DP said my DD was racist

[salllysue]

Firstly, I just want to say that I apologise in advance if I use the wrong terminology in this post. I really don't want to upset anyone.

A bit of background -

DD is 14 and autistic. She's high functioning but has sensory and some social issues, and is extremely literal.

DP - I've been with him 4 years. We don't live together. He is quite opinionated and struggles if someone has a different opinion to him. I wouldn't say argumentative as such, but it can get a bit touchy. He gets on well with my DD.

My DD plays for a football team. Recently they have had 3 new girls join. We picked her up from training tonight and on the way back DP asked her how it was. She said it was ok and then said that all the new players are black and that they didn't have any beforehand. She didn't say anything further.

Now I know my DD, she wasn't being racist in the slightest (not all of her friends are white), she was just being her literal self and stating what she saw. DP was quiet on the way home.

We got back, DD went for a shower and DP turned round to me and said that it's awful that she could say something racist like that.

Long story short, he got extremely angry with me and said that I can't let her autism be an excuse for her to be racist. He would simply not listen to me saying that she wasn't, she was just saying her thoughts out loud.

After a few more words from DP about how she has been racist and I need to speak to her etc, he stomped off to the shop and has been off with me since being back.

I feel so upset that he has accused DD of this. I'd like to know other peoples take on it.

"As an adult she needs to absolutely understand that she cannot refer to a colleague as "the black girl", and would actually be at risk of disciplinary action."

Why though? I remember working in a summer job years ago. There were about 30 of us, all from the UK, one girl who was black - let's call her Janine - and another who was of Indian origin - let's call her Jane. It was only about the 2nd or 3rd day and and someone mentioned Janine. Jane asked who Janine was (as we didn't all know who was who yet) and I sat in bemusement as they all tried to describe Janine. You know, tall girl, slim, pretty, the one from Birmingham. Nope, Jane couldn't place her. I had to go and talk to the supervisor about something at this point. Later on that afternoon, Jane asked me who Janine was. I was like you know, the black girl. Jane immediately knew who she was but also looked visibly..I don't know, upset...shocked..? She said "why didn't they just say that?". I think she was probably a little hurt and felt awkward that everyone felt they couldn't point out someone's race to her. Now obviously the reason that they didn't say it was because they felt awkward. But honestly, what a bloody palaver, it was actually embarrassing to watch.

Why can't we just say the black girl? I wouldn't be offended if someone said 'the ginger girl' or 'the Scottish one' when they described me.

@WeatherwaxOn

She has said nothing racist nor wrong. Previously the team was comprised of all white people. 3 new people have joined who are black. Those are facts.

So? It doesn't matter if it's a fact. If my dc had a black teacher, I wouldn't say to them "make sure you hand your homework in to your black teacher'. I mean it's factual but we all know it would be socially unacceptable to say it.

She was just stating a fact. Not racist. Unless there was something in her tone suggesting that she thought it was a bad thing that the team now has some black players. But you'd likely have mentioned that, so it's more likely that it was a neutral observation, or even that she's pleased about it. I don't see DP's issue with that.

I'm autistic too, though, and I think it's absurd when people to go to great lengths not to mention someone's race, even when doing so would quickly identify the person in question. It's not bad to be black! (Or white, or any other ethnicity.) Avoiding any mention of it makes it seem as if you think it's a negative characteristic.

The man in our nearest sweet shop is Indian. When I take my dc I say to them, "hand you sweets to the man". I don't say "hand your sweets to the Indian man". The latter is factual but I wouldn't say it. Your dds intent wasn't racist but she should also know that it is generally unacceptable to mention race in the way she did. She wasn't mentioning it for any relevant reason.

@GreenWhiteViolet No there was nothing in her tone to suggest it was a negative thing. Just a neutral observation that the team was all previously white girls and the 3 new girls who have joined are all black. Earlier this evening she said one of the new girls was a really good player. No mention of her skin tone then because the observation was now about how that girl played. If that makes sense!

