Close friend lied again - WWYD?

[CallMeCleo]

I have very few friends so value (and try hard to keep) the ones I have.

Last year a close friend told me a massive lie, for no reason. When I found out and I ended the friendship. Months later she contacted me to apologise, and I took her back because I love her company and had missed her.

We'd only met up twice since our reunion, when, a month before her birthday, I invited her to my house for that day, and she eagerly accepted. I said I'd buy all her favourite foods and we'd spend the day doing all the things she loves. I spent hours searching for a fairly pricey gift and a bespoke card, and had both personalised with her (unusual) name printed on them, some "happy birthday" bunting and balloons, and a cake.

An hour before she was due here she Skyped me to cancel. A group of women she worked with years ago, hundreds of miles away, had just informed her they were already en route to celebrate her birthday with her. They had not told her until the actual day as they "wanted it to be a surprise". The drive would take 3 or 4 hours each way.

Given her history of lying and the unlikeliness of the scenario I was sceptical but on balance reckoned that she would not risk losing me again this time forever by telling me such a massive lie. She's one of those people that is glued to her iPhone 24/7 and she promised to send me photos of the group --- but did not. I messaged her at 5pm reminding her about the photos, but she sent none - and still hasn't. At 6pm I Skyped her. With her was a small boy whom she claimed was the son of one of the "bunch of friends" who were "in another room". I asked her to let me see them on video but she made excuses and rang off.

I became suspicious and searched her FB friends. The boy was in fact the son of a friend of hers who lives very near her, whom she could see literally any day.

The story about the "group of friends" driving hundreds of miles was another big, fat, barefaced lie.

I would have had no problem changing the day she came here. It's her birthday, not mine, so I don't care what day she visits. I have no problem with her spending her birthday with the boy's mum and seeing me another day.

What bothers me most is that again she has looked me in the eye and told me a huge, blatant lie. She is shameless, too: no shiftiness, no mumbling, no avoiding eye contact; she's forthright and emphatic, and gives lots of (made up) detail. There was no reason to invent such a detailed, convolted lie; she could have simply said she was having a bad period, or had gone down with a cold, and was spending her birthday in bed.

Apart from the lying she is a perfect match for me as a friend. We have such a great time together, love the same activities and make each other laugh so much. I'm so gutted to discover that she clearly doesn't fear losing me.

I have not yet told her that I know.

I just don't know what to do.

I've asked someone who knows us both and she said, "Pretend that you don't know she lied, in order to preserve the friendship. Have her round on Saturday, give her a great birthday, and act as though nothing happened." But I find it impossible to be two-faced. To spend all that time with her, at close quarters, and to stay silent about what I know makes me a liar, too. And if I stay friends with her I will literally not believe a single thing she ever tells me.

Should I tell her I know she lied? If so, do I ask for an explanation and an apology, clear the air and carry on being friends? Or do I tell her I know, that she is a filthy lying cow, and that we are no longer friends?

I totally get what you mean. I don’t think you’re intense at all. I think it’s a case of she means a lot to you as a friend and it’s hard to accept what she’s been doing. I get all the looking on Facebook as you were trying to see if she was telling the truth. She doesn’t seem to be so I think what you need to do is block and leave her alone. Let her do what she needs to do. She can’t be your friend, there is no trust and you will always be wary of everything she is saying to you. Move on and forget about her. It’s hard but you need to x

@CallMeCleo

If you're going to post on a public forum, expect a range of opinions. I wouldn't get too wound up by responses, you don't need to defend yourself or get shouty if you dont agree with something someone has said - we are strangers on the internet after all! Go and have a cuppa and calm down a bit.

It’s not that how often you contact her is intense, it’s the intensity of your feelings around the whole relationship. It does sound pretty unhealthy so I’d try to move on.

[quote CallMeCleo]@FairyDusting

"If a woman came on here saying her ex had previously cheated and she had trust issues and was asking her DP to send her photos of where he was and who he was with to prove he was telling the truth..."

That is NOT what happened? Why are you deliberately twisting my account of what happened in order to throw the blame for this on me?

