DP said my DD was racist

[salllysue]

Firstly, I just want to say that I apologise in advance if I use the wrong terminology in this post. I really don't want to upset anyone.

A bit of background -

DD is 14 and autistic. She's high functioning but has sensory and some social issues, and is extremely literal.

DP - I've been with him 4 years. We don't live together. He is quite opinionated and struggles if someone has a different opinion to him. I wouldn't say argumentative as such, but it can get a bit touchy. He gets on well with my DD.

My DD plays for a football team. Recently they have had 3 new girls join. We picked her up from training tonight and on the way back DP asked her how it was. She said it was ok and then said that all the new players are black and that they didn't have any beforehand. She didn't say anything further.

Now I know my DD, she wasn't being racist in the slightest (not all of her friends are white), she was just being her literal self and stating what she saw. DP was quiet on the way home.

We got back, DD went for a shower and DP turned round to me and said that it's awful that she could say something racist like that.

Long story short, he got extremely angry with me and said that I can't let her autism be an excuse for her to be racist. He would simply not listen to me saying that she wasn't, she was just saying her thoughts out loud.

After a few more words from DP about how she has been racist and I need to speak to her etc, he stomped off to the shop and has been off with me since being back.

I feel so upset that he has accused DD of this. I'd like to know other peoples take on it.

I too think she was just stating a literal fact also.
But....would she have mentioned it at all if the 3 new players were white?

@Sunny4876 If the rest of the team were black then yes she would mention if the 3 new girls were all white. She would also say if all the new girls were really tall, or all had dark black hair... She literally just states what she sees!

While your daughter's clearly not racist, I think this is a good opportunity to talk to her about thinking before she speaks. Calling out race so matter-of-factly and saying "there weren't any before", if she says stuff like that as she gets older, she could alienate people.

I appreciate that with autism comes difficulties with social interactions, but maybe she can learn some better ways of moderating her communication style when talking about marginalised people.

@salllysue then I believe what your Dd said is absolutely fine and your Dp is a dick.

How is it racist to say that the new players are black?

Yeah you could have the conversation with her but be prepared for it to not completely sink in. She stated a fact this is all, it can be very hard for people with ASD to remember all the many social rules that we are constantly being told and particularly when it’s one of those days where it’s all got too much we will forget. It’s nothing malicious but keeping up the mask can be difficult.

@KylieKoKo

Racism is something black people experience rather than something white people necessarily consciously do. It's actually quite annoying for black people that their race is a feature to notice and white people are seen as the default human beings. I'm not saying that your daughter was malicious but that doesn't mean that her comments are not racist on some level.

But being white is the “default” in the UK. We can’t continue to walk on egg shells around physical traits, it’s divisive and I think we’re making much more of an issue out of this than it has to be. Describing someone as black is no more racist than describing someone as ginger, tall, etc.

I don't think it was a racist comment, but I do think you should explain to her that race is a sensitive subject and she should be careful not to give the impression she might be being racist.

@Babyiskickingmyribs

So this is an issue with deciding what information to present when answering questions. So when your dp asks what her coach is ´like’ and she’s answered that he’s ´tall’ - it’s the wrong answer because he doesn’t want to know what the coach looks like, he wants to know about his coaching. So you could teach your dd that describing someone by their skin colour is the wrong answer is most situations - usually it’s not relevant. In fact most comments about what someone looks like fall into this category. Skin colour and ethnic background IS relevant information in a conversation about diversity or race relations, but could be misinterpreted outside of those topics. This shouldn’t be a conversation about how what she said is (or could be seen as) racist. She won’t be receptive to that because there was no racist intent. It should be a conversation about learning to ´read between the lines’ when people ask ambiguous or unclear questions. Why are they asking that question? What do they probably want to know?

This seems a very sensible response.

I agree that what she said was not objectively racist, but I can see how it would be an unsettling observation. (The NT brain does a bit of a "yes, and..?" response at the end of those observations, right? So the social norm would be to add on something to dispel any inkling that the new diversity of the team was a negative!)

OP, you don't say whether your partner is black, and for me this affects whether I think he's being unreasonable.

On a completely different issue OP, how does he usually react when you disagree?
Is he black? If so he may well have more insight than you and your daughter, and his opinion should be seen to be considered. If not, then I'd ask him why his opinion is more important than yours or hers.

