Close friend lied again - WWYD?

[CallMeCleo]

I have very few friends so value (and try hard to keep) the ones I have.

Last year a close friend told me a massive lie, for no reason. When I found out and I ended the friendship. Months later she contacted me to apologise, and I took her back because I love her company and had missed her.

We'd only met up twice since our reunion, when, a month before her birthday, I invited her to my house for that day, and she eagerly accepted. I said I'd buy all her favourite foods and we'd spend the day doing all the things she loves. I spent hours searching for a fairly pricey gift and a bespoke card, and had both personalised with her (unusual) name printed on them, some "happy birthday" bunting and balloons, and a cake.

An hour before she was due here she Skyped me to cancel. A group of women she worked with years ago, hundreds of miles away, had just informed her they were already en route to celebrate her birthday with her. They had not told her until the actual day as they "wanted it to be a surprise". The drive would take 3 or 4 hours each way.

Given her history of lying and the unlikeliness of the scenario I was sceptical but on balance reckoned that she would not risk losing me again this time forever by telling me such a massive lie. She's one of those people that is glued to her iPhone 24/7 and she promised to send me photos of the group --- but did not. I messaged her at 5pm reminding her about the photos, but she sent none - and still hasn't. At 6pm I Skyped her. With her was a small boy whom she claimed was the son of one of the "bunch of friends" who were "in another room". I asked her to let me see them on video but she made excuses and rang off.

I became suspicious and searched her FB friends. The boy was in fact the son of a friend of hers who lives very near her, whom she could see literally any day.

The story about the "group of friends" driving hundreds of miles was another big, fat, barefaced lie.

I would have had no problem changing the day she came here. It's her birthday, not mine, so I don't care what day she visits. I have no problem with her spending her birthday with the boy's mum and seeing me another day.

What bothers me most is that again she has looked me in the eye and told me a huge, blatant lie. She is shameless, too: no shiftiness, no mumbling, no avoiding eye contact; she's forthright and emphatic, and gives lots of (made up) detail. There was no reason to invent such a detailed, convolted lie; she could have simply said she was having a bad period, or had gone down with a cold, and was spending her birthday in bed.

Apart from the lying she is a perfect match for me as a friend. We have such a great time together, love the same activities and make each other laugh so much. I'm so gutted to discover that she clearly doesn't fear losing me.

I have not yet told her that I know.

I just don't know what to do.

I've asked someone who knows us both and she said, "Pretend that you don't know she lied, in order to preserve the friendship. Have her round on Saturday, give her a great birthday, and act as though nothing happened." But I find it impossible to be two-faced. To spend all that time with her, at close quarters, and to stay silent about what I know makes me a liar, too. And if I stay friends with her I will literally not believe a single thing she ever tells me.

Should I tell her I know she lied? If so, do I ask for an explanation and an apology, clear the air and carry on being friends? Or do I tell her I know, that she is a filthy lying cow, and that we are no longer friends?

@AlternativePerspective

If this was someone posting that their partner was texting and calling them demanding to see pictures of the people they were with they’d be told they were in an abusive relationship and to get rid.

Your friend is in an abusive friendship and you are the abusive one.

I suspect she lied because she is afraid of your reactions to daring to have other friends.

Honestly she is the one who is well rid.

You could not be more wrong.

The sole reason I was checking was because we had a firm arrangement to meet up and she told a massive lie at the last minute and I wanted to satisfy myself that she really WAS lying because I did not want to end the friendship if she wasn't in fact lying.

I am not "abusive". I was trying to do a nice thing for a young woman living many hundreds of miles from her family who has very few friends and no partner.

To suggest I don't want her to have other friends is insane. I just don't think it's acceptable to suddenly cancel firm plans made a month previously to see someone who literally lives around the corner who she can see any time, nor to lie.

@MichelleScarn

Do you see a power issue in the relationship? I found reckoned that she would not risk losing me again -- this time forever to be a bit self important.

No. Both parties in any friendship, romantic relationship or marriage should behave well towards one another out of fear of losing the other party. That's why we don't treat others like shit, isn't it? Because we don't want to lose them.

The "power" works both ways. In this case, I have treated her extremely well and she has told me two massive, pointless lies.

How the hell have I ended up being the villain here? I offered to do a nice thing for her, that she very much wanted, bought her a lovely present, and she has lied to me and treated me like an absolute mug.

I don't think you're abusive towards her at all. You tried to do something really nice which she's thrown back in your face. I'd not bother with her again as she doesn't appreciate the effort.

You could message her and ask her outright why she lied, but don't expect the truth.

