DH has changed for the better and I’m still not happy

[Avocadowannabe]

I had a thread over the summer where I left DH for five weeks and then went back.
The backdrop was that he’d opted out of the dc and family life since dc1 was born 13 years ago and I’d operated largely on my own. As soon as I left he immediately was saying all the right stuff, I didn’t have to tell him.
We moved back in - mainly due to my dd being so upset and pressure from my parents to do so.
And to be fair he is a changed man. Since we moved back in September I’ve had two nights away, he is doing half of the morning school runs (I work 30 hours a week and prior to this was doing absolutely everything), he is better with the dc, he hasn’t been off doing his hobby (although I have no issue with him having a hobby tbh, even though it was every weekend and several evenings a week, I get he needs some time to himself too, it’s been his own choice to give up for now).
He’s been saying all the right things, he says he was unreasonable and his behaviour was a ‘piss take.’ He was originally putting some pressure on around sex but has backed off somewhat. Not entirely mind you, but somewhat, because sex has been a major issue for us as in we never have it. He has ordered a new iron and says he’s going to learn how to use the washing machine and do half the washing and ironing. He says he is going to cook dinner three times a week - please bear in mind that prior to this not once ever. He is doing bedtime for the youngest dc two or three nights a week - again not once prior to this.

He’s being more reasonable over the money. I ordered the dc some winter clothes and he paid. He has recognised that they are expensive and taking them out places is expensive. He’s being much more willing to discuss money.

And yet there’s still something about our dynamic that seems off. He wants me sat next to him or near him all the time. He holds onto me when I try and pull away and demands ‘one more kiss.’ I don’t know, it’s still not right and it should be. I’m finding it frustrating that I do not feel better than I do. The dc are happier I think. DH keeps saying he’s happier and how he’d much rather spend time with us than anything else which makes me slightly 🙄 because he’s had years to do that and hasn’t.
I still feel anxious and sad. I’m considering going to my parents’ for the weekend - just me - because I don’t understand what’s wrong with me. I want to want it to work. I should be happy and I am not. Why am I not? We have gone from spending a lot of time with my parents to never seeing them. DH says if I want to go out with them for the day we can all go, but my parents don’t like him. Consequently since September I’ve barely seen them and nor have the dc.
He says I need to talk to him and tell him how I’m feeling. He is absolutely not at fault here. But I still feel disconnected.

OP, I would say your marriage is over. I realise that's very hard to deal with. I would start making plans now. Never mind what other people think. I can't see how you can come back from this really.

His efforts sound transactional - he doing these things for a specific return and making you out to be the bad guy, when this is a result of his legacy of selfishness.

Love just doesn't work like this. There is nothing wrong with you, at all.

Someone who takes the piss so consistently for more than a decade, but can magically flick and switch and do 'all the right things' (FWIW - it still sounds like an utterly pathetic effort on his part) is just an utter dick. He knew he was shitting on you from a great height, and he waited until you were going to take away the good thing he had going before he stepped up. Not when your kids were tiny and presumably his input would have been much more valuable, not when you were asking him to at least pull his weight all those times over the years, only when it began to inconvenience him. He's a shit and he hasn't changed, because if he had, he would be mortified at his previous behaviour and giving you space and time to see if you still want to be with him, not prancing around making a big performance of his half-hearted efforts to redeem himself and making you even more miserable.

I remember my dad asking me if my ex changed the bits that were abusive (controlling, jealous, financially abusive and didn't lift a finger with home or kids) would I want to stay. And I said that my feelings for him and changed so no, couldn't go back.

You've had 13 years of this behaviour and doing some bits and then harassing you is not going to change how you feel.

And you've gone back out of pressure and not your own volition.

This isn't your fault and it might not be fixable. But the way he's going about it is just driving you away.

He's doing as little as he thinks he can get away with and still serve his purpose, which is to make you 'work' again (the PP with the "'good husband' tokens" had a spot-on, albeit chilling, analogy). Parallel to that, he is making suffocating emotional demands, partly with the purpose of reminding you that he may be on best behaviour (for now) but it's still fundamentally all about him, and partly out of a complete inability/unwillingness to relate to you as another human being whose needs are just as legitimate and important as his own. There's a horrifying level of objectification coming through from your posts - he seems to see you as existing to provide him with practical, sexual and emotional services, and while he may see the need to do a bit of 'maintenance' (= housework) to get you back running smoothly, he can't (won't) reflect at all on a deeper level about what has been going on for YOU and what YOU need now.
If he had really changed the way you need him to, not only would he be doing a lot more than the derisory token efforts you list (the washing machine, for example, would have long since been mastered), he would be backing right off in an emotional capacity. Not doing this compulsive imposing of his own wants on you.

