mum is dying, not sure what I should do

[beastlyslumber]

I've been LC with my mum for more than a decade. We never had a good relationship, but I haven't cut her out completely because I do get on okay with the rest of the family and they get on okay with her. She has been very ill for a while with cancer that's no longer treatable, and she's now expected to live only a couple more months.

I don't know whether I should go and see her before she dies. To be clear, she hasn't said she wants me to visit. She has apparently been talking a lot about how important it is to her to know she's been a good mother, and I doubt if she'd want to take the risk of seeing me in case I don't go along with this. She wasn't a good mother to me. She was cold and unloving, a liar, manipulative, and I would go so far as to say, abusive. She did, however, have some good points, and there were times she helped me out as an adult (because my life was a mess, go figure). I don't think she's a bad person as such, but she was a bad mother, and she caused me a huge amount of trauma, pain and unhappiness in childhood and throughout my life. It wasn't until I went very LC with her that I started to gain some confidence and achieve some things in life.

I don't have any ill will towards her, but I don't know if it's right to visit her. A part of me still hopes deep down that she would want to see me and say sorry and tell me she loves me. But this is not what's going to happen. If I see her, it would have to be on her terms, which means going along with the story about her being such a wonderful mum. Maybe that's something I should do, out of compassion? There are things I would like to tell her, but the truth is that she wouldn't be able to 'hear' them anyway. I'm scared that I'll regret not saying goodbye in person. But on the other hand, I'm scared that it will make everything worse. Is it better to just stay away?

Perhaps ask some open questions, such as the one about whether she has any regrets, and give her plenty of time to answer? If she doesn't bring up things like you two not having spoken, that would also be an answer, wouldn't it? But obviously leaving the door open for comments about her regretting the fact that not all her children are equally loving, et cetera.

Be warned, though, my own mother mentioned a regret of hers to me a few years back, possibly thinking that I'd held it against her - but it was actually something I hadn't thought of, and left me thinking "Oh yes, you did that, too" 😬

(My mother has always been "difficult", but MN has taught me that it could be a lot worse!)

Perhaps ask some open questions, such as the one about whether she has any regrets, and give her plenty of time to answer? If she doesn't bring up things like you two not having spoken, that would also be an answer, wouldn't it?

Yes, that's what I'm thinking. I thought I would ask if she has any regrets, or if she wished anything had been different (less judgy version of the same question?) There are loads of questions I could add to that, such as 'do you wish you'd made the effort to get to know me?' or 'Why did you tell so many lies?' But I can't see those questions doing anything but annoying her! I think if I ask if she wished anything had been different, that will give her the opening to say anything she wants to.

I also think I will text her that question, so as to give her a chance to consider her answer. That way I will know that her answer is the one she wants to leave me with.

@beastlyslumber

So I spoke to my mum on the phone tonight. She called me. She said she wanted to give me a chance to ask any questions. I wasn't sure if she meant about her illness or anything else. I asked if she was scared about anything, and she said she wasn't. She said I should let her know if I wanted anything of hers. I said I didn't want anything. It was a very strange conversation. She only wanted to talk about herself, didn't ask me anything or have anything to say about the fact we haven't had a conversation for over a decade. She was quite pleasant, though, no little digs except for saying she hoped I would keep in touch with my siblings when she was gone.

I wonder if I should ask her if she has any regrets about her life, or specifically about how she treated me or our relationship? I didn't have a chance to prepare myself for the conversation so I didn't have anything to say, really.

To be honest with you I think the last thing that a dying person would want to do is be asked questions about regrets in life . I would hope that if you did visit then your empathy would take over and you would see that this is not all about you . I also had a difficult relationship with my mother - she wouldn't talk to me for weeks eg amongst other things . I never had it out with her and in the years since have reflected on it and realised she was just a product of her environment too and did the best that she could do in the situation . You don't seem to have accepted your relationship yet with your mother - I found that once I did it didn't bother me so much . I accept mine before she died . Have you spent time with someone who is dying before ?

My mother has been criticised by my brother but far from being her fault it was his .If the rest of the family get on with her ,maybe it’s the OP perspective on things which are out of kilter.
Personally I wouldn’t want people who had no time for me turning up on my death bed to ease their conscience .If she really was a bad mother and didn’t like you ,why would she want to see you?

@ferando81

My mother has been criticised by my brother but far from being her fault it was his .If the rest of the family get on with her ,maybe it’s the OP perspective on things which are out of kilter. Personally I wouldn’t want people who had no time for me turning up on my death bed to ease their conscience .If she really was a bad mother and didn’t like you ,why would she want to see you?

Maybe try browsing through the thread, it should answer your questions.

