Close friend lied again - WWYD?

[CallMeCleo]

I have very few friends so value (and try hard to keep) the ones I have.

Last year a close friend told me a massive lie, for no reason. When I found out and I ended the friendship. Months later she contacted me to apologise, and I took her back because I love her company and had missed her.

We'd only met up twice since our reunion, when, a month before her birthday, I invited her to my house for that day, and she eagerly accepted. I said I'd buy all her favourite foods and we'd spend the day doing all the things she loves. I spent hours searching for a fairly pricey gift and a bespoke card, and had both personalised with her (unusual) name printed on them, some "happy birthday" bunting and balloons, and a cake.

An hour before she was due here she Skyped me to cancel. A group of women she worked with years ago, hundreds of miles away, had just informed her they were already en route to celebrate her birthday with her. They had not told her until the actual day as they "wanted it to be a surprise". The drive would take 3 or 4 hours each way.

Given her history of lying and the unlikeliness of the scenario I was sceptical but on balance reckoned that she would not risk losing me again this time forever by telling me such a massive lie. She's one of those people that is glued to her iPhone 24/7 and she promised to send me photos of the group --- but did not. I messaged her at 5pm reminding her about the photos, but she sent none - and still hasn't. At 6pm I Skyped her. With her was a small boy whom she claimed was the son of one of the "bunch of friends" who were "in another room". I asked her to let me see them on video but she made excuses and rang off.

I became suspicious and searched her FB friends. The boy was in fact the son of a friend of hers who lives very near her, whom she could see literally any day.

The story about the "group of friends" driving hundreds of miles was another big, fat, barefaced lie.

I would have had no problem changing the day she came here. It's her birthday, not mine, so I don't care what day she visits. I have no problem with her spending her birthday with the boy's mum and seeing me another day.

What bothers me most is that again she has looked me in the eye and told me a huge, blatant lie. She is shameless, too: no shiftiness, no mumbling, no avoiding eye contact; she's forthright and emphatic, and gives lots of (made up) detail. There was no reason to invent such a detailed, convolted lie; she could have simply said she was having a bad period, or had gone down with a cold, and was spending her birthday in bed.

Apart from the lying she is a perfect match for me as a friend. We have such a great time together, love the same activities and make each other laugh so much. I'm so gutted to discover that she clearly doesn't fear losing me.

I have not yet told her that I know.

I just don't know what to do.

I've asked someone who knows us both and she said, "Pretend that you don't know she lied, in order to preserve the friendship. Have her round on Saturday, give her a great birthday, and act as though nothing happened." But I find it impossible to be two-faced. To spend all that time with her, at close quarters, and to stay silent about what I know makes me a liar, too. And if I stay friends with her I will literally not believe a single thing she ever tells me.

Should I tell her I know she lied? If so, do I ask for an explanation and an apology, clear the air and carry on being friends? Or do I tell her I know, that she is a filthy lying cow, and that we are no longer friends?

@Bluedeblue

Given that we are all grown adults, is there really any need to "report" posts? We are not in school.

Yes, there is when they break talk guidelines. It's what MNHQ says to do, it's routine on a moderated forum.

They don't delete, generally, opinions but where people are directly insulted, called names etc.

Now, I'm meant to have hidden this thread I realise but somehow it's on my list again! Must re-hide.

You are the abuser.

And by the way, there you are again. That's infringing talk guidelines by directly calling me an abuser.

Not cool behaviour at all, feel sorry you have such a need to lash out. In my posts I empathised with your situation, and apologised at one stage if I'd inadvertently come across wrong. You of course ignored that & have torn into me.

Your posts were deleted & you're still at it. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I don't mind that you think what I say is rubbish, that's fine. But why do you continue to post so nastily?

OP, it was me who called you a stalker, not @EarringsandLipstick. In fact I think I was the nastiest of anyone, so if anybody deserves your ire, it’s me.

I actually came on to apologise for my post this morning - I suffered a bereavement yesterday, had no sleep, have awful PMT, and was distracting myself with a bit of mumsnetting on the bus to work while angry and half dead (bad idea) and basically suspected I may have come across as a snarky horror.

