...to think this could've been rape?

[lostintime0789]

Sat night, I got a little (too!) drunk and the bar I was at, ended up alone as I'd been out with a friend who deserted me!

Long story short, I got chatting to these 2 guys, but one of them in particular was becoming overly friendly, he seemed a nice guy.

Fast-forward around midnight, I was really drunk (even fell over ) and he invited me back to his place - I said no to this as I had to be in work Mon morning but he could come back to mine - I invited him...

We had sex, that I can recall, but the whole night is now pretty much a blur...

Mon morning, wakes up absolutely covered in bruises - around my throat, my legs, hips... thing is, I DO like rough sex so I have possibly told him this hence why he'd gotten so rough??

My mind has just been a bit all over the place these past few days, thinking surely he should have known I was far too drunk for all this to happen? He was pretty much sober btw

AIBU in thinking this, or was it just 2 people, a drunken night and some rough sex?? Just feeling really confused

@maddy68

You can still be drunk and give consent. I know I appear less drunk than I am when I'm smashed

If that wasn't the case I would never had had consentual sex geik the age of 16-30

You know yourself. If its usual to ask for rough sex when you're drunk then that's realistically what's happened.

How fucking dare you???

@lostintime0789

Hey all I'm a little better today though still sore for the poster who suggested my bruises could've been a result of my falling - No! I fell & hurt my leg - NOT my neck/face.

I admit, I DID consent (or at least give the impression I wanted it) initially, but when I blacked out, surely he should've stopped??

I do recall telling him 'no' again and again as I had to be up early fir work but he was insistent and kept on penetrating me.

I once had an ex around to my place, and I was a little tipsy - I tried it on and you know what he said? He said no because I was intoxicated and did not want to take advantage! How much of a complete comparison is this?!

I'm waiting to get some advice, but will definitely not be taking this further lawfully, unfortunately

Just seen this update.
If you remember saying no repeatedly then that's it.
You said no

He carried on raping you despite you repeatedly telling him no. You were definitely raled by anyone's definition. Even the blurred lines that some people may have had over you being drunk and willing can't be used in this case when you kept telling him no.

@lostintime0789 I hope you are doing as OK as possible, just in case these are any help these are links to rape crisis for help and support, and the NHS link if you want to seek any treatment for your injuries. I'm very sorry for what you have been through. If you want to leave this thread and start another it may be more helpful for you.

rapecrisis.org.uk

www.nhs.uk/live-well/sexual-health/help-after-rape-and-sexual-assault/

And @maddy68 here's a thought - you could actually apologise to a woman for telling her she hadn't been raped and her injuries were her fault for getting drunk and previous sexual history? As could every other person who said the same and minimised and excused and victim blamed? To the extent that bruises on her throat could be from falling over FFS. It was clear from the first post this was non consensual and the it's your fault you were drunk and were asking for it and you asked for it rough^^ comments are sickening. You should all be ashamed of your comments here and you could have the decency to apologise. But I doubt you will, you'll probably say that OP was drip feeding or you still think it's her own fault for being drunk, even though it was clear from the start what had happened. Excusing your behaviour the way people have excused the behaviour of this rapist. It's so frustrating and depressing.

I don't want to detail the thread as it should be for support for OP but some people need to take a good hard look at their posts here and their attitudes and educate themselves - for their sake of all women including themselves.

We need to be helping and supporting all women against male violence, not turning on each other, especially women who have been victims of it.

@WeBuiltCisCityOnSexistRoles thank you so much for your kind words, it means a lot & I will have a look at those links

I DO take a major portion of the responsibility for what has happened - I should NOT have let him come back to my place and should NOT have gotten so drunk (if in fact it was just the alcohol & I wasn't spiked) so trust me, I am beating myself up as it is.

It has opened my eyes a lot actually and made me want to hep others in these types of situations, so if anyone could point me in the right direction of places/organisations where I could help, that would be great

This was not your fault. The only person responsible for rape is the rapist, no matter what women were doing or drinking or wearing or past sexual history. As you said about your ex, men who aren't rapists won't have sex with women who they know are incapable of consenting - but a rapist will.

