mum is dying, not sure what I should do

[beastlyslumber]

I've been LC with my mum for more than a decade. We never had a good relationship, but I haven't cut her out completely because I do get on okay with the rest of the family and they get on okay with her. She has been very ill for a while with cancer that's no longer treatable, and she's now expected to live only a couple more months.

I don't know whether I should go and see her before she dies. To be clear, she hasn't said she wants me to visit. She has apparently been talking a lot about how important it is to her to know she's been a good mother, and I doubt if she'd want to take the risk of seeing me in case I don't go along with this. She wasn't a good mother to me. She was cold and unloving, a liar, manipulative, and I would go so far as to say, abusive. She did, however, have some good points, and there were times she helped me out as an adult (because my life was a mess, go figure). I don't think she's a bad person as such, but she was a bad mother, and she caused me a huge amount of trauma, pain and unhappiness in childhood and throughout my life. It wasn't until I went very LC with her that I started to gain some confidence and achieve some things in life.

I don't have any ill will towards her, but I don't know if it's right to visit her. A part of me still hopes deep down that she would want to see me and say sorry and tell me she loves me. But this is not what's going to happen. If I see her, it would have to be on her terms, which means going along with the story about her being such a wonderful mum. Maybe that's something I should do, out of compassion? There are things I would like to tell her, but the truth is that she wouldn't be able to 'hear' them anyway. I'm scared that I'll regret not saying goodbye in person. But on the other hand, I'm scared that it will make everything worse. Is it better to just stay away?

beastlyslumber No I didn't - she was in a nursing home and it was a heart attack which got her. You will be told by many people that you will regret not seeing her but it sounds like your mother is telling everyone the same crap as my mother did! It is indeed isolating and I really feel for you. Have a hand hold and xxx

The fact that it's so important to your mother that she has been a good mother makes me think she fears she hasn't been. My mum is similar. She wasn't great either but, differently from you, I'm fortunate because I love her

No, it's not that it's important to her that she's been a good mum. It's important to her that everyone THINKS she's been a good mum. That's a very different thing. Also, it's not that I don't love her. Of course I do, she's my mum. The problem is that she doesn't love me - I've tried to come to terms with that as an adult over the years, but as a child you can imagine the hurt and damage this caused.

Think how you'll feel after she's gone and imagine yourself having visited her and having not visited her. Which would make you feel better? Good luck with such a difficult decision.

Thank you very much for this.

@sunshinesupermum

beastlyslumber No I didn't - she was in a nursing home and it was a heart attack which got her. You will be told by many people that you will regret not seeing her but it sounds like your mother is telling everyone the same crap as my mother did! It is indeed isolating and I really feel for you. Have a hand hold and xxx

Thank you so much @sunshinesupermum I really appreciate that. I'm sorry you went through all of this, too xxx

Can I ask, was there any relief when your mum died, did anything change for you?

All I'd say is that when someone is about to die, I think that we ought to be compassionate and try to forgive their shortcomings. None of us is perfect and maybe your Mum had her own demons to contend with that made her a poor parent in your eyes

I disagree. Why feel guilted into forgiving an abusive parent just because they are dying? Compassion should go both ways and it appears op did not receive any from her mother growing up. Her mother doesn't deserve op's compassion now.

@beastlyslumber in your situation I'd find it very hard to forgive. I'd feel like a hypocrite going to see her and pretending all was well. You won't find comfort in telling her what she wants to hear. Chances are you'll be annoyed with yourself afterwards and then it's too late to be honest once she's gone. You said she hasn't asked to see you, so unless you actually want to see her before she dies, there's no reason to go.

@beastlyslumber

I do appreciate what you're saying about your mum not loving you. My mum used to say horrible things, like : having children is the worse thing that can happen to you, children ruin your life. All hurtful things when you're growing up and really knock your self confidence. I mean if your mother thinks having you around is awful, who on earth else would want to be with you?! I think my mum had post natal depression, which wasn't acknowledged in those days, and she remained depressed forever.
When I said I was fortunate to love her, it sounds like I was having a go at you, which I really wasn't. It was badly worded. I actually meant it from my personal point of view. I managed to work through everything and compartmentalise it so it all became handleable. And I think that was fortunate because it helped my mental health and I became stronger in dealing with her so our relationship is so much better these days and I can comfortably say I love her. I think of her as my equal now so she has no power over me.
I'm not sure how anything can change your belief (not saying it's not true) that she has never loved you so I don't know how you come to terms with that. Its not like you haven't given time and energy to the situation so any decision you make will be for solid reasons. Ultimately I think if you can look 6 months on and think what will give you fewer regrets, that's what you should do. Either go and see her and think you did everything expected of you. Or don't see her and know that this has been in line with what you've always felt to be the right thing to do.
I'm very sorry you find yourself in this position and hope you find some peace. The effect our mothers have on our lives truly never stops!

