Can't even bloody buy a man's affection anymore

[Hummmph]

Just that, really.

I appear to be unable to pull at the grand old age of 35. I am highly successful in my job. I am active. Overweight, but I have a pretty face. Two adorable children. Skills and hobbies out of my ears. I volunteer.

And yet, every relationship I've ever had has been at best neglectful (I once counted 4 full weeks without him contacting me at all before breaking it off) and at worst phsically, emotionally and sexually abusive.

I have no friends due to many house moves and an early pregnancy.

So I decided, enough with trying to have a relationship. Let's have some fun and book someone for a bit of physical attention (NOT sex, just massages/ cuddles, because I'm lonely as fuck). Nice guy, a few messages back and forth. And now the booked job got changed for (I assume) somewhere more lucrative as I only wanted a couple of hours and not a whole night.

Bloody hell. If that wasn't a kick in the teeth I don't know what was. So I can't naturally pull a nice one and I can't even pay for someone to pretend I'm worth something for an evening. No real solution wanted, just sounding off.

There’s nothing wrong with you OP I’m sure, and tbh I think it would be just as easy to hook up with someone on a dating app for this sort of thing as to order an escort. I know that you don’t fancy this but the only difference is that the consent wouldn’t be coercively obtained via economic transaction. You’d get someone who actually wanted to give you a hug.

I do think buying a prostitute is extremely morally dubious. Even if it isn’t for sex.

@SleepingBunnies21

If men paid prostitutes to hug them, I don't think I'd have many objections to prostitution.

But some hug and some sleep with them!

If you buy chocolate from a business that sells cocaine - you are supporting drug trade, regardless of what you've bought.

@5128gap the odds are he hasn't been trafficked. He doesn't go to every job not knowing if he's going to be physically injured or raped or abused. He likely doesn't have to hand over a large portion of his earnings to someone he may be physically frightened of. Its more than likely he chose his work of his own free will from a range of other options.

Possibly but I respectfully say that it equally possible you could easily be wrong.

Male prostitutes (MPs) go to male clients after all too. Female clients could easily be abusive too but I agree with the fact that in general women are far more at risk from men than vice versa.

Just because they are MPs doesn't mean they are "safe" from the awful sides of prostitution.

I'm quite sure MP and FP have a lot of not pleasant aspects in common. While rape, pimps etc might be less likely as a MP I think we would be stupid to think that means it doesn't at all. I also think that MPs can be drawn into the life for the same reasons as women, trafficking, abuse, drugs etc.

I don't think I'm articulating my feelings very well on this but at the end of the day male or female, buying prostitutes male or female is just wrong. People aren't for sale. If you buy people you are not a good person.

There are so many other avenues to have a bit of companionship OP.

Oh, wow.

I have just come home and haven't even read half the thread yet. Having a decent job and being successful in it requires a fair bit of actual presence and work, hence why I usually only post at stupid o'clock in the morning or late-ish in the evening (I am literally waiting for food to cook while one of my children are keeping busy). How do I know I'm successful? I'm still moving up the ladder even though what feels like 1000s of obstacles are in the way, I am reasonably regularly promoted and receive an awful lot of praise in a highly critical environment.

To answer a few questions. I'm a 12-14 size-wise, so not massively fat, although small, so it does show a fair bit. I have been struggling with years of eating disorders (which is why I am now the size I am) so can't just diet my way out as it will just turn into another one.

I work long hours, usually around 12 at the moment, although I do have periods when I'm less busy and some 16-hour days on a bad one. So that makes the "dating process" difficult, even if I were open to online dating.

I have had counselling and am still on meds for anxiety, low self-esteem and depression, mainly caused by childhood abuse, which has clearly led to the adult relationships I've had.

My children have a large age gap, I have a teen and a young primary school child. Both are objectively lovely - always praised by school, very academic, both loving and caring souls. Not perfect, they are stubborn as heck sometimes, but well-loved by everyone they meet.

I did not want sex. I wanted a prolonged hug and at least pretend I'm liked, just for a little while. Eventually, someone who pretends the same to get in my knickers will come along, but right now, I am lonely and frustrated with the unfairness of life.

