around buck palace picking things up before the floor gets cleaned? I don’t get it. Can’t you find someone who will pick things up before they Hoover? Shouldn’t that be part of the package?

@1MillionDollars

So... You decide something should be done the way you want it done and he has to do it.

Why are you stripping the bedsheets, isn't that the job of the cleaner.

Sorry, these are the differences that don't work between men and women. A woman wants it done this way, a man just isn't bothered, which highlights my point why men and women shouldn't live together.

He's not right, you're not right, you just have a different way of doing things, but in this instance you're way is the right way.

This is pretty harsh when OP is actually saying they have to tidy the house for the cleaner coming at 8am.

If you're paying a cleaner to come then what's the point if they can't clean because of the mess?

They're both adults, and yes some of it may be about different standards but some of it is just about being an adult and knowing when you need to do things. It sounds like he is leaving a lot of things to her and being quite passive.

@nocnoc

Why should you have to “get a house ready for a cleaner to clean” that’s weird. Do you think the queen goes around buck palace picking things up before the floor gets cleaned? I don’t get it. Can’t you find someone who will pick things up before they Hoover? Shouldn’t that be part of the package?

No, cleaners generally won't do this. They will only clean where they have access, so if there was stuff all over the floor, they would generally clean around it.

They won't move all your stuff around and put it back where it belongs because they won't know what goes where. It's also much more intrusive actually moving people's things and you could easily get it wrong.

What you are talking about would be more like a maid/ housekeeper than a cleaner.

@nocnoc

Why should you have to “get a house ready for a cleaner to clean” that’s weird. Do you think the queen goes around buck palace picking things up before the floor gets cleaned? I don’t get it. Can’t you find someone who will pick things up before they Hoover? Shouldn’t that be part of the package?

So if you're paying for 2 hours of cleaning you'd be happy for half of that time to be spent loading the dishwasher and putting away shoes and toys? I'd prefer them to spend the 2 hours hoovering, mopping, cleaning bathrooms, skirting boards and dusting. You know, cleaning.

That said the OPs problem, that her partner takes no responsibility for the mental load in having a family probably extends to many other areas... meal planning, Christmas organisation, arranging and paying for kids activities, sorting homework, putting away laundry.

My solution (not for everyone I realise) is that I won't live with another adult again (especially while my kids are young). I am much happier just reliant on myself and not feeling let down by another adult not pulling their weight or feeling like a moaning nag for trying to resolve it. Take control.

This is such a strange thread. OP, I totally hear you. Women everywhere screaming “just do the stuff.. I’m not your motheeeeer” . I really think that’s where it goes wrong. Women generally do far more for their sons than their daughters, expecting the latter to be more self sufficient and concerned for other people’s needs.

My biggest bug bear is the expectation I sort all the gifts for everyone. I’ve this year stopped doing it and his mother didn’t get a bday gift (despite me saying to DH that it was coming up and be needed to sort). I’m sure the instinct is to blame me but I’m tired or it and until we just stop taking it on, I don’t think the complaining changes much (not in my house anyway)

[quote Pinkbucket]@1MillionDollars

If you don’t understand why that is wrong I honestly think you need to think about it . I don’t think there’s one women on this site or irl who will appreciate you going up to her and telling her ‘ let me tell you how you think ‘ let me tell you how women think ‘[/quote]
Too bad there isn't a block poster setting, he'd be on the list.
I sigh when I see his handle come up as I know he'll have hijacked the thread into some mansplaining rubbish. I do my best to ignore him rather than write fuck off.

Men who expect women to service the household are not to be lived with. And.... No man can be a feminist, they can be allies though.

My husband is pretty great at following instructions, tell him what needs doing and it will be done.
What he's not great at - actually looking around and seeing what needs doing, knowing what needs doing and cracking on without instruction. His favourite comeback from criticism is 'you didn't tell me'

I complain about this all the time. I want a joint manager, why am I the manager and you're the assistant. His response 'well if you tell me what needs doing and needs managing, I can do it too'
He can't understand that that still makes him the assistant!!!

Clearly I have no useful advice but I do feel your pain!

