mum is dying, not sure what I should do

[beastlyslumber]

I've been LC with my mum for more than a decade. We never had a good relationship, but I haven't cut her out completely because I do get on okay with the rest of the family and they get on okay with her. She has been very ill for a while with cancer that's no longer treatable, and she's now expected to live only a couple more months.

I don't know whether I should go and see her before she dies. To be clear, she hasn't said she wants me to visit. She has apparently been talking a lot about how important it is to her to know she's been a good mother, and I doubt if she'd want to take the risk of seeing me in case I don't go along with this. She wasn't a good mother to me. She was cold and unloving, a liar, manipulative, and I would go so far as to say, abusive. She did, however, have some good points, and there were times she helped me out as an adult (because my life was a mess, go figure). I don't think she's a bad person as such, but she was a bad mother, and she caused me a huge amount of trauma, pain and unhappiness in childhood and throughout my life. It wasn't until I went very LC with her that I started to gain some confidence and achieve some things in life.

I don't have any ill will towards her, but I don't know if it's right to visit her. A part of me still hopes deep down that she would want to see me and say sorry and tell me she loves me. But this is not what's going to happen. If I see her, it would have to be on her terms, which means going along with the story about her being such a wonderful mum. Maybe that's something I should do, out of compassion? There are things I would like to tell her, but the truth is that she wouldn't be able to 'hear' them anyway. I'm scared that I'll regret not saying goodbye in person. But on the other hand, I'm scared that it will make everything worse. Is it better to just stay away?

I thought it was nothing like beautiful either. I know I can't fully understand @beastlyslumber but I try but using my mother in this scenario and mine had learnt nothing in the decades since she abandoned me. Yet somehow, I am supposed to have forgiven her as so many years have gone by. I have thought about her childhood to maybe excuse, explain, understand why she was so crap for me and her childhood was better by the fact she had parents, her dad wasn't always nice to her but she had her mum.

I have just reread your post @beastlyslumber and my social work said, of the foster parent who abused me, that it would have been much worse if he'd done it to his own children. Is that my balance to?

I really feel you are so strong. You are making your own decisions and aren't being swayed by others while still taking some positives from the posts that you disagree with. You'll be fine.

Wow @SunshineCake what an awful thing that social worker said to you. The sad truth is that too often people focus way more on the abuser's feelings than the victim's feelings, and it can really add to the trauma.

And thank you for your encouragement. It's complicated and sad, but I try to be honest with myself and not expect myself to be perfect. I think I have experienced every emotion there is in the last few weeks! It's all just a process.

I'm not sure that was even the worst thing she said to me about it. Actually it wasn't and it really affected my time with my children as babies. I'll never get to experience things every other parent did so no, I won't be giving a dying parent or SW peace on their death beds.

I'm not sure I've given any encouragement but it is lovely of you to say. I'm just trying to say you don't have to be alone. I'll always listen.

@SunshineCake Thank you. That is so incredibly kind of you.

I'm so sorry for what you went through and the effect it's had on your life. Don't let anyone tell you that you have to forgive and forget. You know the truth and others who have had these kinds of experiences will understand

It's awful feeling like we are the bad guys because we won't, can't, just say it is okay. Doesn't matter. Etc. It isn't okay. It never will be. It does matter.

Then we get told we are only hurting ourselves by holding a grudge .

I think part of it is the whole "honour thy father and mother" thing. I suppose there is a kind of 'natural order' in which the parent/child relationship is sacred. But we are not the ones who broke that sacred bond! Yet we are the ones who often get blamed for it, and get told to take responsibility for it, and are assumed to be immoral or bad in some way for not just accepting the abuse and saying it's okay.

I'm an adult and I take responsibility for my choices, but I also know that there is a whole lot of pain and sadness and damage caused by my mum that has profoundly affected my whole life. Only when I stopped contact with her did I start to be able to put my life together in a better way. And the truth is I didn't get there until I was 40, and I missed out on so much as a result. I sometimes feel like I am still having to grow up and raise myself. The effect of my mum's parenting on me has been destructive of almost everything in my life. I've had very little of the life I wanted and needed.

While I can have compassion for her in her dying days, and I can also understand that she suffered abuse in her own childhood, she also had a much, much better life than I've had in many ways! She has had everything she wanted, as far as I can tell. So when people expect me to sacrifice my feelings to hers, it does upset me. When is it okay for me to take care of ME?

Now. It is okay now and as far back as you did to take care of yourself.

I definitely raised myself.

Your post has made me realise I am in denial with a lot of things. I am stuck in a head space. I keep wanting for my life to start. I know I'll never be properly happy. I'm just going through the motions while I bring up my children.

