mum is dying, not sure what I should do

[beastlyslumber]

I've been LC with my mum for more than a decade. We never had a good relationship, but I haven't cut her out completely because I do get on okay with the rest of the family and they get on okay with her. She has been very ill for a while with cancer that's no longer treatable, and she's now expected to live only a couple more months.

I don't know whether I should go and see her before she dies. To be clear, she hasn't said she wants me to visit. She has apparently been talking a lot about how important it is to her to know she's been a good mother, and I doubt if she'd want to take the risk of seeing me in case I don't go along with this. She wasn't a good mother to me. She was cold and unloving, a liar, manipulative, and I would go so far as to say, abusive. She did, however, have some good points, and there were times she helped me out as an adult (because my life was a mess, go figure). I don't think she's a bad person as such, but she was a bad mother, and she caused me a huge amount of trauma, pain and unhappiness in childhood and throughout my life. It wasn't until I went very LC with her that I started to gain some confidence and achieve some things in life.

I don't have any ill will towards her, but I don't know if it's right to visit her. A part of me still hopes deep down that she would want to see me and say sorry and tell me she loves me. But this is not what's going to happen. If I see her, it would have to be on her terms, which means going along with the story about her being such a wonderful mum. Maybe that's something I should do, out of compassion? There are things I would like to tell her, but the truth is that she wouldn't be able to 'hear' them anyway. I'm scared that I'll regret not saying goodbye in person. But on the other hand, I'm scared that it will make everything worse. Is it better to just stay away?

Re your comment in quote marks that I have separated out:-

"I don't believe my mum is entirely bad and as I said, she did help me out more than once as an adult, which I am grateful for. I think 'narcissistic tendencies' probably sums it up".

Narcissists like to come in and swoop down and rescue the scapegoat as it gives them a feeling of superiority as well as power and control. They often use money to control their target. It also enforces in their heads just how "useless" their chosen scapegoat is. Make no mistake, such "help" was never given to you without price or a price to be paid.

"I actually think it's possible that something about me triggers her into certain behaviours, because I perceive that she is not as bad with my siblings, though she still has her moments. I think something emotionally vital to her depends on me being put on the outside of the family".

The permanent scapegoat permits the narcissistic mother to make sense of family dynamics and the things that displease her without ever blemishing her own role as a “perfect” mother, or feeling the need for any introspection or action. Where was your dad in your childhood, women like your mother always need a willing enabler to help them.

"She sees me as competition and it feels like life and death to her to win".

Competition for what, affection from your dad/her husband?. It probably has something to do with her man and he is someone she also hated. You perhaps remind her of him in some ways. Her jealousy is partially related to the fact that her daughter is growing into a woman and this reminds the narcissistic mum that she’s getting older and that her daughter will soon be the one people are staring at – if she’s not already.

People like your mother do not have any empathy for others, I cannot emphasise that point enough.

@beastlyslumber 💐

OP it took me having my own DD to be able to rationalise and cope with (sactamonious) people like Makemeacake. I look at my DD and cannot fathom how my mother could possible have said and done the things she has to me, to behave this way toward my wonderful DD would be absurd. I think people who have had normal, loving and respectful upbringings (including the standard ups and downs that come with different phases of life... teenagers!!) can not even begin to imagine the way your mother and my mother behaved, it is so far outside of the realms of their own experiences of how their parents treated them and how they feel and behave towards their own children. They can only see the mother-child relationship from their own experience and this leaves them lacking empathy and in some case outright cruel to people who have not been fortunate enough to experience motherly love.

In all honesty I think the thing that will hit me the hardest and that I will grieve for the most when my mother dies, is the finality that I will never know motherly love. At least I have my own DC now, so I can get some sense of it from that.

@AttilaTheMeerkat thank you - this is all completely spot on, especially the bit about the "permanent scapegoat".

I would comment more but I am struggling with all the 'she loved you really' comments, which I know are well-intentioned but they are very hard to hear, and frustrating because I feel the need to 'prove' the abuse and its impact on me, which is obviously exactly the situation I've always been in with my mum.