I’ve read your last post and my original post still stands. It doesn’t matter what your tone was when you ‘breezily’ suggested she sent photos, and then reminded her, and then Skyped her. You still did it? It’s still very intense? My abusive ex didn’t always angrily demand I send him things he’d always be like “oh let me see” but I knew he wanted proof to see where I was. An adult shouldn’t have to do that.

You looking on her page for this boy and then searching the exact miles and distance for this drive is bonkers IMO. You’re massively over invested and I’m not surprised she felt like she couldn’t tell you the truth.

Would you forgive her for lying again or would this be the final straw for you?

If I enjoyed her company, I think I'd - not forgive, but try to accept the friendship for what it was, see the friend as someone to have a good time with, but not someone to trust, rely on or confide in at a deeper level. I wouldn't mention the lie. And I'd let her do the running in future for meet-ups and see what happened.

I suspect if you moved the friendship to a superficial level, it would gradually and painlessly fizzle out - and personally I would prefer this to the drama of formally cutting contact with her.

But your update doesn’t really change the impression that, even if you’re not the one initiating contact, you’re nonetheless the one far more heavily invested in the friendship, having her to stay, arranging elaborate birthdays two years in a row, taking up her hints, going online looking for ‘incontrovertible proof’ of a lie, and yes, using the language of a betrayed lover.

I’m certainly not ‘labelling you a bad person’, only pointing out that you say yourself you don’t have many friends and it sounds as if you’re over invested in this one. To go from throwing her out last August to making elaborate and pricy day-long birthday preparations with only two interim visits sounds over the top to me, and I’d be interested in her side of why she told the lie about having other plans sprung on her.

@custardbear

Does she lie to everyone or just you? She sounds very strange to make up such crazy lies?

I don't know whether she lies to others because we only have one mutual friend and that is someone who is a close friend of mine for many years but who has only met her briefly a few times.

She has often mentioned in chatting that she has fallen out with lots of people, including her own family, but she has never said why, other than always painting it as the other person who was at fault. I guess that is a red flag of sorts.

Posters have asked about the previous lie last year. I came home one day to find her sobbing her heart out, saying her Nan had died and she was utterly devastated. Then over the next two or three weeks she talked a lot about her Nan, and went into great detail about the forthcoming funeral arrangements, explained in detail how lockdown was making things so difficult, getting me to help her to plan her train journey across the country for the funeral. Turned out her Nan had died years earlier. When it all came out and I asked why she'd lied she said she didn't know. She then had psychological counselling and the counsellor thought she had a problem with attention-seeking.

And why not just enjoy her company, which you obviously like, on a much more casual basis, without all this drama?

God she sounds a pain in the arse. Ditch her.

OP, your relationship sounds really unhealthy. On both sides.

You really sound incredibly intense, and your actions were really odd, on finding out that your friend had cancelled so last minute. You don't need any 'proof' of her lie: firstly, it was of course a lie as it was far too far-fetched; secondly, in a normal situation, you would have just told her cancelling like this was poor form, and got annoyed.

She clearly has some psychological issues, but the nature of your friendship is very dysfunctional. You describe your relationship very strangely - her personality, how she contacts you & you never contact her, and the FB stalking behaviour is absolutely creepy.

Now - don't do anything further. Stop contact. Move on.

@Arbadacarba

Would you forgive her for lying again or would this be the final straw for you?

If I enjoyed her company, I think I'd - not forgive, but try to accept the friendship for what it was, see the friend as someone to have a good time with, but not someone to trust, rely on or confide in at a deeper level. I wouldn't mention the lie. And I'd let her do the running in future for meet-ups and see what happened.

I suspect if you moved the friendship to a superficial level, it would gradually and painlessly fizzle out - and personally I would prefer this to the drama of formally cutting contact with her.

This seems to be one feasible solution. It's in line with what my (true) friend has suggested. This (true) friend has known me 10 yrs and has witnessed the amount of fun and pleasure that "Fibber" and I get from each other's company and is telling me not to throw that away.

I will have to consider whether I can hide the fact that I know she lied again, and enjoy the fun bits of being with her whilst taking everything she says with a large pinch of salt.

I suppose I could see how that goes and if I cannot bear it, cut contact.

Incidentally she has always told me that she has a boyfriend who lives hundreds of miles away, whom she has only met twice in three years. I now suspect he does not exist.

@GloriousMystery You are understandably traumatised by the mistreatment meted out to you by your ex. But don't try painting me with the same brush. This woman has form for pointless lying and I have the right to find out whether this was another lie.

@GloriousMystery

And why not just enjoy her company, which you obviously like, on a much more casual basis, without all this drama?