I've already explained that at NO TIME did I tell her that I was demanding proof that she wasn't lying. I have explained in great detail that she is a person who is glued to her phone and always takes loads of pictures of every event. Therefore WHEN I suspected she was lying, it was easy for me to say in a CASUAL, breezy, friendly and cheerful tone "Oh, do send me a group pic when your friends turn up!" and she replied in an equally lighthearted, happy, cheerful manner that she definitely would.

This is a NORMAL convo between friends. You seem hell bent on pathologising this. Are you saying that every time someone says in a friendly fashion, "Oh, do send me a photo" that they are a deranged stalker?

I'm really upset about discovering that my friend has lied to me, and you seem to be on a mission to try to hurt and upset me even more.

I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG![/quote]
Obviously that is not what happened. You said you wanted truth because you didn’t trust her. I have gave an example where if an poster asked for photographic proof of the their partner doing something because they didn’t trust them then they would be told to accept the situation as it is or not ask for photographic proof and move on. If you think she’s still lying to you what’s the point in going to all that effort? That’s not what you did though is it? You said you asked her for a photo, didn’t get one so reminded her and then Skyped her? Saw a boy and wasn’t happy with that so went searching for him on Facebook?

Nobody is on a mission to ‘hurt’ you, they are simply pointing out that your behaviour is extremely very intense for someone who presumably reached out only 4 days ago (June 8th?) after nearly a year. Why are you searching locations and distances? From your posts it’s pretty obvious that your friend had nobody to spend her birthday with and that’s why she reached out to you and then she got a better offer and that’s why she lied. You’re both better off out of the friendship.

Even if she wasn't lying, I'd think it was pretty poor form on her part to let you go to all the trouble of arranging a birthday thing for her then cancel at such short notice. The fact that she WAS lying really does suggest that she didn't want to come - for whatever reason.
As regards the photos, your OP implies that you contacted her twice to remind her to send them, which might be why people think you were a bit persistent rather than casual.

I think some people might forgive/move on from this, others not - perhaps the main thing to examine is your own reaction and what it says about your feelings towards this person. You've called her a "filthy lying cow" and referred to her "massive" lie several times. Is this a friendship you want to continue? What would you like to happen now?

@burnoutbabe

I don't think you are intense in this. I am pretty logical and I'd want to have evidence before I accused someone of being a liar so I knew in my my own mine I was correct. Checking Facebook takes a few minutes as does checking a journey planner.

I may not Skype them for proof but I'd definitely be looking at their social media to see whether it showed these visitors.

I mean why not just say your sick if you don't want to see you on the day. Flu like symptoms etc. That's what a normal person would do.

Thank goodness for this rational, fair, logical post!!! Thank you @Burntoutbabe! This is what I have been trying to explain. I cannot ditch a friend for lying without first satisfying myself that she was, in fact, lying.

I quickly googled the two towns as I was not sure how far apart they were, and wanted to judge the feasibility of friends she has not seen for years driving that distance/time with preschool children on board.

She could easily have told me she was ill and I would have accepted that without question and simply rescheduled her birthday visit for this Saturday (which actually suits me better as our mutual acquaintance will also be able to come as she won't be working that day, and I would not have to absent myself from my business).

Just like the lie that her Nan had died, this lie was pointless and quite unnecessary.

Why are you being so nasty to me when all I did was be honest, truthful, and a good friend to a young woman who had nobody to spend her birthday with?

I'm not trying to be nasty, so my apologies.

This woman isn't your friend. While you may have been kind to her, you are also not her friend.

The relationship is dysfunctional, indicated by you thinking you have 'right' to know about a lie.

If you think she's lied (as it seems), just stop being in touch. Even without the lie, she cancelled an arrangement at no notice, which isn't good.

Everything you describe about your relationship sounds deeply unbalanced tho. The balance of power, this 'older woman helping young woman with no friends' narrative you keep pushing.

Of course people can be friends with 20 year age gaps. But you keep pushing how you helped her, the whole birthday party thing, her begging contact.

For both your sakes, move on now, and maybe reflect on your own behaviour.