My hobbies are mostly creative (although I sell through a physical shop), but I have taken up some sporting activities and I am making an active effort to speak to lots of people. My voluntary work is not particularly people-facing, but interesting, though sporadic.

I think that answers most things? Let me finish food, get my kids into bed and then I'll read some more...

And yes I am being judgmental whoever called me that. I'm cool with judging people who pay for prostitution sex or not.

If you pay a man $10 for a hug a 50% of that $10 will go to a pimp. A pimp ALSO hires escorts that do sleep with clients. You are paying the pimp. Is it really hard to see for the 'she-wants-a-hug-not-sex' crowd?

I really wonder how some people get through life, when you have to explain things like you do to a five year old.

Also what happened to body positivity? OP ignore the comments about your weight, there are shallow people who care but there's also a wealth of people who don't give a shiny shit what someone weighs.

God this thread is depressing, woman you are only as valuable as long as you are x weight, x size boobs/bum/legs/waist rubbish!

Have you tried Tinder? Genuinely is just a hook up/sex app.

I'm a size 12, I've never had a problem. Can literally sleep with a different man every weekend if you want to, but I'm sure some would just like a nice date and some company.

As the Beatles once asked "all the lonely people, where do they belong?"

They belong on Tinder 🤣

Re the double standards... Hypothetically, if op was paying this man for sex (I know you weren't), that isn't directly comparable to a man paying a woman for sex. There is a clear power imbalance between men and the women they pay for sex. Male violence towards women is much more common and potentially fatal. Obviously there are cases where women are stronger, more violent, more sexually entitled than the man they are sleeping with, but statistically speaking, it is less likely that a man being paid for sex by a woman is in a less dangerous position. There are a number of STIs which are more easily passed from male to female sexual partners than from female to male (eg HIV).

Not to say that paying any human being for physical intimacy is right btw, but just saying that it isn't "the biggest double standard in the history of the woooooorld" or whatever the hyperbole being spouted on here was. They aren't exactly the same.

Too many lesses!

...is likely to be in a less dangerous position

Or

...is less likely to be in a dangerous position

My head hurts after reading this thread.

Hey OP, I second the suggestion to take up dancing such as salsa, find a nice friendly group and dance people are very huggy even off the dance floor also I think someone mentioned cuddle therapy, definitely look into that.

Might sound like a tangent, but are you familiar with the book The Body Keeps the Score? Really interesting take on how to recover from trauma which might be good food for thought.

@Veronika13

If you pay a man $10 for a hug a 50% of that $10 will go to a pimp. A pimp ALSO hires escorts that do sleep with clients. You are paying the pimp. Is it really hard to see for the 'she-wants-a-hug-not-sex' crowd?

I really wonder how some people get through life, when you have to explain things like you do to a five year old.

Are there a lot of pimps pimping out male escorts to women?

I think if it was as easy as just going on Tinder to find someone to hug her, the OP would have done that already.

My personal and extensive experience of dating through 5-6 years of being single was that you could find men for meaningless sex. However very few were honest about that, most wanted to play pretend, gaslighting you that they were 'crazy' about you, saying anything they thought a woman wanted to hear. But in reality all they wanted was sex and then to ghost you. It's the dishonesty, duplicity and mindgames of it all I found utterly wearing. Or the ones who got off on pushing your boundaries, or those who just wanted to keep arranging and rearranging dates and not meeting, and so on and so forth.

It's soul destroying and as I said above I'm not going to criticise the OP for trying to pay for an alternative, just as I wouldn't criticise a man who did the same. I do understand that there are multiple issues with prostitution and I'm not seeking to obvert or excuse that but by the same token as humans we do have a fundamental need for physical interaction and affection. I'm sure if a machine existed to give an accurate facsimile replacement of a physical hug they would sell millions.

The whole sex trade thing is a bit of a red herring - I think the OP was just trying to signal her sense of desperation. Still, it means a whole bunch of sermonising 'she's no better than she ought' can come along, along with the lose weight blah blah blah blah blah. Gok Wan will be along any minute with a makeover I'm sure.

But I also think the thread has touched a nerve. OP is expressing a frustration I am sure alot of women may have. What can she do? Obviously some daft escort giving her attention or a hug is not the answer.