It's so hard to get out of that headspace. It feels like your life is determined by the things that happened to you, and there's no escape. Maybe that is true to an extent. It sounds terrible, but my mum dying feels to me like something that needs to happen to help me move on. I'm not suggesting you need anyone to die to feel that way! But maybe some kind of symbolic cutting of ties could help?

I think you can be properly happy one day. But there is a lot to go through first.

@beastlyslumber

Thank you, sandgrown I'd be fooling myself if I thought she'd answer any questions. I'm sorry you have regrets x

Her dying may have made her visit what she's done in her life. I personally would go and highlight the good things but also highlight the bad things. She may well want to apologise and make peace before she passes

There are definitely people who need to die for me to feel free, safer and also able to live the life I'd like. Ironically it is only one person I have ties with who if I cut them life would be easier but I can't yet.

I hope you'll be able to soon. Maybe you'll find a way sooner than you think.

[quote beastlyslumber]**@MakemeaCake* I mean this kindly, but you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Please stop trying to suggest that my mum loved me really, deep down, despite all the abuse. She might have done, who knows, but does it matter? (Rhetorical question.) Yes, my mum is a very damaged person. And I am a very damaged person because of her. I haven't abused any children, though. (And yes, I have had lots of therapy, and none of my therapists ever suggested that it would be beneficial to try to see things more from my mum's point of view. In fact, they had to work with me very intensely to get me to actually try to see things from my own* point of view.)

I'm happy for you that you have no real insight or comprehension of these issues, because it means they haven't affected your life. But please accept that this also means you don't know better than me what my mum is like or how my childhood was. Thanks.[/quote]
Tbf I think makemeacake has a point.

You yourself said your mother was abused as a child. This will have affected her (just as it affected you), and maybe you were the source to take it out on (therapy wasnt really a thing years ago like it is today)
I also do think she loved you, why would someone that hates or despises someone help them out when it was needed.

Some that were abused go on to abuse, others go on the be completely the opposite. It's always been widely reported that those that were abused go on to become abusers (I'm guessing because they weren't brought up to know any better)

Yeah, apparently she is writing her will at the moment. I expect everything will go to the favoured children. She's not wealthy (as far as I know! She's always been weirdly secretive about money) and may even leave us with debts to sort out

Unless she names you as the executor then you won't have to sort a thing when she's gone.

Glad you got a response, though it wasn't an acknowledgement of the way she treated you, nor the apology that you deserve. She never tried to fix things, hence the reason she hadn't been able to fix it. Your response was to the point and is all that is needed. I hope you find peace now

You yourself said your mother was abused as a child. This will have affected her (just as it affected you), and maybe you were the source to take it out on (therapy wasnt really a thing years ago like it is today)
I also do think she loved you, why would someone that hates or despises someone help them out when it was needed.

No, she didn't love me. And the idea that you, a complete stranger to both of us, and evidently a complete stranger to the dynamics of abusive families, think you know better about this than I do just... blows my mind.

Maybe I was the source for her to take her feelings out on in the absence of therapy??? Are you serious? Oh that's okay then. I was just the infant therapist, so glad to be of service to my poor mother, who needed to abuse an innocent child because there was no one to talk to. Thank god she produced a whole other life to ruin (mine) so she didn't have to face up to her own issues.

Seriously, I do try to be patient because I know that people just don't understand these kinds of family dynamics, but please give me a break now. You don't know what you're talking about and it's honestly offensive to assume you know more than I do about my own life.

@Notaroadrunner

Yeah, apparently she is writing her will at the moment. I expect everything will go to the favoured children. She's not wealthy (as far as I know! She's always been weirdly secretive about money) and may even leave us with debts to sort out

Unless she names you as the executor then you won't have to sort a thing when she's gone.

Glad you got a response, though it wasn't an acknowledgement of the way she treated you, nor the apology that you deserve. She never tried to fix things, hence the reason she hadn't been able to fix it. Your response was to the point and is all that is needed. I hope you find peace now

Thank you. I think I'm at peace with the way we've left things now. I expect it will be difficult when she actually dies, but I feel at least I've done everything I can to let her go with compassion and accept it.

Good to know I won't have to be paying her bills, as well! Hopefully there won't be debts. If there's any money, I expect she'll leave my share to my sister!!