Two more things come to mind @beastlyslumber

1 Don't lower yourself to her level when it comes to not loving or showing it. You say she didn't love you. I honestly don't know how you are so sure of that. Maybe she was a damaged person and simply didn't know how to show love.

2 The fact you are asking what to do seems to say to me that you feel more like you should see her than not.
If you knew 100% that you didn't want to see her, you'd not come onto a forum.

I don't think when someone is on their death bed, it's time to 'pay back' what they didn't give you.

You have the chance to show how decent a human being you are.

Go along and say the things she wants to hear. She is dying. If you don't get your apology its sad, but doing this will make you feel better in the long run as you are being the better person. I would not risk feeling guilty if you continue to punish her for being a bad mother even as she was dying.

She told her daughter at 8 years old that she didn't love her. That is awful.

Forgiving her and doing the kind thing, is for you as well as her.

I agree Notaroadrunner

beastlyslumber I felt relief tbh. And more at peace with myself too.

Don’t listen to people telling you what you “should” do, or suggesting you’ll feel better.

This is something it’s impossible to understand if you’ve not had a parent or parents who treat you like this.

What’s made me feel better is understanding the damage they did to me, and I’m not going to be fake and pretend it’s all ok now.

Hi @beastlyslumber I’m sitting here with my Mum. She is far from dying. She does however have narcissistic tendencies and has been a shit mother in the past. I, for my own peace of mind, have let things go (I am now early 50s) And I think that’s key. Whatever you do should be for your own peace of mind. Your first responsibility is to yourself and those who rely on you, if seeing your Mum will help you come to terms with things or benefit you in the future mental health wise so you’re not wondering what if I’d gone then you should go. If it will cause turmoil and further frustrate or damage your relationship (or memory of it) further then don’t go. Be kind to yourself and I’m sorry you are in this situation. My Mum has also somewhat redeemed herself by helping me (financially) at a difficult time in my life, but it doesn’t undo the damage caused by her parental actions for most of my life. Those effects are with for ever and influenced damaging life choices I made

You say she didn't love you. I honestly don't know how you are so sure of that. Maybe she was a damaged person and simply didn't know how to show love.

Maybe. Maybe she really loved me, but for some reason, when I was a small child she needed to tell me that she didn't love me. She loved me, but she needed to double down on that and make sure she never ever told me or showed it. She loved me, but she tried for several years to convince me I was brain damaged. She loved me, but she threw stuff at me, and slapped me round the face and regularly gave me the silent treatment for days on end. You're right, though, I cannot know what was in her heart. And it's true that I had a roof over my head, and clothes and food and birthday presents. Is that love? Maybe it is. Maybe I'm ungrateful, because it wasn't enough for me.

This is so difficult. I think you need to consider whether visiting her will undo the progress that you've made. If you do see her, consider in advance what she might say and how you'll respond.

I think you could go, as a last act of (undeserved?) kindness.
If it eases the last few months of her life and soothes her enough to gloss over the truth, then why not?
She knows the truth, as do you, and it will not change because of a bit of glossing over.

@FVFrog

Hi *@beastlyslumber* I’m sitting here with my Mum. She is far from dying. She does however have narcissistic tendencies and has been a shit mother in the past. I, for my own peace of mind, have let things go (I am now early 50s) And I think that’s key. Whatever you do should be for your own peace of mind. Your first responsibility is to yourself and those who rely on you, if seeing your Mum will help you come to terms with things or benefit you in the future mental health wise so you’re not wondering what if I’d gone then you should go. If it will cause turmoil and further frustrate or damage your relationship (or memory of it) further then don’t go. Be kind to yourself and I’m sorry you are in this situation. My Mum has also somewhat redeemed herself by helping me (financially) at a difficult time in my life, but it doesn’t undo the damage caused by her parental actions for most of my life. Those effects are with for ever and influenced damaging life choices I made

Thank you for saying this. I'm sorry you had that experience. I know just what you mean about the damaging life choices. So much of my life has been determined by those childhood experiences.