Do you think the queen goes around buck palace picking things up before the floor gets cleaned? I don’t get it

That's different. The Queen has live-in staff, including aides and other people who do organization-type stuff as well as the ones who clean and scrub. She will have people who organize her wardrobe and get things in and out of closets and cupboards. It's not the same as having a daily or cleaner who comes in to cleaning jobs.

Anyway, I have folding money betting that the queen does actually tidy her stuff away and would never drop things on the floor or jam things into the bookshelf or leave piles of clutter over counter-tops. Like her or not, you have to admit she is that kind of person!

I find myself using the phrase “ i feel like your mum sometimes and it’s really unattractive “ your example of the stuff on the landing really resonates.

If you told me to run round at 8am tidying up for a cleaner I'd ignore you too 🤷‍♀️

OP do you have an alexa or does your DH have a calendar or smart watch he uses to remind him of things?

You could try programming the things you have to remind him about repeatedly into his phone.

Set it up one time for example with the cleaner.
7am cleaner at 8am. pick up floor, strip bed, etc.

Then set it on repeat.
Let him know one time he's in charge of whatever task.
If he doesn't do it, it doesn't get done by you.

That comment from a PP mentioning her son knew his mum would take care of it sounds about right.

Hand him over whatever job along with the mental load that goes along with it. Draw a line in the sand that you don't do x anymore.

I gwet what you are saying OP. Every time he says 'But you didn't tell me it needed to be...' just look him in the eye and say 'It's not my job to tell you. It's your job to remember.When you expect me to remind you to do things you are putting me in the role of your mother or your housekeeper and I'm neither. We're equals.'

Feel exactly the same. By the time I moan at him for having to manage the constant mental list of everything that needs to be done, I get "but if you needed help, you should have asked!" Ahhhhhh! You live here too! You pay 50% of the bills, why don't you do 50% of the housework?! It has deffo gotten worse over the pandemic. Husband had gone back into the office but I still WFH so when I ask him to do things I get "why didn't you do it, you've been home all day, I actually have to work!" Aahhhh I work too! Just at home! Very frustrating. One of the things that really winds me up is when he complains he has no clean clothes for work (he could also put a laundry load on... no reason he can't) so I'm considering ONLY washing my clothes and seeing how he copes, just to show him how much I do. I'm hoping once he's forced to look out for himself (like I naturally look out for both of us) he'll get it. Good luck. This is not an easy one, we're contenting with millennia of conditioning, I'm afraid.

@Foxy333 I use that example too!!

@Seasonschange I also say that!

@Anotheronestatisticssuck I can 100% relate, if I write a list or ask him, he’ll do it. But I don’t want to do that... I’d like him to be proactive! It drives me crazy, how can they be so oblivious?

Living alone is very appealing!

My ex husband was like this. Its exhausting. He had to be told to do anything. Would walk past piles of clothes/toys/whatever. Couldn't remember what time the children needed to eat or what to feed them.

He was perfectly capable he just chose not to do it. When we split he told me it was because he didn't respect me. He was a charmer, not!!

What I'm trying to say is it is a conscious choice he is making. The decision is yours to continue to live this way or make changes. He won't change.

My Dp is similar. He's a very hands on dad, he works and often cooks - so what do I have to complain about...

He really doesn't do a bleddy thing housework wise and doesn't see any of it.

I was out all day at a funeral the other day - (travelling to and from, the funeral, wake and travel back) he was home all morning before work starting in the afternoon. I got home and had no time to do anything before the kdis got home. Dog had been sick and he had left it to me, dishes piled up, his dirty clothes everywhere, he'd had a bath and the bathroom had been out straight, he could have give the house a quick hoover too!

Yesterday morning I asked him to grab something out the car for me. 2 hours later he hadn't done it, no hardship for me to get it but annoying.

I had a migraine when I woke yesterday. He told me to stay in bed as he wasn't working until afternoon again and could take kids school and do some chores. He hadn't done a bleddy thing.

There's been times I've asked him why he can't fold his clothes or put stuff in the laundry basket. I tell him it literally takes a few seconds. He asks... well if it only takes a few seconds why don't you do it?!

He just doesn't see what I see. I don't get it!