I don't think she will give you what you need, in fact I know she won't. You could go in case you regret it in the future. You could send flowers as a PP said. You could pop in for 10 minutes and say little. Maybe go when someone else is there so she won't be cruel to you.

I would comment more but I am struggling with all the 'she loved you really' comments, which I know are well-intentioned but they are very hard to hear, and frustrating because I feel the need to 'prove' the abuse and its impact on me, which is obviously exactly the situation I've always been in with my mum.

People won't get it unless they have been there. They are wrong.

If you don't go to see her, you might regret it later. Don't spend the rest of your life thinking "If only I'd gone when I had chance".

What's the worst that could happen if you see her?

A ) You bawl your eyes out and tell her some home truths.

B) You have a cup of tea and make small talk about the weather.

You explain the issue really well, OP. Hope you eventually get some kind of peace.

What's the worst that could happen if you see her?
C) She says more horribly hurtful things, or OP feels she's been manipulated, and the last memory OP has of her mum is painful and raw.

@2bazookas

If you don't go to see her, you might regret it later. Don't spend the rest of your life thinking "If only I'd gone when I had chance".

What's the worst that could happen if you see her?

A ) You bawl your eyes out and tell her some home truths.

B) You have a cup of tea and make small talk about the weather.

C) she talks constantly about your SIL putting her up on a pedestal like some sort of precious princess, confirming on her death bed what you have known but tried not to believe, that she loves someone elses DD more than she has ever been able to love you, her own DD.

Yes I am projecting, but your comment is exactly the reason OP has left the thread. You really have no idea of how someone who is supposed to love you unconditionally can crush you in an instant.

The two considerations about staying away that seem important to me are

A) when she is dead, how will you feel about having not seen her? Guilt? Regret? Relief?

B) what impact will not seeing her have on your relationship with the rest of your family?

She’s already poisoned parts of your childhood. I wouldn’t want her to be the cause of further pain for you.

O.P. If you are still reading then don't visit her. Send flowers and a note if you wish but don't give her the chance to be cruel at the end when you will feel you can't speak up because she is dying. You sound a lovely person despite her sustained horrible treatment of you and that's a credit to you. You have nothing to prove as you know the truth, and so does she.

OP I was in a very similar position when my mother died in 2014.
If she had asked to see me, I would have gone.
But she didn't.
I felt OK about that because I had actually grieved for the relationship already.

Put yourself first. Don’t go. The thought of telling an 8 year old they weren’t loved or favouring one child over another is unimaginable to me. By the sounds of things, staying away sends the message that needs to be sent.
You communicate your thoughts and write beautifully by the way.

I think if you listen to your heart you'll know what to do.

For years I worried I would have regrets if my mother died without me seeing her. Then she did something and I knew I would have no regrets. Then I worried again. Now I'm finally in the place where I long to hear she has died and I will not be unhappy at all. I'll rationalise it, allow a moment of sadness for the child who she let down hugely then will get on with my life and breathe again.

Slightly different to you as I didn't live with her again once I was about 15 months and I haven't seen her for 30 years. She has made contact a handful of times. Not expected or wanted.

Seems like your other sister and brother are saying your mum was wonderful as they want to believe it, they wish she was and they know they can't change anything now she's dying.

It is a very personal decision.
I was NC with my father. On his deathbed he decided he wanted to reconcile with all his kids (ie me and my siblings).
I could not see the point- a quick 5 mins was not going to make up for years and years. My sister told me I would regret not going.

He was a stranger and really meant so very little to me. I regret what life should have been like but no regrets about not seeing him.

Over 20 years now and still waiting for the regrets to kick in.

Good luck with your decision. It will be the right one for you.

People often say that they think you will regret it if you don't go. I expect those people did not have emotionally abusive childhoods.

If you decide that not visiting is the right choice for you I don't think you will regret that decision. You may well regret going and telling her she was a great mum because that's not authentic.