I did, it’s true. So sorry. But your whole thing STILL seems very dysfunctional to me, I have to say. Mainly because you essentially appear to loathe and despise this woman. So what are you doing even considering still being friends with her? It just sounds bad for both of you.

Best of luck whatever you decide, and sorry again for my hard words.

Your friend tells lies because she has MH issues. Would you ditch a friend with other health issues? My sister had this issue. My gran once called her Walter Mitty character and that made me realise that I could accept my sister for who she was. Could you do that? Stay friends but accept that she tells lies? She might start to relax with you, and if she does, and gets MH treatment, the lies will lessen/stop. My sis still has times when she's in her fantasy world, but I love her and I'm glad I didn't go NC. My gran was a wise owl BTW

I can see where you're coming from OP. I think in this situation perhaps you've invested a little too much in this friendship. I think I'd be just letting it fizzle out naturally and finding some other way to get in touch with the side of you she brings out, perhaps with someone who doesn't come with so much drama. I think you may be right about the big fibs, it sounds like an attention thing. You're probably not the first person she's told a huge whopper too. When I was young a stupid I sometimes told big whoppers and I didn't know why I did it. Perhaps when she's matured she might see life differently.

OP, your plans for her birthday were OTT in my opinion, especially as you describe her as quite a remote friend.

Her pulling out with such an unconvincing lie was very rude. Honestly, it sounds like you're better off without each other.

You've been really rude yourself towards people who have taken the time to give their perspective on your situation.

Your liar-friend wants you to know she was lying.

It’s a power play to see how much inappropriateness you will tolerate.

@thoselinesjustgetfainter

OP, your plans for her birthday were OTT in my opinion, especially as you describe her as quite a remote friend.

Her pulling out with such an unconvincing lie was very rude. Honestly, it sounds like you're better off without each other.

You've been really rude yourself towards people who have taken the time to give their perspective on your situation.

"OP, your plans for her birthday were OTT"

Yet again I explain: The birthday arrangements (present, bunting, balloons lunch, cake, music and games etc) are exactly what we did last year when she was living with me. She told me she wanted to have the same again.

I have most diligently thanked every single person who responded to the thread. That took me 3 hours. Then I was told there was no need, that I could have just written a casual "thanks for all the answers".

Obviously I objected to being falsely accused of being a jealous, controlling, creepy stalker. Wouldn't you?

I've been privately advised never to respond to deliberately goady, insulting posters, who are on MN purely to be as nasty as they possibly can, whilst hiding behind anonymity, and whose sport it to try to get other women banned. I'm taking that advice.

@RedBonnet

"Your friend tells lies because she has MH issues."

You don't know that she has MH issues. Diagnosing random people you only know 3rd hand via the internet seems dodgy.

"Would you ditch a friend with other health issues?"

It depends on what it was and how much it negatively affected their behaviour and my response. I've read many threads on MN where women are being abused by a DH with MH issues and the advice is never to stay and be compassionate but to LTB ASAP.

"MH issues" covers a very wide range of conditions, from mild depression to OCD to NPD. I loved a man very deeply but he turned out to have NPD and his red rage tantrums over nothing terrified me. You seem to be suggesting that I should have stayed with him because his MH issues were not his fault.

In the case of this woman friend, if she has a condition that makes her lie then maybe it's possible to keep her as an aquaintance, whilst bearing in mind that you cannot believe anything she says. But then what happens when one day she claims to have cancer, for example? Am I supposed to respond with "Yeah, yeah, course you have"? Because it could be true (cf "The Boy Who Cried Wolf").

The general concensus here has definitely been to end my association with her. My RL friends who know her are advising the opposite. I will take all this on board and come to a decision.

Not particularly relevant to the thread but wanted to set something straight - you can earn up to £292 per month before it starts being taken from benefits. So if you earn less than £292 p/m then you would still receive the full amount of benefits you're entitled to (which of course vary slightly depending on whether you have children or live with family vs living alone etc).

By OTT I meant all the stuff about personalised gift etc. Look, it's clear you think your actions are normal and ok. Some of us disagree. I personally think your friend was very rude, yes, and in your position I would cut ties. I also think that part of your fury towards her is because of the extreme effort you made - and many of us think that's an unusual effort to make for someone who's treated you badly in the past and who you're not particularly close to.