I think you need, for your own emotional survival, to leave. I'm sorry your parents aren't more supportive. You may have to plan this more in the long term if you think going back to them as a stopgap wouldn't be an option, but you are not going to find the happiness you seek and deserve with your husband, and quite frankly you owe him nothing.

He doesn't sound better, just a different kind of awful. It sounds like he's someone from another planet - he sort of knows the things decent husbands and father humans do so is making vague gestures in that direction in the hope you won't notice he's got a small green extra head.

I don't think you love him any more which is hardly surprising and I don't think that's going to change. And I don't think he loves you either. I think the only reason either of you are still together is because of the hassle and inconvenience of divorce and public admission that the marriage has failed.

It's not a good reason to stay together.

And I also wonder if you could benefit from some therapy. The fact that your parents don't like him to the extent they don't want to see him but pushed you into reconciliation is very off.

This sounds very much like my ex. He wasn't quite as overtly controlling about me going out but still, a lot of this is so familiar to me.

Don't beat yourself up about going back and trying again. You're obviously a really nice person and want to be fair to everyone. Unfortunately your H has used your niceness to manipulate you into being at his beck and call and doing everything in his way and under his terms. I'm going to shout this now - HE'S TOTALLY SELFISH AND WILL NOT CHANGE. He can put on the appearance of trying to change, he can talk the talk but it's pretty obvious that he's got no intention of walking the walk. He just wants you back in your box and under his control.

I went though similar agonies thinking it wasn't bad enough to leave, I could put up with it 'for the children' but that's total bollocks. I'm 16 years down the line and my children are happy, successful and well adjusted. That wouldn't have happened if I'd have stayed as I probably would have had a breakdown at some point.

To give him his due my ex did step up once we'd separated and did a good share of parenting and kept his own house pretty well. The main reason for that though was that he was desperate to keep up appearances to the outside world that he had done nothing wrong and I'd just upped and left him for no reason. He will never 'get' why I left as in his mind he is always, always the victim and never ever 'wrong'.

I won't say it's easy to leave, it's not but you know this isn't a good relationship. It never will be a good relationship. Your H is not on your side, he doesn't have your back, what if you were ill? Do you feel as if you could rely on him to look after you?

This is probably all very overwhelming right now. Take your time, trust your gut. Make plans to leave.

You need to up your standards big time op and also stand up for yourself and what you want.

Who cares if parents pressure you. Who cares what he wants. Your kids will adjust overtime and respect the fact that you had a backbone. They will appreciate your happiness.

At the end of the day you have to live with him. Not anyone else. Potentionally to your dying day if this is what you settle for. So do yourself a favour and PUT YOURSELF FIRST

He sounds awful before and awful now. I would find someone pawing at me asking for 'just one kiss' revolting if I was trying to learn to trust them again. The amount of reassurance and control (when you went away) is off the chart.

No wonder you are still not happy, He's pretending to be a good husband instead of actually really being one!

Have I missed why you would drop your parents? Can you not see the some of the time as a well needed source of support.

He sounds ghastly and that, coupled with the fact it's all going to wear off very shortly, plus his demands for kisses and sex will ramp up- I would look to leave.

@DysmalRadius

Someone who takes the piss so consistently for more than a decade, but can magically flick and switch and do 'all the right things' (FWIW - it still sounds like an utterly pathetic effort on his part) is just an utter dick. He knew he was shitting on you from a great height, and he waited until you were going to take away the good thing he had going before he stepped up. Not when your kids were tiny and presumably his input would have been much more valuable, not when you were asking him to at least pull his weight all those times over the years, only when it began to inconvenience him. He's a shit and he hasn't changed, because if he had, he would be mortified at his previous behaviour and giving you space and time to see if you still want to be with him, not prancing around making a big performance of his half-hearted efforts to redeem himself and making you even more miserable.

Gross. So calculated, performative, self serving, deluded and narcissistic.

Oh I see your parents aren't on side. Just say 'mum, dad, I'm going to do what's best for me and the children' and leave it at that.

I've been through this looked after the house, kids etc while husband never helped with anything , I left, took kids , he promised he would change , I went back and he did change and I wasn't happy, the love had gone,I felt guilty so tried for a while but just got the ick didn't want him too touch me and found the whole neediness a turn off, once you get that feeling it doesn't go away I'm afraid .

The person is chose to be for 13 years is who he is and who he will revert to when he thinks he's got you back under the thumb.

All sounds a bit grim.

I like my DH but wouldn't be able to cope with feeling that dominated.

