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Original poster

...to think this could've been rape?

222 replies

lostintime0789 · 09/11/2021 13:52

Sat night, I got a little (too!) drunk and the bar I was at, ended up alone as I'd been out with a friend who deserted me!

Long story short, I got chatting to these 2 guys, but one of them in particular was becoming overly friendly, he seemed a nice guy.

Fast-forward around midnight, I was really drunk (even fell over Blush) and he invited me back to his place - I said no to this as I had to be in work Mon morning but he could come back to mine - I invited him... Sad

We had sex, that I can recall, but the whole night is now pretty much a blur...

Mon morning, wakes up absolutely covered in bruises - around my throat, my legs, hips... thing is, I DO like rough sex so I have possibly told him this hence why he'd gotten so rough?? Hmm

SadMy mind has just been a bit all over the place these past few days, thinking surely he should have known I was far too drunk for all this to happen? He was pretty much sober btw

AIBU in thinking this, or was it just 2 people, a drunken night and some rough sex?? Just feeling really confused SadConfusedBlush

OP posts:
lostintime0789 · 09/11/2021 16:44

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ quotes deleted post.

Boulshired · 09/11/2021 16:46

Many women who have been raped would not have passed the incredible difficult bar to prosecute for rape. It does not remove you lived experience and does not stop you asking for help. Realistically it would be an incredible difficult case to bring but that is not a reflection on you.

Sleeplessem · 09/11/2021 17:07

Completely agree with this. Noone is to know what happened. You could have said yes and been consensual and he took this as enough, but equally you could have been totally out of it and gave no consent at all. It's so hard to know

Honestly wtf sort of comment is this? If she is too drunk to walk, she is too drunk to consent and that is the end of it. She woke up and he was inside her for gods sake, you cannot consent if you are unconscious. It makes no difference if she invited him back, cracked open a bottle of the fanciest wine, put on slow jams and her best undies and even put a condom on him before hand (obviously OP did not) she was unconscious.

Nefelibata86 · 09/11/2021 17:25

Sorry can’t bring myself to read all the messages but may be worth going to a sexual health type clinic for checking including internal exam. I’m sorry this has happened

CheltenhamLady · 09/11/2021 17:48

@Sleeplessem

Completely agree with this. Noone is to know what happened. You could have said yes and been consensual and he took this as enough, but equally you could have been totally out of it and gave no consent at all. It's so hard to know

Honestly wtf sort of comment is this? If she is too drunk to walk, she is too drunk to consent and that is the end of it. She woke up and he was inside her for gods sake, you cannot consent if you are unconscious. It makes no difference if she invited him back, cracked open a bottle of the fanciest wine, put on slow jams and her best undies and even put a condom on him before hand (obviously OP did not) she was unconscious.

So, by that rationale, he was entering her house without permission too?

If she invited him to come home with her in the condition she was in, could she not equally have consented to sex? The OP doesn't know if she consented or not, nor do we, so none of us can say definitively if it was rape.

category12 · 09/11/2021 17:50

@TeachesOfPeaches

I knew of a guy years ago who lived near a town centre and would wait until 2am or 3am and look for drunk women who were alone and invite them back to his so they could rest or call a taxi etc. He would have sex with them, he was totally sober.

Said it was a waste of money going out and buying women drinks when you could just pick them up at the end.

That's disgusting. I think I threw up a little in my mouth.
category12 · 09/11/2021 17:52

OP, I'm so sorry.

You might find it helpful to speak to Rape Crisis.

Porcupineintherough · 09/11/2021 17:57

@Sleeplessem she was quite clearly able to walk and talk. It's what happened after she took him home and to bed that determine whether it was rape or not. And yes, fading in and out of consciousness during sex suggest it was but it's not even clear if it started out like that.

GoGoGretaDoll · 09/11/2021 18:06

@LarryVeest

How much of an utter cunt would you have to be to go back to a stranger's home when they're drunk, and (even if they asked for it) have such rough sex that you leave bruises all over their body and neck. It's completely inexcusable. Can you imagine doing that to someone?
I think, if nothing else, it exposes all the 'oh BDSM is always completely consensual and depends on open communication and clear consent' BS we're usually fed around 'rough' sex.
Sakurami · 09/11/2021 18:18

Decent men don't have sex with very drunk women they've just met. It may not be officially rape and hard to prove but I still consider it as rape.

Valeriekat · 09/11/2021 18:20

This might be a dumb question from a 62 year old woman but what exactly IS rough sex? I get fast and furious but bruising?