[quote MaMaD1990]@CallMeCleo

If you're going to post on a public forum, expect a range of opinions. I wouldn't get too wound up by responses, you don't need to defend yourself or get shouty if you dont agree with something someone has said - we are strangers on the internet after all! Go and have a cuppa and calm down a bit.[/quote]
I don't mind a range of opinions. In fact, that is exactly what I was asking for: opinions on whether I should ditch her or not.

What I object to is being lied about, having my posts twisted to suit someone's agenda of wanting to attack me and make this incident MY fault instead of hers. That isn't a "range of opinion" that is an unwarranted personal attack.

How can it be considered "stalking" to look at a close friend's Facebook?

What the fuck is Facebook for, then? Why do people upload photos if even their own friends are not supposed to look at them? Why not just keep them on your phone, if others are not supposed to see them?

How can anyone claim that it's "stalking" and "weird" to look at things that friends have deliberately posted publicly on social media? That's not rational.

Oh, do send me a photo"

But you said this NOT because you really wanted a group shot of her & her long-distance pals, but for the express reason that you thought she lied (which it's clear to anyone that she did, given the you already said she's no friends).

You didn't do it casually. You did it to catch her out.

That's the odd, stalker-ish behaviour 🤷🏻‍♀️ combined with the FB-combing about the small boy.

How can it be considered "stalking" to look at a close friend's Facebook?

It is when you are doing it to prove a likely quite vulnerable person is lying to you.

This woman lies, and in a really strange way. Of course there are psychological issues at play.

Your relationship with her isn't at all unhealthy & your hysteria here is very odd.

OP,

I think you are getting a very hard time on here.

I wouldn't bother with any drama, I would simply move on.

She clearly has issues but lying is very tiresome.

Chalk it down and move on.

She sounds very messed up. I can’t bear people like that in my life, so I would end the friendship personally. But if you enjoy her company, I would suggest you down-grade the friendship - lower your expectations, don’t make any complex arrangements, don’t go to too much trouble - just enjoy the fun times and take everything she says with a big pinch of salt.

I wouldn't bother with any drama, I would simply move on.

That's what everyone has been telling OP.

It's OP that's ramping up the drama. I don't see her getting a hard time. I see robust responses to very odd behaviour on her part.

She's a pathological liar. I don't think you should continue to have a relationship with her, even superficially. You can't trust her and she could really hurt you.

I used to have a friend like this and there was other destructive behaviour as well as the whopping lies. She stole stuff, manipulated, was overly sexualised etc - basically created havoc wherever she went. Aside from this she was fun but we had to ditch her.

@FairyDusting

"you wanted truth because you didn’t trust her"

No, I wanted proof because her story was unfeasible and she's lied to me before.

"Saw a boy and wasn’t happy with that so went searching for him on Facebook?"

No, you are twisting things again. When I saw how young the boy was, I started wondering if a mother really would stick him in a car for a drive of 500 miles to spend a few hours with someone she hasn't seen for years and the boy had never met. I suspected he was in fact a local boy she sometimes babysits. And I was right.

"your behaviour is extremely very intense for someone who presumably reached out only 4 days ago"

You've got it all wrong. I have already explained all this in tiny detail! SHE CONTACTED ME -- I did not "reach out" to her. After no contact for five months she asked to be friends again in January. Since then she has made all the running. I had never contact her in any way until 8th June, her birthday, to remind her to send the promised photo(s).

"Why are you searching locations and distances?"
To find out if it was feasible that women she had no seen for years would drive to see her. I was not sure where the town was geographically, I guessed the drive might be two hours or so but when I checked Google it is in fact nearly 5 hours each way. This information helped me to realise that she was lying. What's wrong with looking at Google? Isn't it there to inform us? Why are you painting me as a villain here? I did not want to falsely accuse her of lying, so I was gathering information. ANd that info really helped because there is no way someone is going to drive preschool children for 10 hours/500 miles on one day to see an ex colleague.

"From your posts it’s pretty obvious that your friend had nobody to spend her birthday with and that’s why she reached out to you and then she got a better offer and that’s why she lied."

A better offer? A local friend she can see literally any day, who came round at the last minute versus a planned birthday party given by someone she constantly seeks contact with and sees very rarely?

Tell her you drove past her house and could see a great shindig going on. And it's a shame you weren't invited....