What stood out to me from your op, not read the whole thread yet, was he is GOING to learn to iron with the new iron and he is GOING to cook three times a week. He hasn't actually started doing these things. Actions speak far louder than words imo, and if he was genuinely trying to make things work, then he would be doing these things already.
As for not giving you space, that would make me retreat more.
Why wouldn't it be ok for you to go to your parents alone? Why does it need to be all of you going? That and he's allowed you to go out twice? Like others have said, he is controlling you, but in a much different way. Someone mentioned if he cooked a meal and something wasn't right with it, would you feel comfortable about telling him?
I think 13 years of his previous behaviour will have tarnished your view of him. If he is being genuine and sincere it will take a long time for you to get back what you once had. I just am not feeling from what you have written this is what you want anymore.

I think even if he was fantastic in every way, it'd be really hard to get past his previous behaviour -it sounds like he was extremely controlling, self-centred and abusive. From what you say it seems like he controlled money and basically wouldn't let you go anywhere - is that right?

@Avocadowannabe

I'm a therapist, and it's worth looking at family dynamics a little to understand why you will not get the kind of support from your parents that you're wanting and needing.

The kind of people who tolerate being in abusive/coercive relationships are ones whose barometer of what is normal and acceptable is off. It is 'off' because that barometer was shaped by the interpersonal dynamics of their family of birth. So the family of birth will, almost every time, be either abusive or lacking in some critical way - and a child coming out of that will then choose their relationships based on that.

This is why it's important to get external assistance - both in the mirroring you're getting here on this board, but also in the form of a therapist or counsellor who is well acquainted with abusive relationships.

Never rely on your family. They're often the source of the problem you're facing now.

Is there really anything he could do after thirteen years of acting like that? How could you ever trust him or find him attractive or forgive him? One year of opting out of family life would be difficult enough to see past but thirteen?!

It's too little too late and if he even makes half the changes he's claiming, it would only be a matter of time before he's back to his usual ways.

You really do deserve better.

I'd fuckin' divorce him.

I would.
This whole set up is as dead as Julius Caesar.

To me his behaviour doesn't sound reassuring but creepy. I know this is a reach but is there any way that he benefits from your being back together....stuff like his employer prefers married couples....and now I write it down it looks even reachier but my forst reaction from what you have said is still "what is he up to?"

He is still trying to persuade you to stay, give yourself time and space to sort out what you want, I don't think he will be able to keep this up for long, and will revert to type or get angry. Either way, if you are not happy, and have given yourself time to decide how you want to live, you will have no regrets later. My situation was different, in that he was having an affair for 4 years, but I gave him every chance to put a stop to it, and once I had realised I didn't want to live that way, that was it, I went to a solicitor the next day and started proceedings, knowing nothing could change my mind.

@TokyoSushi

This is no good OP, I bet he hasn't changed at all and this is just some sort of false, weird, act to keep you. I'd honestly be making plans to leave permanently, he did the damage in 13 years and it sounds like you've passed the point of no return.

Pretty much what I was going to say. You need to focus on yourself and your happiness, not on what your parents say or feel.

(As an aside 'learn how to use the washing machine' - that has my eyes rolling. An instruction booklet comes with it, clothes have labels, a bit of common sense goes an awful long way. I am sure he, and others who claim not to know how to operate domestic appliances, do far more complicated things in their work lives.)

I'm sorry OP, this sounds awful. I'm guessing that the constant clinginess is because he's worried you'll leave him, but that's his own fault for his total neglect of you. He needs to accept that this sense of uncertainty is a natural consequence of his dickishness and accept that things are up in the air instead of pressuring you for affection.

If you both want to see if things can work out, then he needs to completely come to terms with taking affection and sex at your pace without any guarantee of the outcome he wants. Really, he ought to be asking you what's comfortable for you and complying with any boundaries you state instead of piling on the pressure to force togetherness. The fact that he's only thinking about his emotional and physical needs instead of recognising that regaining your trust would be (rightly) a gradual process requiring some patience and self-restraint on his part makes me think he's not worthy of you. Sorry OP

perhaps its as simple as you just fell out of love with him?

And yet there’s still something about our dynamic that seems off. He wants me sat next to him or near him all the time. He holds onto me when I try and pull away and demands ‘one more kiss.’ I don’t know, it’s still not right and it should be. I’m finding it frustrating that I do not feel better than I do

I feel squashed. I would like some space but I don’t think that will go down very well. I had a night away with my friend and he called me six times and kept saying he was worried about the gap between us widening again.

Your instincts know this is controlling behaviour. He is waiting for things to settle and will become even more abusive. He may even push for another baby to get you dependent on him.