You seem quite cross with me and others. I wish I hadn't bothered responding. What a pointless thread.

Your friend sounds really messed up: to lie about someone's death, and so protractedly, just for attention. Then as soon as she's sucked you back in she wants a big birthday party - sounds childish and needy. Then blows you out. I would feel too humiliated to have anything to do with her. The mystery is why are your real life friends recommending you stay friends with her?

I had a friend who kept doing this. Draw a line under the friendship and move on.

It is not worth the heartache. I have.

@Illstartexercisingtomorrow

Your liar-friend wants you to know she was lying.

It’s a power play to see how much inappropriateness you will tolerate.

I think this could be a good point.

It really is simple. End the friendship.

If you want to stay friends you'll have to accept her odd behaviour. She's not going to change it.

What a bizarre, bizarre thread. A shame that MN have deleted posts that proved exactly what a poster is actually like. For all to see.

I'd lie too if you were stalking me.

Checking out if someone is lying is not stalking. It's using your common sense.

Please stop using such an awful thing as stalking really is, minimising the trauma it causes, to have a go at OP for checking if she's been lied to.

[quote CallMeCleo]@RedBonnet

"Your friend tells lies because she has MH issues."

You don't know that she has MH issues. Diagnosing random people you only know 3rd hand via the internet seems dodgy.

"Would you ditch a friend with other health issues?"

It depends on what it was and how much it negatively affected their behaviour and my response. I've read many threads on MN where women are being abused by a DH with MH issues and the advice is never to stay and be compassionate but to LTB ASAP.

"MH issues" covers a very wide range of conditions, from mild depression to OCD to NPD. I loved a man very deeply but he turned out to have NPD and his red rage tantrums over nothing terrified me. You seem to be suggesting that I should have stayed with him because his MH issues were not his fault.

In the case of this woman friend, if she has a condition that makes her lie then maybe it's possible to keep her as an aquaintance, whilst bearing in mind that you cannot believe anything she says. But then what happens when one day she claims to have cancer, for example? Am I supposed to respond with "Yeah, yeah, course you have"? Because it could be true (cf "The Boy Who Cried Wolf").

The general concensus here has definitely been to end my association with her. My RL friends who know her are advising the opposite. I will take all this on board and come to a decision.[/quote]
You said:

"She then had psychological counselling"

I didn't diagnose her with MH issues, I was responding to your own comments.

I think I'm a bit late to this party, but OP you don't have to justify or explain anything to mumsnet players who are being unhelpful. Just ignore their replies.

I would have been really pissed too and had a look at her FB to check out if any chance she was telling the truth. If that makes me an abusive stalker so be it

I think the fact you wanted proof over Skype is quite worrying to be honest… not sure I would want to be friends with somebody who was checking up on me.

To be honest I am not sure what this whole drama is about. She lied because for this or another reason she didn’t want to or couldn’t make it the day you agreed. Not nice, but is it a crime big enough to end friendship and cut somebody out of your life? She is obviously not a good liar otherwise as you suggest she would have just said, she is ill. You say you are not very close, so continue not being close and next time don’t make too much effort.
I think people called you intense because you want a proof of her lie to ditch her whereas many people including me would have just shrugged it off thinking she is unreliable and a bad liar and would have gone on with our lives specially if she is not very close friend of yours.

@Sunflower1970

I think the fact you wanted proof over Skype is quite worrying to be honest… not sure I would want to be friends with somebody who was checking up on me.

it's very odd I agree 🤔

If her original story had been true, why didn't she invite you to be with her long distance friends?

Op I hope this might be helpful (I have had abusive comments on MN too when posting). My best friend is a compulsive liar. Lives in fantasy land, has a criminal record. She is also hugely generous, funny and would help me out day or night. I find it exhausting sifting through the 'stories' she tells but I miss her company if I don't see her. She does have mental health issues from PTSD. She refuses counselling and says she is fine. If she didn't want to do something she has made up an elaborate story, car accident, fight with partner etc. I worry when she does this but have learnt to ignore the whoppers. Everyone calls her Walter Mitty. A shame really as she is funny and clever.