@ferando81

My mother has been criticised by my brother but far from being her fault it was his .If the rest of the family get on with her ,maybe it’s the OP perspective on things which are out of kilter. Personally I wouldn’t want people who had no time for me turning up on my death bed to ease their conscience .If she really was a bad mother and didn’t like you ,why would she want to see you?

You really have no idea how narcissistic behaviour, scapegoat/golden child dynamics, enablers work, do you?

Lots of people 'like' my mother, they have never had to live with her or have her as their primary care giver/supposed nurturer/in a position of absolute power. Some have even been on holiday with her, ONCE! Strangely there is rarely a repeat holiday.

To be honest with you I think the last thing that a dying person would want to do is be asked questions about regrets in life . I would hope that if you did visit then your empathy would take over and you would see that this is not all about you

She phoned me. She asked if I had any questions. I do, and I'm considering how to ask them.

Have you even read the thread?

@ferando81

My mother has been criticised by my brother but far from being her fault it was his .If the rest of the family get on with her ,maybe it’s the OP perspective on things which are out of kilter. Personally I wouldn’t want people who had no time for me turning up on my death bed to ease their conscience .If she really was a bad mother and didn’t like you ,why would she want to see you?

Ease my conscience? My conscience doesn't need easing. If anything, I'd be giving her an opportunity to ease her conscience.

Are you a narcissist enabler? Read the comments, too.

My Dh suffered a truly awful childhood and two weeks ago his father died in his 90s. He never went either before he died or to the funeral. Speaking to him he has no regrets as his father never once acknowledged his part in my Dh's life.

On the day of the funeral I took the day off and we went to the beach for the day.

She has apparently been talking a lot about how important it is to her to know she's been a good mother, and I doubt if she'd want to take the risk of seeing me in case I don't go along with this

Let me share my story, take from it what you will.

I've never had a good relationship with either parent and was neglected and abused as a child. I was nc for many years, made up for a few years, then nc for over ten years then tentatively made up about five years ago.

My dad got cancer Jan 2020. I did see him and supported him and mum. I did it simply because it's the right thing to do and I'm a normal human with compassion for humans who are suffering. I felt like I'd have done the same for anyone who was in need.

Dad died April 27th last year, in the height of the pandemic and full lockdown. I went over to stay on 24th.

On the night of 24th, before he was fully sedated, he was struggling to settle, district nurse had been called for sedation, I went down about 2am to see if I could do anything (he had an overnight carer) and as I walked down the stairs he sat up in bed and said "Van! I adore you".

I was so surprised, he'd never said anything like that to me. I sort of just said "oh, dad" and he said "what did I do wrong?".
At that point obviously there was no sense going into it and I felt it would help calm him so I said "nothing dad, you were a good dad, you always looked after us".

And I can honestly say those few words cleared away a lot of past hurt but also I felt I had done the decent thing and let a dying man die without further angst.

I felt I had done the decent thing and let a dying man die without further angst.

I'm glad you had this opportunity with your dad. It sounds like it helped you.

I'm not sure what I'm supposed to take from this, though. I'm not looking after my mum (she doesn't need me to). I'm not going to visit her. If I did, and she blurted out something kind as she was dying, of course I wouldn't take the opportunity to stick the boot in.

I do have compassion and don't want to cause her 'angst'. But since she has offered to answer my questions, and she is still in sound mind, I feel it's okay to ask her if she would have done anything differently, and then leave it open to her to respond as she sees fit.

I think you've decided on some level to ask carefully thought out questions.

I was LC with my mother for all my adult life. I never went NC because of the potential consequences with other family members. I never had any of the conversations with her that I could have chosen to have but know that she couldn't and wouldn't have answered in any meaningful way. I have no regrets about not seeing or speaking her when she was dying and it was a totally different type of grief than when my lovely Dad died.

I never went NC because of the potential consequences with other family members. I never had any of the conversations with her that I could have chosen to have but know that she couldn't and wouldn't have answered in any meaningful way.

This is exactly how I feel. I don't think she is capable of answering in a meaningful way. However, I have asked, via text. She hasn't answered and I suspect that will be the end of it. I had a feeling when she said "ask me anything" that she really meant "ask me anything that I can answer in a way that will make me look good/give me a chance to talk about how great I am". But maybe she'll surprise me.

@beastlyslumber

To be honest with you I think the last thing that a dying person would want to do is be asked questions about regrets in life . I would hope that if you did visit then your empathy would take over and you would see that this is not all about you

She phoned me. She asked if I had any questions. I do, and I'm considering how to ask them.

Have you even read the thread?

Yes I did actually .

I'm not sure then why you think I'm visiting her or why you imply I don't have the empathy or selflessness you think I should have. But of course you're entitled to your opinion.