Sorry I fucked up the link. Here it is again. Please don't worry about helping other women and just focus on yourself for now (something women are socialised not to do, even at the best of times) and seek as much help and support as you need. Take as much time as you need. If you have people around you in RL you know will support you, it may help a lot - these things are hard to say out loud and "admit" to, but if you had been mugged or knocked over by a car, you wouldn't keep it to yourself - I know this is absolutely nothing like being mugged, but it's my clumsy comparison in that women shouldn't feel "shame" or "guilt" in situations where men have hurt them.

rapecrisis.org.uk/get-help/

OP this isn't your fault. It is akin to women getting the blame because they were dressed in a certain way. People aren't stupid. You know when there is real consent and if you're not sure, you wait until you are.

If a drunk man was falling down drunk and his wallet spilled out you wouldn't take it, even if he told you to take it, would you? However, if the next morning whilst sober, he wanted to give you it then it would be different because he would know what he was doing.

I got so drunk once that I asked a man in a party of he wanted a shag. Hours later when I had sobered up, he said what i had said and looking at my camera roll i could see that I had been talking and dancing with him. I couldn't even remember because I had blacked out. He had said no because he could see I was drunk and he's not a rapist. We ended up sleeping together many hours later when I had sobered up.

We have to normalise that unless you're sure then you err on the side of caution. If you're attracted to a drunk woman, you make sure she gets home and if in the morning or the next day she is willing then go ahead. And also getting invited to their home, agreeing to dinner etc does not mean they get guaranteed sex!

But in your case you said no.

*I admit, I DID consent (or at least give the impression I wanted it) initially, but when I blacked out, surely he should've stopped?? hmm

I do recall telling him 'no' again and again as I had to be up early fir work but he was insistent and kept on penetrating me.*

This couldn't be clearer imo - you withdrew consent. I understand why you don't feel like going down the legal route, but please do whatever you feel necessary to recover from this.

He's not a nice guy...he's a scum bag!

I think I would drink a lot less in future and not invite complete strangers back to your house. Really risky these days

@SpookyPumpkinPants

We are teetering towards 'poor little woman can't be expected to know her own mind'. Even if she consents and tells you what kind of sex she likes, you 'as the man' must decide if it's ok to have sex with the 'little woman' or not.

Way to go to hand the hard won equality back to the men.

Sleeplessem

You weren't there. You have NO idea if she consented or not, Christ she doesn't even remember. Maybe all men should carry a breathalyser with them to check the toxicity level of a woman before they have sex with her?

Totally agree

@Noavocado

Some posters on here should seriously have a word with themselves. De railing a thread made by a person in obvious distress to argue amongst each other is showing mumsnet at its worst. I'm aware people can be self absorbed but this thread takes it to a whole new level.

It’s actually called a debate

Look @SunflowerTed just stop with this shit now. It is very very clear from reading OPs posts that she said no and passed out. That is the end of it.

We can debate the ethics of ‘drunken incapacity’ until the cows come home. But this post goes further than that. She said no, he carried on. The end.

Stop blaming women for the actions of men!

Sounds like you should have gone home alone, he should have realised if you were that drunk.* Nice bit of victim blaming in the first sentence there!

As a Mum of a girl and a boy, I worry how they're both going to navigate the 20's honestly. Do I get my son to get some sort of signed waiver? No waiver required, just teach him not to rape women.

OP I'm so sorry this happened to you. And I'm so sorry for all the victim blaming on this thread. It seems some people still believe that it is the responsibility of women not to be raped, rather it being the responsibility of men not to rape.

I'd be wary personally of the police. My ex raped me many times. When I found the strength to report him for this and for him regularly beating me, the police officer told me it would be my word against his so there wasn't any point in taking it further. They said the fact I'd "let it go on so long" wouldn't go in my favour.

The conviction percentage for rape is so low, it's practically legal.

