DP said my DD was racist

[salllysue]

Firstly, I just want to say that I apologise in advance if I use the wrong terminology in this post. I really don't want to upset anyone.

A bit of background -

DD is 14 and autistic. She's high functioning but has sensory and some social issues, and is extremely literal.

DP - I've been with him 4 years. We don't live together. He is quite opinionated and struggles if someone has a different opinion to him. I wouldn't say argumentative as such, but it can get a bit touchy. He gets on well with my DD.

My DD plays for a football team. Recently they have had 3 new girls join. We picked her up from training tonight and on the way back DP asked her how it was. She said it was ok and then said that all the new players are black and that they didn't have any beforehand. She didn't say anything further.

Now I know my DD, she wasn't being racist in the slightest (not all of her friends are white), she was just being her literal self and stating what she saw. DP was quiet on the way home.

We got back, DD went for a shower and DP turned round to me and said that it's awful that she could say something racist like that.

Long story short, he got extremely angry with me and said that I can't let her autism be an excuse for her to be racist. He would simply not listen to me saying that she wasn't, she was just saying her thoughts out loud.

After a few more words from DP about how she has been racist and I need to speak to her etc, he stomped off to the shop and has been off with me since being back.

I feel so upset that he has accused DD of this. I'd like to know other peoples take on it.

@Onelifeonly

In schools we have to report racist incidents to the governors (quantity rather than details). If a child says something inadvertently that others construe as racist, we explain this to them and record the event. It doesn't mean we think they are racist, it's just part of educating them not to be.

what kind of incidents have been reported ?

@Onelifeonly

In schools we have to report racist incidents to the governors (quantity rather than details). If a child says something inadvertently that others construe as racist, we explain this to them and record the event. It doesn't mean we think they are racist, it's just part of educating them not to be.

That doesn't make sense. You say you have to report racist incidents, then say you would report this. So according to schools this is racist. And if you say racist things, you are a what?

So schools consider this a racist incident? So would agree the dd in this instance ce was racist?

Who decides these things?

I saw a video not so long ago done by a black man about how people confuse this often however it does also depend on context.

He said something like if he were the only black person working in an office and someone was trying to point them out, by saying he was the black male is not racist.

But if he was a bouncer in a door alone and didn’t let someone in and they complained about the ‘black man’ that is using it negatively, as he’s the only bounced anyway so his colour is not relevant.

Your DD was described them as she observed them. It’s not racist if there was no malicious undertone. I find it strange a grown man would think it is? My only thought is did he hear it in a different tone to what she meant? - sounds like he needs to grow up and be a little more realistic.

@MyMabel Definitely no malicious undertone and it wasn't said with any tone to her voice.

[quote salllysue]@MyMabel Definitely no malicious undertone and it wasn't said with any tone to her voice. [/quote]

how is she OP ? I hope she is oblivious to your partners frustration. 🌸

@QueenBee52 She is good thank you! She didn't hear any of DP's rantings luckily as I imagine it would have made her feel rubbish.

@hekatestorch
Onelifeonly

In schools we have to report racist incidents to the governors (quantity rather than details). If a child says something inadvertently that others construe as racist, we explain this to them and record the event. It doesn't mean we think they are racist, it's just part of educating them not to be.

That doesn't make sense. You say you have to report racist incidents, then say you would report this. So according to schools this is racist. And if you say racist things, you are a what?

So schools consider this a racist incident? So would agree the dd in this instance ce was racist?

Who decides these things?

It makes perfect sense, you just haven't understood it. All schools (state anyway) have to do this. We record but don't report the actual incident - but could show what they are if asked.

I never said the OP's daughter was being racist and no that wouldn't be reported. If similar happened in school a teacher might chat to the child to explain how it could be misconstrued, if it was thought necessary.

I'm not going to describe any particular incident here (we barely have any) as it would be outing.

[quote salllysue]@QueenBee52 She is good thank you! She didn't hear any of DP's rantings luckily as I imagine it would have made her feel rubbish. [/quote]

That's good ... glad to hear that she's not aware of his outburst 🌸

She's not racist, but he is a bullying prick

@HelpingJane

Me and my children aren't novelties fgs.

I'm sick of this thread now, it's exhausting.

A girl in a boys team, a black child in a white team is novel.

The definition of novelty is "the quality of being new, original, or unusual."

These girls joining the team was new, original and unusual as it hadn't happened before.

He's an idiot.

On the other hand, it does begin to seem as though any descriptive mention of skin colour is increasingly taboo. I can accept this, and I will, but what is concerning is that above indescribable members of society do seem to be increasingly above any form of criticism. Or almost that criticism is forbidden for some people. 'We're all equal but some are more equal than others.'

It was forbidden to criticise in any way, the young men who failed to score penalties in the football match. If they had been white then criticism would have been allowed and would have been copious.

a girl in a boys team, a black child in a white team

@ancientgran. A boys team is a boys team. There won't be a 'white' team. We are not living in apartheid. It may so happen that all the players are white but it won't be a white team. Hth

You have a lot of replies, which I haven’t read, but i’m a POC and what she said isn’t racist.

Being “colourblind” - which is what I imagine he wanted her to be? - doesn’t work and isn’t helpful. It’s a form of erasure. I can link some articles if you like!

@Boxset00 Yes I've had some very helpful replies and some not so much. It can be so hard to try and explain autism to someone who has not really been around it. DD is harmless but has no filter. She just doesn't 'get' things like we may do.

Any articles would be much appreciated!

Most posters agree that your DD isn’t racist - just autistic. And that your DP was rude, temperamental and completely out of order.
However your position on how the remark could be construed was unclear. From one of your later posts it appears that you see it as indeed problematic.