I have been where you are once already, and I am soon to go through it again. You owe yourself only. You are the person you need to nurture, care for, and protect. You do not owe your mother anything. Compassion, empathy, respect, obligation, duty: these do not apply when someone has treated you so badly, abused and/or neglected you, deprived you of love and care.
Yes many who are abused go on to abuse... but have you? I have not. I understood that what my childhood taught me about relationships, control, power was wrong and far from how we should treat others, and re-educated myself, and my children have had a normal family life- they are nurtured, cared for, loved and cherished, and they know it.
You don't need to contact her again unless you want to.
I send you strength and love and understanding

And cake 🍰 of course

@nyoman

I have been where you are once already, and I am soon to go through it again. You owe yourself only. You are the person you need to nurture, care for, and protect. You do not owe your mother anything. Compassion, empathy, respect, obligation, duty: these do not apply when someone has treated you so badly, abused and/or neglected you, deprived you of love and care. Yes many who are abused go on to abuse... but have you? I have not. I understood that what my childhood taught me about relationships, control, power was wrong and far from how we should treat others, and re-educated myself, and my children have had a normal family life- they are nurtured, cared for, loved and cherished, and they know it. You don't need to contact her again unless you want to. I send you strength and love and understanding

And cake 🍰 of course

Yes, yes and yes 100%. I chose to use the way my mother was a parent as a guide to doing the complete opposite with my own children and know whilst I certainly haven't been perfect, they know they are loved unconditionally and can always count on me.

Some people have no clue @beastlyslumber.

In a nutshell. My mother apparently had a father who was a bit rough with her and a mother who was rumoured to be free with her favours for cash. She had five younger siblings. The father of her child left her. For the minuscule amount of time she had the baby -me- she was a terrible mother after the first few months. Baby then spent all her childhood in and out of various places with lots of pain.

Baby grows up. Marries. Has children. Is an awesome mum. Her upbringing obviously informs on how she parents but we'll never know as baby can't relive her life nicely. Babies children turn out to be very well looked after, loved, cared for, supported, all without baby having that for themselves. Baby chose to be a good mum.

It might be understood that a person with a shit upbringing might repeat that with their children but there is always a choice.

Baby's mum chose to put herself, her boyfriend, money before her baby.
Baby has chosen to put her children before anyone or anything.

Stop with the offensive and tone deaf bull shit that @beastlyslumber mum couldn't help herself, had a shit life too so... etc etc. @beastlyslumber has said several times what her life was like, how she feels and you and I have to accept it. Why would she lie? No one would make this shit up.

Some that were abused go on to abuse, others go on the be completely the opposite. It's always been widely reported that those that were abused go on to become abusers (I'm guessing because they weren't brought up to know any better).

Stop with this offensive and dangerous nonsense. It helps no one.

@MrsPsmalls

Did she do the best she could with the hand that was dealt to her? Lots of rubbish mums really are doing the best they can. Could you thank her for that at least? We haven't walked in our mums shoes and we don't really know what they are dealing with.it might not have been good but it might have been all that was possible.

This. None of us really knows what sort of trauma our own mothers may have been dealt with as children, and which has led to their own inability to be good mothers . They just didn't know how. Maybe your own mother did the best she could .

And again. Really. These comments are so far off the reality scale I wonder .

@nyoman

I have been where you are once already, and I am soon to go through it again. You owe yourself only. You are the person you need to nurture, care for, and protect. You do not owe your mother anything. Compassion, empathy, respect, obligation, duty: these do not apply when someone has treated you so badly, abused and/or neglected you, deprived you of love and care. Yes many who are abused go on to abuse... but have you? I have not. I understood that what my childhood taught me about relationships, control, power was wrong and far from how we should treat others, and re-educated myself, and my children have had a normal family life- they are nurtured, cared for, loved and cherished, and they know it. You don't need to contact her again unless you want to. I send you strength and love and understanding

And cake 🍰 of course

Thank you @nyoman I'm sorry you're going through this. I have not gone on to abuse either. Like you, my childhood taught me to have a lifelong horror of control and power used against vulnerable people. Most victims of abuse do NOT go on to abuse others.

Many thanks for your kind words

This. None of us really knows what sort of trauma our own mothers may have been dealt with as children, and which has led to their own inability to be good mothers . They just didn't know how. Maybe your own mother did the best she could

I have answered this point earlier in the thread. I cannot understand the mentality of people like you who just want to stick the boot in. Why do you care more about the abuser's feelings than the victim's @ShippingNews? Do you really think you should excuse people who abuse their children on any basis at all? I don't. It ruins lives. I cannot believe the lack of compassion. I know you don't understand, but I'm amazed that you have no empathy either.

@SunshineCake

And again. Really. These comments are so far off the reality scale I wonder .

I wonder, too. What the hell do these people want from me? Why come on a thread like this to victim blame and make excuses for a parents' cruelty?

The lack of compassion and empathy is shocking. Fair enough to not be able to understand, but why comment just to upset someone?

Because they are sick, stupid, cruel and deluded. My best guesses.