From a personal experience I had my ex husband apologising profusely to me about the way he'd treated me etc etc. He had a long history of abuse with me and believed he was dying. Well guess what. He wasn't dying and rescinded the apology as soon as he recovered.

I realised then he was apologising so that he could die with a clear conscience not apologising to make me feel better (which is what an apology is). Ended it soon after that. Beware this is what your mother may do. However it is nevertheless an acknowledgement they were in the wrong. That is a good outcome in its way.

Yes, ask only open ended questions and your mother will talk if she wants too. At least if you see her you will know you have done everything you can to get answers. Not to go is to regret always not giving both of you that chance.

Absolutely don't say what you really want and accuse her of being a bad mother. That helps no one.

Beware this is what your mother may do. However it is nevertheless an acknowledgement they were in the wrong. That is a good outcome in its way.

Honestly, I don't think she'll ever acknowledge she has been less than perfect in any way. I just don't think she can do that. It is the thing that makes me feel most compassion towards her, tbh, because I think she must have been so hurt to have built such impermeable defences around herself. But in defending herself against hurt, she has also defended herself against love, connection, trust and genuine feeling. She was very cold and cruel, manipulative, and dishonest. For years, I looked so hard to find a chink in her armour, a crack where the light could get in. But I don't think it's there.

I've asked her an open question via text, about if she would have liked anything to be different. She hasn't responded and I don't expect she will. I don't feel the need to say anything to her from my perspective.

Your ex sounds awful - I'm sorry you went through that.

And I can honestly say those few words cleared away a lot of past hurt but also I felt I had done the decent thing and let a dying man die without further angst.

I think this is how I like to think I’d handle it @VanGoghsDog and what I was trying to articulate in my earlier post.

I’m certainly not saying that’s the way the op should handle it btw… Ultimately there’s no right and wrong and it’s a bloody nightmare trying to navigate and predict reactions, prepare emotionally, guard yourself, set boundaries etc etc with such parents…. It’s NEVER straightforward…. it seems the headf*ck we get from narcissists really is the gift that keeps on giving.

I hope you can settle with or without a response from your mother op.

Hi, OP. My dad passed away Monday morning. He had a very long illness then caught covid and didn't recover.
I hadn't seen him for a couple of years for a few reasons. No big fall out or anything, although I was the only out of my siblings and me who hadn't cut him out already (25 years ago) I think for me, it was damage limitation since he started to become unwell about 12 years ago. Lots of touch and go moments and I distanced myself a bit more each time to protect myself.

I went to see him and say goodbye Sunday night, and since then I've been doing the usual shoulda, woulda, coulda. I'm not sure if it is just part of the grieving process or genuine guilt about not seeing him more before he died. Either way, there's nothing I can do about it now.

I'm not sure what my point is other than, you have to do what is right for you, and be confident that you will stand by that decision when you have no way to change it. There's nothing worse than realising just how permanent death is once they're gone.

Sorry for your loss Millicent You made the right decisions for you and you have nothing to feel guilt over. As you say, you had to do a form of damage limitation, and that's really all you can do when a parent is that way.

I think ultimately I have to accept it is just too late for me and my mum. I cut contact with her long ago because I finally understood that she was never going to change, and nothing between us was ever going to change, and by hoping for that or wanting that, I was just hurting and re-traumatising myself over and over. Once I made that decision, everything in my life slowly got better and for the first time, I began to feel there was a way forward for me and some hope.

This situation has totally thrown me, but I am realising that I already made my decision, really, years ago. I think it was fair to give her the chance to reconnect with me now - if she had wanted to reconcile with me, I would want there to be the opportunity for that to happen. But I think I have to accept it's really just all too late. Even if she does want that, she's not capable of expressing it. I just have to accept this is how it is.

I hope you can settle with or without a response from your mother op.

Thank you. There has been no response whatsoever. I think that is likely to be all the answer I'll ever get. I guess I feel like I gave her an opening if she wanted to try to reconnect with me or reconcile in some way or even let me know she'd like to see me again. I will do as I decided before, and send some flowers and a nice card, and let that be my goodbye.

I think you’ve handled that really well, @beastlyslumber and I hope you can feel at peace with it all now.

Is there any possibility that your Mother is carefully considering your questions before she replies? I think mine would have liked a closer relationship with me but in her eyes it was my fault (I'm adopted we were very different people). She was also a narcissist.

I used to send my mother flowers quite often (birthday, Xmas) knowing that she would enjoy them whoever had sent them and I think that is a lovely gesture from you.

for you OP.
Maybe buy yourself a bunch at the same time as you buy some for your mum. And congratulate yourself on how far you have come after such a difficult childhood.

Negotiating the death of a parent with whom you did not have a straightforward relationship can be a lot to process.