As you can see from the discussion on this thread race is a sensitive topic full of nuances. Even so-called ‘NT’s’ disagree. I doubt that any articles on its intricacies will help - probably the opposite as it’s a minefield of contradictions and subjective ‘concepts’ rather than a straightforward do this - don’t do that.

You’re better off posting on the SEN boards on the general topic of discussing sensitive subjects with your autistic daughter.

I also showed my autistic DP this thread and he had some resources on talking about these things - he will dig them out if he can and pop them over…

[quote salllysue]@Boxset00 Yes I've had some very helpful replies and some not so much. It can be so hard to try and explain autism to someone who has not really been around it. DD is harmless but has no filter. She just doesn't 'get' things like we may do.

Any articles would be much appreciated! [/quote]
Was replying to this above…

@TractorAndHeadphones Thank you

I thought that the following might be a good resource for the Op and anyone else who would like to teach their children about racism or learn more about it for themselves:

kids.britannica.com/kids/article/racism/632495

Racism is when people are treated unfairly because of their skin color or background. It is a kind of discrimination, and it causes great harm to people.
Racism takes many forms. It happens when people call other people names or attack them physically. For African Americans in particular it also exists in the way that systems of government and society operate. This is known as systemic, or institutional, racism. For example, African Americans do not have the same chances as white people to go to good schools, get good jobs, live in safe neighborhoods, and have good health care. Movies, television shows, and books reflect racism as well. They often do not tell stories that show the history and lives of African Americans. Some schools do not teach about important African Americans and other people of color. In many cities there are also statues and monuments that honor people who had mistreated African Americans and Native Americans in the past. People who believe racism is wrong want those statues and monuments removed.
Although many people might know what racism is and agree that it is a problem, it affects people in different ways. For Blacks and other people of color, it is something they live with every day. White people often do not notice the problem because they do not know how it feels to be seen as different.

Following is a link to an article about racial colour blindness titled:

Being "Color Blind" Doesn't Make You Not Racist—In Fact, It Can Mean the Opposite
Experts say the belief makes improving things harder.
By Samantha

www.oprahdaily.com/life/relationships-love/a32824297/color-blind-myth-racism/

We picked her up from training tonight and on the way back DP asked her how it was. She said it was ok and then said that all the new players are black and that they didn't have any beforehand. She didn't say anything further.

I had a long think about this and why it made me feel uncomfortable.

Based on your account of what happened, your DP asked 'how was the game?' and your DD effectively replied 'it was okay and we have black people now.'

There's nothing wrong with describing someone's ethnicity or skin colour to identify them, as that's relevant. But mentioning there are people with a particular skin colour in response to the question of 'how was it today?' feels irrelevant, and that's what makes the answer feel potentially discriminatory.

To give you another example, if someone were to ask us 'what did you think of that driver?' and the response was 'ok - she's a woman', would you not rise an eyebrow as to why the additional information was relevant/necessary? By volunteering it out of place, it feels like some kind of judgement is being made - otherwise, why mention it?

I wouldn't bat an eyelid at someone describing my ethnicity in attempting to point me out in a crowd, but I would feel upset if they described what I do for a living and then randomly volunteered my skin colour. I think the context is really important here. Sometimes it's OK to comment on a feature, sometimes it's not.

You say your DD is autistic and says what she sees. If this example is representative of that, I think you need to get her ready for the real world, as it sounds like she is at risk of making a comment that gets misconstrued by her peers and that lands her in hot water.

There's a time and a place to say what you see. I appreciate there may have been no malicious intent here, but your DP is doing you in a favour in reacting in private before your DD makes a similar comment in public and makes herself unpopular.

It wouldn't even be racist for someone to say that if they weren't ASD/Literal. Facts aren't racist. If she wasn't disparaging, didn't mean any undertone etc then she was just... commenting. I think he's actually slightly more racist... thinking that the mentioning that people are black is somehow a negative.

It's not. Some people are black, some white, some brown. Mentioning it innocently is not racist.

It was forbidden to criticise in any way, the young men who failed to score penalties in the football match. If they had been white then criticism would have been allowed and would have been copious.

Err no it wasn’t but when fuckwits made their race part of the conversation, criticising their penalty taking skills took a backseat to calling out the racist abuse directed at them. The point you are spectacularly missing is that when Gareth Southgate missed his penalty all those years ago, his skin colour was never part of the criticism.

Urgh, are people really this myopic!

OP, your DP is an idiot. His need to be right, took precedent over taking the opportunity to explain how out of context your DD’s observation was.

Don’t let his behaviour distract you from your responsibility to to talk to your DD about context. Her observation of the new players was out of context. She answered a question that wasn’t asked. OP, I’m guessing you are NT and although you might accept your DD’s literal ness, there are countless situations where others wouldn’t. Even if the question was to describe someone’s appearance, literalness is not always appropriate. Describing Mary as a black woman, is a lot different to describing Mary as a morbidly obese woman. Both descriptions may be factual but I’d think you’d cringe at the latter and I’d hope you’d explain why.

Your DP’s immaturity is showing, are you really ok with this?

Not racist at all. He needs to get over himself as he sounds a prat

[quote salllysue]@Boxset00 Yes I've had some very helpful replies and some not so much. It can be so hard to try and explain autism to someone who has not really been around it. DD is harmless but has no filter. She just doesn't 'get' things like we may do.

Any articles would be much appreciated! [/quote]
It sounds like your partner doesn't understand Autism very well?
I'm an SEN teacher and I'm happy to DM you the names of a few FB groups which often have some good pictures and articles linked which help to explain things -- why don't you DM me @salllysue if you want the names ?