@SunflowerTed

I think I would drink a lot less in future and not invite complete strangers back to your house. Really risky these days

Thanks for this insightfully obvious advice there though did you skip the part where I mentioned I think I was spiked?

Bet you're a right judgemental piece of work

"OP I'm so sorry this happened to you. And I'm so sorry for all the victim blaming on this thread. It seems some people still believe that it is the responsibility of women not to be raped, rather it being the responsibility of men not to rape."

My thoughts exactly Averygoodllay having it happen to my DD no wonder she didn't want to proceed with it depressing that other women think this 🥺

@AveryGoodlay I am so so sorry you went through that and thank you for your kind comments, I actually can't believe some of the judgement, though it's clear that many women do NOT report it simply because of this - me included

@SunflowerTed Also, I think you've made your 'judgemental' point clear with your quoting multiple posters! Wow, hope something like this never happens to your friend, or daughter, or family etc.!

Oh OP, your comment on the previous page about recalling repeatedly saying no & being ignored, was not mentioned in the OP (& led to many people misunderstanding). Apologies, I was one of them. This makes the whole thing clear cut, it was 100% rape. You said no & he continued.

I would report him to the police. You have injuries that can be photographed which will definitely help the case. I understand if you don't want to because I've been raped more than once too under similar circumstances & didn't report. Whatever you do, give yourself a break & contact rape crisis for support.

@SpookyPumpkinPants

We are teetering towards 'poor little woman can't be expected to know her own mind'. Even if she consents and tells you what kind of sex she likes, you 'as the man' must decide if it's ok to have sex with the 'little woman' or not.

Way to go to hand the hard won equality back to the men.

Sleeplessem

You weren't there. You have NO idea if she consented or not, Christ she doesn't even remember. Maybe all men should carry a breathalyser with them to check the toxicity level of a woman before they have sex with her?

I agree with this, I’m afraid. I find the assertion that many on this thread are making - that someone who is drunk (but walking, talking - including about liking rough sex -, able to get themselves home, take someone with them and have sex with them) cannot consent to sex - to be absurd, to be honest.

If I went out tonight, had a few drinks, got chatting to a bloke who seemed a bit drunk and clumsy, but was making sense and invited me back to his… we did and we had sex. Did I sexually assault him? Was he not capable of consent, or was his judgement just impaired by the legal drug he’d taken (which is well known to impair good judgement!)?

I don’t have to be that drunk to not remember stuff the next day; again, alcohol will prevent the laying down of new memories at a certain dose, and it’s a dose at which the person can still be walking, talking relatively coherently, dancing, fighting, fucking, etc etc.

And waking up with someone inside you… well that depends on the circumstances, I’d have thought… was it the next day (that’s rape) or was it during the same sex session that you think you tacitly consented to, and you’d nodded off then came to, @lostintime0789? Depending on the position you were in, do you think he knew you were asleep? The context would be the key, and you know that better than anyone.

Ultimately, whether it meets a definition of rape or not, how you feel now is the important thing; that you’re safe (MAP and STI check), and that you get support for any trauma. In time you may want to analyse the factors involved in the situation (where your friend was, how you ended up so drunk, etc).

I got into so many dodgy situations when drunk as a young woman, did things I wouldn’t have done sober, and slept with people I wouldn’t have slept with sober. I chalked it up to experience and felt lucky that I never came to serious harm. Alcohol seriously impairs judgement.

@FuckYouCorona

Oh OP, your comment on the previous page about recalling repeatedly saying no & being ignored, was not mentioned in the OP (& led to many people misunderstanding). Apologies, I was one of them. This makes the whole thing clear cut, it was 100% rape. You said no & he continued.

I would report him to the police. You have injuries that can be photographed which will definitely help the case. I understand if you don't want to because I've been raped more than once too under similar circumstances & didn't report. Whatever you do, give yourself a break & contact rape crisis for support.

I didn’t see that?? Then yes of course that’s rape.

Just to update you guys... I decided to report it.

Police are still here, waiting for them to come back in to me, so will update more then

Well done OP. Look after yourself.