I just wanted to add another voice of agreement with burnoutbabe. Your 'investigation' was totally justified given the circumstances. I personally think now that she has been caught out twice, you should take a step back. I think you are a generous and caring person and would naturally set yourself up for more letdowns from her, even if you were being wary.

And ignore the people who are calling you an abusive stalker. When you’ve gone to lots of trouble for someone, and they’re basically taking the piss by telling you a big fat lie, then you’re entitled to do a bit of social media research. If people don’t like being caught out, then they shouldn’t lie. Simple.

@CallMeCleo

In your OP you say "I became suspicious and searched her FB friends. The boy was in fact the son of a friend of hers who lives very near her" - that definitely sounds like you've searched her friends list (and you don't know this other woman) to go snooping/FB stalking - whatever you want to call it. If you were 'close friends' with this woman, surely you'd know what her child looks like? Do you see how that creates a misunderstanding and doesn't put you in the best light and may explain part of why people are saying you're being intense and behaving a strange way? You do need to take some responsibility for that.

The op had dug deep to prove to herself it isn't her losing her mind imo!!

Don't bother arguing with the people saying it is intense etc. People on here often have a strange view of friendship as something that can be picked up and put down when it is convenient-- and god forbid you ever expect anything from a friend at any time!

I see why you are pissed off and why you looked into it to be sure before you formed a reaction. She may be a compulsive liar. Or she may have some heavy anxiety issues. I have told some lies to get out of social engagements due to anxiety/depression, because I was ashamed to be cancelling yet again. You know best what is likely to be going on and how she would respond if you brought it up etc.

You can either:

1. Continue to be friends as normal
2. Still be friendly but back off from her so she is more of an aquaintence
3. End the friendship directly
4. End the friendship by letting it drift
5. Have a talk with her and see what she says, then do one of the above

What does your gut tell you to do?

I have only read your posts OP but this woman sounds like she has a serious personality disorder. The two lies you know about are beyond outrageous. The birthday one is definitely not just an excuse to get out of seeing you but like a fantasy she concocted and wanted to believe herself. It sounds like she has few people in her life for a good reason.

Even being such fun when you do meet sounds suspicious to me, and all part of her issues. My good friends aren't always great fun when we meet up- sometimes we have a great time, sometimes less so for whatever reason, but they don't lie and play games with me.

You could choose to keep being friends with her, but you would have to accept her as she is (which isn't her fault), and you would also need to accept that even the apparent good times you have with her aren't necessarily an authentic experience.

What you couldn't do is desperately keep trying to uncover the lies she will inevitably tell.

You remind me that as a child, I had two friends at different times, who blatantly lied frequently. Even as a child I knew they were lying but couldn't call them out on it. I never felt close to either and the friendships dwindled because of it. As an adult looking back, all I knew about their situations is one was going through the divorce of her parents- interestingly she stayed with her father who remarried and moved away - to stay with the father was even rarer then than it is now. The other had a brother who left home before he finished school which made me think the family dynamics were definitely unhealthy there.

Please just fuck off

This breaks MN guidelines. You are incapable of reading posts that point out your odd behaviour and so are resorting to flat out abuse & personal insults. (Which is not what you have received, despite your interpretation).

OP, I'll say it again & then leave you to it: you're intense in respect of this relationship, how you behave isn't in anyway normal in friendships, and responding like this is utterly hysterical.

I’ve never maintained a successful relationship because I’m scared of losing the other party. Only because of positive qualities they have, positive experiences we share, because we enhance each other’s lives in xyz ways respectively - motivated by love/respect and not fear!!

To state that people should be moderating their behaviour or keeping the other party happy because of a fear of losing them, is not healthy and indicates a power imbalance and/or a generally unhealthy context.

Personally when confronted with a ridiculous yarn such as the visiting colleagues, I would have probably laughed in her face and made it clear I thought it was bollocks in a “what are you like? At least make it realistic!” type thing.

You already know she’s a liar so either accept she does this (by the sounds of it she’s constructing these elaborate tales to avoid telling the basic truth as the basic truth involves her being the decision-maker in cancelling plans, rather than a passive role of unexpected guests en route), or don’t accept it.

I agree it all sounds very intense.