I am sure OP will come to a realisation herself. Self-love, self-confidence, self-respect are something many women have to learn, especially if that was not a given earlier in life. But even if you are both beautiful on the inside and the outside - I believe there is no guarantee that other(s) will see it and anyway, really, it is not their responsibility to. I think you are brave to see the question and I hope you find some answers OP.

For film buffs only, I do remember 'American Gigolo' with Richard Gere and and the beautiful Lauren Hutton, and there was a pimp if I remember rightly,. I can't remember the ending, but Mr Gere was very cocky-cool-dancing and folding his clothes ..... I doubt Humphh you would have ended up with Richard Gere in Old Blighty though so lucky escape ....

@Veronika13

If you pay a man $10 for a hug a 50% of that $10 will go to a pimp. A pimp ALSO hires escorts that do sleep with clients. You are paying the pimp. Is it really hard to see for the 'she-wants-a-hug-not-sex' crowd?

I really wonder how some people get through life, when you have to explain things like you do to a five year old.

So the. issue isn’t that someone is paying for a hug. It’s the fact that person might ALSO be a prostitute.

Basically it’s not ok to get into a contract of any type with a prostitute…
Because that money. might or might not go to a pimp. And that’s bad…

Not just because the money may or may not go to a pimp.

I have a few issues with prostitution. The fact that there may be a pimp involved is part of it yes, but without a pimp the other issues still stand for me.

If you pay to go to a masseuse or a "professional cuddler" that's fine with me - these are services in which no exchange of funds for sexual contact happen.

If you pay a prostitute for non sexual bodily contact that is not ok because even though you are not using them for sex, the nature of their job is exploitation for sex and you are perpetuating the problem.

A PP made a good point about this with the factory that supplies cocaine as well as legal goods. Same principle.

People are not commodities that can be bought and sold or rented. When society deems treating people as such we are all harmed by that.

People as commodities has historically been such a laugh riot after all, it's never led to anything awful no siree.

pedantscorner

I am sorry you are going through this. I have come across quite a few successful and attractive women over the years who also never seemed to have any luck dating. I could never understand it. Everyone needs a bit of care. We can and we do carry on but yes it is lonely. I hope things will change for you and you can get the hugs you need xxx

@ZipOnBy

pedantscorner

I don't understand.

Sex aside, why are some people saying it's okay if it's just a hug?

Why is it okay to pay someone to touch them - when they DON'T WANT it? He might not want to spend the time in OP's company, he might not enjoy her company, he might not want to hug her. Hugging and spending 2 hours talking to someone is an intimate thing. But he'll have to do it cos he was paid? It's not okay to buy anyone's mind and soul, just like it's not okay to buy someone's body.

For those thinking 'well don't do the job then' - he might be doing the job for the same reasons prostitutes sell their body. Desperation, exploration, poverty.

*exploitation

OP i feel for you. Being lonely and craving human touch is just shit. And can make you make weird choices. I think you meed to reboot. Stop, think about what you really want and what ypu are prepared to compromise on. With a demanding job and kids you are very time poor.

A virtual hug to you.

You need to carve put some time to date i think. As underneath it all you are missing love and affection. Btw i was similar to you, lifewise, but bigger ( 14/16). I met my now partner OLD BUT was only looking for fun, and had been for a couple of years. I had one false start so then didn't want anything serious so had a couple of relationships with men a decade younger than me. Then lightening struck when i was 47.

Just keep going, stay open to possibilities. I wish you so much luck.

@Hummmph

I belive that what you are describing is actually pretty normal. Humans need touch to thrive. You just have to look at the effect of a hug on the brain and neurotransmitters. Or the reaction of some elderly when they receive a hand massage - (often they burst into tears because it's the first time someone has touched them for months or years). Or the effect on newborn babies.

Before Covid (I suspoet this has stopped now), there was a group meeting up every week just for that - giving each other a hug. You're not the only who is desperate for touch.

And yes we often get that through our relationhsip, sex, ONS, regular partners, and simply receiving & giving a hug to a close relative/friend. Clearly too, this is something some people have never experienced - the lack of touch and how soul destroying it is.

I personally believe that when you are single, finding ways to get some touch is important. From having a massage or a facial to nurturing those friendship with people who are a bit mote 'touchy feely'.
I am not sure what the answer is after. And whether there is an answer as such.