@Evianontoast

Feel exactly the same. By the time I moan at him for having to manage the constant mental list of everything that needs to be done, I get "but if you needed help, you should have asked!" Ahhhhhh! You live here too! You pay 50% of the bills, why don't you do 50% of the housework?! It has deffo gotten worse over the pandemic. Husband had gone back into the office but I still WFH so when I ask him to do things I get "why didn't you do it, you've been home all day, I actually have to work!" Aahhhh I work too! Just at home! Very frustrating. One of the things that really winds me up is when he complains he has no clean clothes for work (he could also put a laundry load on... no reason he can't) so I'm considering ONLY washing my clothes and seeing how he copes, just to show him how much I do. I'm hoping once he's forced to look out for himself (like I naturally look out for both of us) he'll get it. Good luck. This is not an easy one, we're contenting with millennia of conditioning, I'm afraid.

I did this after my teens dumped the entire contents of their floordrobe into the empty laundry bin. I had asked earlier in the day if anyone had any laundry -no. So instigated everyone doing their own. Me , DH, Ds. I dont care if they have clean clothes anymore. They are adults, get on with it. We have a huge whirly thing outside and 2 heated airers. We negotiated days and that was it. I do 2 loads per week. We only wash when we have a full load and so its not uneconomical and they just get on with it. Strangely though, on MN it causes a huge froth about why it wouldnt work, uneconomical, blah , blah. Sometimes you have to step away so others step up. I found dividing tasks so that each person has total responsibility works better.

My now husband wasn’t a complete dick but he was messier and less competent than me when we moved in together.

When I got pregnant, my sister pointed out that this was my one big chance to rebalance this stuff. Ham-up how exhausted you are, fake pains, say you physically can’t do particular things even when you can. When he asked about household management issues -feign ignorance til he gets used to learning it for himself. Also tell him the house will need to get cleaner and tidier for when the baby come etc. This worked for me and he stepped up and took more responsibility.

Also after I’d gone back to work we both decided it would be good to do 4 day weeks each, to each have a day alone with DD, doing days out / fun stuff (and reduce nursery costs). So this also meant he learned how to do childcare. We do still bicker if I tell him how to do stuff («micro manage» him) but generally fairly equal and good. Good advice from my sister all those years ago.

The "just dont do it " comments really grate because actually if I don't do the chores the only person who feels aggrieved by it is me! The outcome is that the skivvy partner has to live in chaos while the other household occupants seem unaware until they eventually realise that there are no clean bowls/pants etc (and then they might simply wash the item they want to use!!)

My DC put birthday and Xmas lists on the fridge in advance of those dates. The default setting is that DH assumes I am taking care of the lists. (And the wrapping, and Christmas cards and any other Christmas prep) Last year I asked him to get some of the items. A week before Xmas i asked if he had ordered them and he told me he was "going to" . I had to do it there and then to make sure the bloody things arrived!

Just don't do it. When the cleaner asks why things aren't tidied so she can do her job, refer her to your husband and collectively ask him why.

@nocnoc

"It’s never going to be equal but you have to decide which battle is worth fighting or you’ll be fighting all the time."

WHY?! Why shouldn't it be equal? Why should I have to resign myself to having to project manage things?

"I wouldn’t nag about the bowl or the puzzle pieces and you could ask the cleaner to strip the bed. How often does she wash the bedsheets? Does it need to be done that often?" It's not just any of these things, you're missing the point. Beyond tidying the kitchen it's like he can't see anything else that needs to be cleared so she can clean, that it's either my responsibility to do, or to ask him to do.

"Jigsaw can be kicked into a corner and dealt with later." Perfect, if he'd do that it would be great, along with all the other million similar quick fixes. But he doesn't even do that. It all falls to me. Why can't he see it and think hmm, let's kick that into he corner and sort it out later?

"If he’s working full time and is generally a good egg then you have to let some things go." Hold on, I'M working full time. I'M generally a good egg. Why am I the one having to project manage it? Why does he get special allowances and not me?

"I've never understood the point of having a cleaner if they don’t clean!" Good grief. She does clean, but she can't clean with acres of shite everywhere. She comes 2.5hrs per fortnight and we don't clean in between, other than wiping the kitchen sides. If she had to tidy too it would be more like 5hrs (toddler) and we can't afford that.