Aubree17 · 09/11/2021 18:23

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk guidelines.

madmumofteens · 09/11/2021 18:30

I hope you're ok OP a decent man would have realised that you were incapable of giving consent 💐 you should talk to someone in RL there is support out there look after yourself x

Puffalicious · 09/11/2021 18:42

Thankyou Cheltenhamlady I was going on the OP's own statement that she doesn't know if it was consensual and it wasn't at all clear that she was unconscious when the sex started/ happened. If she wasn't it is indeed rape, but that wasn't clear at all sleeplessem so don't get angry at me. I notice that you chose to omit the part where I said that the OP should get proper help and validated her feelings no matter what happened Hmm

Melsuleenia · 09/11/2021 18:49

It is rape. I'm do sorry. However you now procede (and I'm sure you already have). Please take pictures. Unmumsnetty hugs x

Nc4post99 · 09/11/2021 18:59

[quote Porcupineintherough]@Sleeplessem she was quite clearly able to walk and talk. It's what happened after she took him home and to bed that determine whether it was rape or not. And yes, fading in and out of consciousness during sex suggest it was but it's not even clear if it started out like that.[/quote]
Sorry @Porcupineintherough but if she was fall down drunk, which is what OP is saying she was, then she is in no fit state to consent to anything. Even if she verbally said ‘yes man, I consent to this sexual act’ that consent is negated by the fact that she was drunk or worse fucking unconscious. Honestly what sort of person has sex with someone on the verge of passing out? And then bloody continues when they are unconscious? Good god how low have we set the bar of morality for men?!

Christ it’s comments like this why women don’t come forward because they are perpetually doubted m.

TowandaForever · 09/11/2021 19:00

@sillysmiles

Surely if you fall asleep during sex your partner should immediately stop?!

Dery · 09/11/2021 19:02

"Some man would take advantage of drunken woman in bars. There is not doubt about this. Nowadays girls stay together so that those spiking drinks do not take advantage.

Go out with friends that do not leave you behind. I am not victim shaming but things are bad in clubs at the moment and could have been much worse."

This with bells on. Again, not victim-blaming, but I have drummed it into my teenage daughters never to abandon a female friend in a bar or similar especially if she has been drinking. It really does look like you were raped and he must have been very rough indeed to cover you in bruises. He sounds really dangerous to me. Women have been killed in similar circumstances (either through rough sex or travelling home alone very late at night after going out clubbing (e.g. Libby Squire)). It's just not worth the risk.

Sleeplessem · 09/11/2021 19:03

@CheltenhamLady consent can be revoked at any time, and surely the epitome of revoked consent would be being unconscious!

Sleeplessem · 09/11/2021 19:05

@Puffalicious

Thankyou Cheltenhamlady I was going on the OP's own statement that she doesn't know if it was consensual and it wasn't at all clear that she was unconscious when the sex started/ happened. If she wasn't it is indeed rape, but that wasn't clear at all sleeplessem so don't get angry at me. I notice that you chose to omit the part where I said that the OP should get proper help and validated her feelings no matter what happened Hmm
@Puffalicious, it’s hardly validating someone’s feelings when you teeter on the verge of victim blaming. Plus one sage sentence doesn’t abrogate the toxicity of the first part of the comment!
Dery · 09/11/2021 19:06

Also agree with PP, OP - you did nothing wrong. You were vulnerable; this guy knew it and exploited it. It was rape. Unfortunately, you are very unlikely to get a conviction on these facts but like PP's have suggested, you should probably speak to a Rape Crisis service.

HotPeppasauce2 · 09/11/2021 19:07

@Greenrubber

Also how do you know he was sober?
Exactly. How can OP rember this?

I think posters are out of order to scream rape. Going off a one sided story.

MNHQ
MillieMumsnet · 09/11/2021 19:10

Sorry to interrupt your thread, OP Flowers , we just wanted to remind everyone that we do not advocate victim blaming on Mumsnet, and link to our We Believe You campaign – please do have a read. We will remove victim-blaming posts, so please do report any of these that you see, and we will take a closer look.

CheltenhamLady · 09/11/2021 19:12

If the OP doesn't know if she consented or not, how could rape be proven?

Arguably, it should not be able to be proven (beyond reasonable doubt) either.

Undoubtedly, the man did not act honourably (for want of a stronger term) but that doesn't make it rape.

Sleeplessem · 09/11/2021 19:22

@CheltenhamLady

If the OP doesn't know if she consented or not, how could rape be proven?

Arguably, it should not be able to be proven (beyond reasonable doubt) either.

Undoubtedly, the man did not act honourably (for want of a stronger term) but that doesn't make it rape.

Are you purposely being daft @CheltenhamLady?just because a crime cannot be proven or land in a conviction doesn’t mean it didn’t occur. Most rape cases unfortunately don’t end in a conviction because it is difficult to prove beyond reasonable doubt, and because of backwards and misogynistic attitudes as per those displayed on this thread.

Please refer to the below link to learn more about what constitutes as consent and what doesn’t

rapecrisis.org.uk/get-informed/about-sexual-violence/sexual-consent/

As a brief summary:

If someone is unconscious they can’t consent
If someone is intoxicated they can’t consent
If someone is underage they can’t consent

👍🏻