@KylieKoKo

Racism is something black people experience rather than something white people necessarily consciously do. It's actually quite annoying for black people that their race is a feature to notice and white people are seen as the default human beings. I'm not saying that your daughter was malicious but that doesn't mean that her comments are not racist on some level.

When I go to another country where the majority of people are black, the fact that I'm white is noteworthy. It certainly was when I was in Hong Kong and in KL.

If your skin colour isn't the one of the majority, people will notice. It's an observation, nothing else

It’s ‘othering’ though, isn’t it? It’s reducing people to a single, irrelevant, characteristic.

If we’re just stating facts, would it have been okay to say that three overweight girls joined & they’d never had overweight girls in the team before?

Or how about saying three lesbians joined & they’d never had lesbians
before?

OP, would it be okay for people to refer to your daughter has the autistic girl even though her having autism was not relevant to the situation?

@salllysue

'He stomped off to the shops'

I'd have told him to stomp off home!!

@AwaAnBileYerHeid

"As an adult she needs to absolutely understand that she cannot refer to a colleague as "the black girl", and would actually be at risk of disciplinary action."

Why though? I remember working in a summer job years ago. There were about 30 of us, all from the UK, one girl who was black - let's call her Janine - and another who was of Indian origin - let's call her Jane. It was only about the 2nd or 3rd day and and someone mentioned Janine. Jane asked who Janine was (as we didn't all know who was who yet) and I sat in bemusement as they all tried to describe Janine. You know, tall girl, slim, pretty, the one from Birmingham. Nope, Jane couldn't place her. I had to go and talk to the supervisor about something at this point. Later on that afternoon, Jane asked me who Janine was. I was like you know, the black girl. Jane immediately knew who she was but also looked visibly..I don't know, upset...shocked..? She said "why didn't they just say that?". I think she was probably a little hurt and felt awkward that everyone felt they couldn't point out someone's race to her. Now obviously the reason that they didn't say it was because they felt awkward. But honestly, what a bloody palaver, it was actually embarrassing to watch.

Why can't we just say the black girl? I wouldn't be offended if someone said 'the ginger girl' or 'the Scottish one' when they described me.

it’s probably loaded because in a historical context racial descriptions were used in a derogatory way. Of course not the racial descriptions of white people (with the exception of being ginger).

Again - would you find it acceptable to be described as ‘fat’, ‘wheelchair bound’ or ‘cross eyed’?

They are all statements of fact but it’s socially not acceptable to describe someone as such. I personally don’t care but I can see why it’s not appropriate in a social context

It's definitely not racist and she did nothing wrong but... she may get into trouble with someone by pointing out something like their race when it's irrelevant to the situation. There's a lot more emphasis nowadays on being sensitive to situations, even if, as you say, she makes the same observations on e.g. tall people. Take it as a learning curve for her to not define people by their skin colour, even if she doesn't say it remotely nastily.

@DiscoLightsOnAFridayNight

It’s ‘othering’ though, isn’t it? It’s reducing people to a single, irrelevant, characteristic.

If we’re just stating facts, would it have been okay to say that three overweight girls joined & they’d never had overweight girls in the team before?

Or how about saying three lesbians joined & they’d never had lesbians
before?

OP, would it be okay for people to refer to your daughter has the autistic girl even though her having autism was not relevant to the situation?

Exactly this.

@AlmostSummer21 you’re referring to two of the countries I grew up in. I can confirm that racial prejudice is very much ingrained in society and on a scale that people in Western countries wouldn’t even believe exists.

However it’s sometimesbthé opposite. If you’re white you’re treated like a god and given lots of privilege (while the behind their backs locals call white people ‘gwailoh’, Cantonese for ‘white ghost’ and laugh about how some of them can’t handle spice). Black people are treated like rubbish with parents telling their children to
‘behave and eat your veggies, or the black man will come and get you’.

Maybe you were an expat and safe from all of these things but the majority of the world is racist. That’s a fact. It’s the ‘default’.

My children (8 and 11) will describe someone as black or muslim. This is totally ok.
I have black family members and muslim friends. Neither would be offended.
The DP is the problem, not your daughter. Maybe he has lived a very sheltered life.