Your DP overreacted - but your daughter’s comment (although not intended that way) was racist.
You know it was just a statement of fact and she didn’t mean to be racist. But that’s what it will sound like to other people.

Also for the record - I’m Asian with an autistic DP 😂.

Race and diversity is such a sensitive topic these days - it’s gone overboard. For an autistic person it’s a nightmare. I don’t know what the solution is - maybe teach them to avoid personal description of any sort and focus on other characteristics. But even for non-autistic people it’s a minefield!

@picklemewalnuts @NellWilsonsWhiteHair My DP is white.

My son tacks on information like this if he thinks its useful he has a friend whose dad wears a turban literally the only one in the school who does my son will invariably point out thats x dad he is the one wearing a turban even if he is the only man there he will still use it to distinguish him from everyone else we worked on this and he has stopped but it took a lot of long conversations (yes he is autistic)

I am white so May have this completely wrong and I will listen if so BUT that is not racist in any way shape or form. I can’t even see how it could be unless some gesture or tone was involved. It actually seems pretty observant and thoughtful. Your dp seems frightened of describing someone as ‘black’ - was he an adult in the 1960s ??

I fail to see how that's racist

@MellowBird85 For me using race as an identifier is racist when it’s clearly ‘othering’ or used as shorthand for character.
Someone looking for me at a bar asks for a ‘brown’ girl - well fine that’s a description.
Someone saying ‘a black woman just joined our team’ - without context is racist because you wouldn’t randomly say that a fat, tall or [insert physical characteristic] joined the team would you?
In the OP’s case case the girl is literal and says the first thing she sees but for other people it’s a racist comment because of the above.

As I understood it she was pointing out that these were the first black members - it isn't even as if she just mentioned their colour randomly.

Not necessarily the 60s when I grew up the word black was removed from schools; blackboard became chalkboard etc in case it was offensive to black students. There werent any black students in my very ordinary state school. Took to my late 20s to figure out that black wasn't offensive.

@wewereliars

Calling a black person black is not racist. It's a statement of fact.

It depends on if it's relevant. It's not always acceptable to state facts in social situations. For example, let's say my dc dropped a toy and a passing woman picks it up and hands it to them...I would say to my dc "say thank you to the lady". I wouldn't say "say thank you to the black/white lady".

I don’t think your dd was racist but maybe a conversation should be had about when it is appropriate/Inappropriate to mention race.

Also to add - mentioning people by their race sort of highlights that they’re different and puts them into some sort of box. Like the first thing you notice is that they’re a different colour. While that’s true other obvious things you notice about people aren’t always what you’d happily use as descriptors. Like their weight.

Again it’s very nuanced. I dont agree with a lot of the modern push for diversity. Which include a blanket ban on things like asking ‘where are you from’ (wtf is wrong with that if I’ve got a foreign accent it’s obvious, if I’ve got a British accent and you ask that it’s taking the piss) , or minority quotas etc. But some things can be quite obviously loaded…

As I understood it she was pointing out that these were the first black members - it isn't even as if she just mentioned their colour randomly.

Yes but you wouldn't walk into work and announce "A black women has just got a job in the finance department, it's always been white people before!"

Would you? If not, why not??

Posters are just saying that OP might want to point out to her DD that what she said could be inappropriate in some contexts.

She has said nothing racist nor wrong. Previously the team was comprised of all white people. 3 new people have joined who are black. Those are facts.

@WeatherwaxOn

She has said nothing racist nor wrong. Previously the team was comprised of all white people. 3 new people have joined who are black. Those are facts.

agreed..

I hope your Daughter is okay .. having to live with a knob who calls her out incorrectly 🌸

@HelpingJane

As I understood it she was pointing out that these were the first black members - it isn't even as if she just mentioned their colour randomly.

Yes but you wouldn't walk into work and announce "A black women has just got a job in the finance department, it's always been white people before!"

Would you? If not, why not??

Posters are just saying that OP might want to point out to her DD that what she said could be inappropriate in some contexts.

I would also encourage posters who don’t get it to replace the word ‘black’ with the word ‘fat’, ‘short’ or anything else and go an actually say it to their friends/colleagues 😂

All of these are statements of facts too