I don't believe my mum is entirely bad and as I said, she did help me out more than once as an adult, which I am grateful for. I think 'narcissistic tendencies' probably sums it up. I actually think it's possible that something about me triggers her into certain behaviours, because I perceive that she is not as bad with my siblings, though she still has her moments. I think something emotionally vital to her depends on me being put on the outside of the family. She sees me as competition and it feels like life and death to her to win. Hard to explain and hard to understand. I've spent so many hours of my life trying to work her out. Ironically, she doesn't know me at all. She doesn't even call me by my name, but by a nickname I hate.

I would defiantly go and see her but the past is the past no need for reconciliations and grand gestures of forgiveness
If she says anything I'd say can we just focus on now .

I’d go see her. You might get the apology from her that you deserve and she some forgiveness from you (if you are able to). Otherwise she will die and you’ll wonder if she would have said sorry for being a shit mum. And living after, not knowing can be very hard.

Thank you so much to everyone and especially to those of you who understand what I'm talking about through your own experience You've all helped me to think it through.

Ultimately, she hasn't asked to see me or let anyone know she wants me to visit, so until and unless that happens, I will stay away. I like the idea of sending flowers and a note - I feel I can do that in a genuinely kind way without compromising anything. If she does ask me to visit, I will go, and will just do the grey rock/"that's not how I remember it" thing if the conversation goes that way.

. She loved me, but she needed to double down on that and make sure she never ever told me or showed it. She loved me, but she tried for several years to convince me I was brain damaged. She loved me, but she threw stuff at me, and slapped me round the face and regularly gave me the silent treatment for days on end.

From the outside and that is all any of us here can see, this update makes you mum look like a very damaged person, who perhaps had MH issues. It's a shame she didn't have counselling.

I don't think her behaviour as you describe here was anything to do with you as a person. She was damaged and you were her punchbag.
Yes, it's wrong she took it out on you BUT it wasn't about you.
It was about her and whatever pain, anger or disappointment she had inside of her. You just happened to be in the firing line.

As a child all you could 'see' was a mum not loving you, but underneath it was a woman who had her own deep issues, maybe from her own childhood, maybe from her marriage, whatever.

I don't know if you have ever explored therapy but maybe that's a route go go down now?

Perhaps see a counsellor/therapist before and after to help you work through it. That way you can decide what you want to get out of the meeting in a realistic way.

I also wonder if your mum would be willing to have a therapist there as a mediator? Im guessing the answer is no but in all honesty that would probably be the most satisfying for both of you.

Forgiving her and doing the kind thing, is for you as well as her.

^This.
Forgive her for not being the mother you deserved and for not being the mother she feels she should have been. It's that that's leading to her saying what a good mother she is - she's trying to convince herself, not others. She learnt how to be abusive because she was abused and she is not able to accept that she repeated that behaviour.

@MakemeaCake I mean this kindly, but you don't have any idea what you're talking about. Please stop trying to suggest that my mum loved me really, deep down, despite all the abuse. She might have done, who knows, but does it matter? (Rhetorical question.) Yes, my mum is a very damaged person. And I am a very damaged person because of her. I haven't abused any children, though. (And yes, I have had lots of therapy, and none of my therapists ever suggested that it would be beneficial to try to see things more from my mum's point of view. In fact, they had to work with me very intensely to get me to actually try to see things from my own point of view.)

I'm happy for you that you have no real insight or comprehension of these issues, because it means they haven't affected your life. But please accept that this also means you don't know better than me what my mum is like or how my childhood was. Thanks.

Oh sorry I spoke then @beastlyslumber. You asked for opinions and don't like mine. Fine.

Maybe you might consider professional help to enable you to come to terms with this either now, or in the future.
All the best anyway.

I'm not going to comment on this thread any more. I posted in relationships because I know there are people on this board who have had difficult/abusive/narcissistic parents and their advice was what I was seeking. For the rest of you, I appreciate that your comments have been kind and driven by good intentions, but it's quite difficult to hear these same things over and over again when they are so unhelpful. None of you have any special insight into my mum that will make everything make sense and be okay. Carry on if you want, but I'm going to hide the thread.