My children (8 and 11) will describe someone as black or muslim. This is totally ok.

Making assumptions about a person's religion just by looking at them is far from ok.

@DiscoLightsOnAFridayNight

It’s ‘othering’ though, isn’t it? It’s reducing people to a single, irrelevant, characteristic.

If we’re just stating facts, would it have been okay to say that three overweight girls joined & they’d never had overweight girls in the team before?

Or how about saying three lesbians joined & they’d never had lesbians
before?

OP, would it be okay for people to refer to your daughter has the autistic girl even though her having autism was not relevant to the situation?

Very well put!

@TractorAndHeadphones well no, of course I wouldn't find it acceptable to be described as fat or cross eyed, as those are insults. It's completely different. What a strange analogy.

One side of my family is of a different race (not that you could really tell by looking at me, it seemed to completely skip me for some reason and the Scottish side genes took full dominance) but I actually find it quite shocking that you are comparing rude insults to be equal to skin colour other than white. Hopefully you were just reaching as far as possible to make some sort of point as opposed to actually holding that view.

@TractorAndHeadphones and I actually spent 6 months in a wheelchair following an accident a few years back now. I wouldn't care how anyone described me, but if someone was trying to ascertain who I was and another person said 'y'know, the girl in the wheelchair', then so what? It would be my most defining at a glance characteristic to someone who didn't know me so what's the issue there? They don't know anything else about me to describe me. Maybe 'the girl with the ginger hair'? Or would you find that insulting?

[quote AwaAnBileYerHeid]@TractorAndHeadphones well no, of course I wouldn't find it acceptable to be described as fat or cross eyed, as those are insults. It's completely different. What a strange analogy.

One side of my family is of a different race (not that you could really tell by looking at me, it seemed to completely skip me for some reason and the Scottish side genes took full dominance) but I actually find it quite shocking that you are comparing rude insults to be equal to skin colour other than white. Hopefully you were just reaching as far as possible to make some sort of point as opposed to actually holding that view.[/quote]
You’ve gone full steam ahead in proving my point for me.
Why are these insults? They are also like skin colour a statement of fact.
You could perhaps use the politically correct term ‘overweight’ but having excess weight is a visible physical characteristic.
So is being cross eyed. Or being in a wheelchair. Or any number of things.
OR having a certain skin colour.

Because the people with these characteristics are of a historically belittled group to describe them solely with said characteristics isn’t socially acceptable.

@AwaAnBileYerHeid i think you’ve quite contradicted yourself there with your initial angry reaction…

My children (8 and 11) will describe someone as black or muslim.

Will they also describe other people as being white or christian? That’s where the distinction lies.

He shouldn’t be angry, that doesn’t help. But it would be very very odd if, say, in the workplace someone turned to me and said ‘that other team has three black people’. It may be true but it would be very strange behaviour. So you, and she, are going to have to work out how to navigate this literalism.

My goodness the poster who ‘smiles’ when people mention oppression…..once again further evidence that the only people who use the phrase woke are arseholes. Usually racist ones.

@MissTrip82 I agree. It is like she has no filter and as my brain doesn't work the same way hers does, I'm at a loss with how to try and help her recognise that what she says could be taken the wrong way, even if it is a neutral observation. She massively struggles with the social side of things and that includes understanding why a 'fact' may not be the right thing to say in some situations.

There were about 30 of us, all from the UK, one girl who was black - let's call her Janine - and another who was of Indian origin - let's call her Jane

What would you have done if those women had been white? How would you have distinguished them then?

She could just as easily have commented that they were all wearing green football boots. Or that they all wore glasses. She was simply imparting her observation in a literal way. However, she needs to learn the rule that commenting on someone's physical appearance is not always a good idea because some people don't like it.

I'm more concerned about your DP's general unpleasantness and complete lack of empathy and understanding.

My children (8 and 11) will describe someone as black or muslim. This is totally ok.

Muslim isn't a race.

I get asked if I am Muslim alot, or people just assume. I am not. But I am brown skinned. Its actually really annoying how many people think brown skin = Muslim.