It's such a difficult time and situation OP. Please do what is right for you and be kind to yourself. You are doing the right thing in giving careful consideration before making a decision and I am sure the decision you make will be the right one for you. I hope you have some good support in RL. There is a great sadness in missing out on having the mother relationship that we needed in life.

@beastlyslumber

I could tolerate giving her what she needs for a short and finite period. After all it’s always been all about her, so doesn’t really matter whether it’s genuine or not.

Yeah. But then I wonder what this would cost me. It's a difficult thing to process. I was always very clear that I wouldn't be making any deathbed visits, but now it's happened I'm finding it all quite confusing.

I know. Maybe I’m so trained to put her feelings above mine that I’m dressing this up as being something I would be in control of. Perhaps I can already hear her with the “ how could you have not visited?” from the grave and naively think that visiting would mitigate that.

I think flowers is a safe way to protect yourself from the unpredictability that could come from those with narc tendencies. And protecting yourself is important.

Best wishes op. You really have my sympathies.

If you're still reading... I feel for you op. And I don't know what it's like. I haven't been there.

But I do know that you don't owe your mum anything. And to those saying to forgive her / show forgiveness, I'm not sure how you can give forgiveness when someone hasn't said sorry.

Whilst you mum might have had a bad upbringing, might have had MH problems, that does not make any of her actions understandable. She managed to treat other people / your sibling well.

Some of the posts on her are quite shocking. If you change the story, and say it's your abusive ex-husband who was dying, would people still say 'but he probably loved you deep down, and he hit you because he'd had a damaged childhood, so you should show him kindness in his dying days'?

My relationship with my mother was very different to yours- she wasn't perfect but I know she loved me.

However I would say, think only of yourself here. I believe very much in listening to your gut- it will tell you what is best for you.

I don't buy into the death scene as a time for forgiveness etc. If she dies knowing you think her a bad mother, so what? I don't believe in an after life, so she's not going to be pondering it for infinity.

What your family think shouldn't influence you. They obviously experienced her in a different way to you, and that's fine. Your experience, emotions etc are yours alone.

Think only of what you will get or lose from the encounter. Will you regret missing out? Maybe going will give you closure of some sort- seeing her weak and frail, truly believing she will soon be gone, maybe even triumph that her power to hit you going forward is over? Or make you feel that you took the opportunity to do the 'right thing' when you know she wouldn't have done the same for you if the situation was reversed?

You are the only person who has to live with what you do afterwards. Focus on that.

"Hurt you" not "hit"!

Slightly different situation because I’ve had no contact with my abusive father for over 4 decades. If I heard he was dying I would feel no need to see him. I feel absolutely nothing for him now, good or bad. It wouldn’t benefit me in any way.

Bottom line is, would seeing your mother benefit you?

@HideousKinky

OP I was in a very similar position when my mother died in 2014. If she had asked to see me, I would have gone. But she didn't. I felt OK about that because I had actually grieved for the relationship already.

This is what I referred to in my previous post. She hasn't asked to see you. Therefore there should be no guilt on your part for not going. She's still the same abusive woman she always was. She cannot even give in now, at the end of her life, because in her mind she's done nothing wrong. She'll never accept that she was a horrible mother. And you don't have to go and pretend otherwise.

When she dies, regardless of whether or not you see her now, you will possibly go through a whirlwind of emotions - perhaps sadness, anger, a moment of regret, etc. Or just as likely, you might just get on with it and not even shed a tear and feel relief that the abuse is over, you no longer have to think about her or feel guilty for not visiting. You'll no longer have to use any headspace on her. That latter is the outcome I hope for you, as you deserve to finally have peace after years of conflicted emotions

In all honesty I think the thing that will hit me the hardest and that I will grieve for the most when my mother dies, is the finality that I will never know motherly love.

This is exactly it, @Cyw2018. I thought I had accepted this finality but apparently there are layers and layers to it.

The other thing that has struck me is the realisation that on some level, I had actually believed my mother would live forever, or at least that she would outlive me. I am having some anxiety that I will have some awful accident or illness that will kill me before she goes.