I appreciate you returning with this possible solution instead of slinging mud at me. Thanks.

I think we are already "casual": I have only contacted her once in six months and in all that time only seen her twice and only for about 2 hours each time. Considering we live only 3 miles apart that isn't much contact at all.

I had a friend like this too. We got it off so much but she told me a massive lie and her boyfriend gave it away as we were chatting one night as he apparently didn’t know but he was talking to me about it. Then when she found out he had spoken to me about it and she was caught out tried to blame me for talking to him about it!! I stepped away for a while and as we worked together it was hard to not be around her. I gave her the benefit of the doubt and the lies continued... would tell me one version and a week later that would change. All came to a head as she had been lying and caught out again and then messaged me saying she wanted to kill herself because we weren’t speaking etc. I’m not about to be emotionally blackmailed into a friendship and being manipulated about why she lied etc. Had to walk away...block and quit my job! It’s hard and it’s shit because I loved my job but my head is in such a better place. I honestly never thought these people existed, that lying and manipulation is second nature to them.

*hit it off

You need to ditch eachother. She's a liar and you are very very intense. Not a good match.

I have the right to find out whether this was another lie.

No. You don't have any such 'right'.

You do have the right to end the 'friendship' which I think would be best for you both.

You don't trust her (understandably) but it doesn't seem like you have any true basis for a friendship either. It's very unbalanced. She's using you to fill some need she has.

The accusatory, snoopy behaviour by you is unedifying.

@Rooroobear - I am very sorry to hear what happened to you :-(

Reading your post it suddenly struck me that I have no idea how many lies my friend has told me. I have "caught her out" twice, but for all I know there may be dozens more that have not been exposed.

@EarringsandLipstick

I have the right to find out whether this was another lie.

No. You don't have any such 'right'.

You do have the right to end the 'friendship' which I think would be best for you both.

You don't trust her (understandably) but it doesn't seem like you have any true basis for a friendship either. It's very unbalanced. She's using you to fill some need she has.

The accusatory, snoopy behaviour by you is unedifying.

This. She clearly has issues and it seems the obvious thing would be to end the friendship for both of your sakes. If a woman came on here saying her ex had previously cheated and she had trust issues and was asking her DP to send her photos of where he was and who he was with to prove he was telling the truth she would be told to leave him or accept what’s happened and move on. That’s not healthy behaviour and you’re using her own previous unacceptable actions to justify yours.

@MaMaD1990

You need to ditch eachother. She's a liar and you are very very intense. Not a good match.

@MamaD1990

From the day she moved out last August, until June 8th, I did not contact her in any way.

How can you possibly label that as "very, very, intense"?

@EarringsandLipstick

I have the right to find out whether this was another lie.

No. You don't have any such 'right'.

You do have the right to end the 'friendship' which I think would be best for you both.

You don't trust her (understandably) but it doesn't seem like you have any true basis for a friendship either. It's very unbalanced. She's using you to fill some need she has.

The accusatory, snoopy behaviour by you is unedifying.

@EarringsandLipstick

"You don't have any such 'right'."

Yes, I do.

How can I possibly make the decision to end our friendship on the basis of her having told me a lie, until I have established that she was, in fact, lying?

I have never "snooped" on her -- until I needed to find out if she was lying on this one occasion about this one specific thing.

Why are you being so nasty to me when all I did was be honest, truthful, and a good friend to a young woman who had nobody to spend her birthday with?

@CallMeCleo

From the day she moved out last August, until June 8th, I did not contact her in any way.

How can you possibly label that as "very, very, intense"?

Well when you're sat there googling times and distances, Facebook stalking random people for a picture of a child and texting/calling to look at the people she supposedly had round - yes that is very very intense and frankly, bloody weird. You either accept her as she is or ditch her - it's it's unhealthy friendship. Period.

I don't think you are intense in this.
I am pretty logical and I'd want to have evidence before I accused someone of being a liar so I knew in my my own mine I was correct.
Checking Facebook takes a few minutes as does checking a journey planner.

I may not Skype them for proof but I'd definitely be looking at their social media to see whether it showed these visitors.

I mean why not just say your sick if you don't want to see you on the day. Flu like symptoms etc. That's what a normal person would do.

@FairyDusting

"If a woman came on here saying her ex had previously cheated and she had trust issues and was asking her DP to send her photos of where he was and who he was with to prove he was telling the truth..."

That is NOT what happened? Why are you deliberately twisting my account of what happened in order to throw the blame for this on me?

I've already explained that at NO TIME did I tell her that I was demanding proof that she wasn't lying. I have explained in great detail that she is a person who is glued to her phone and always takes loads of pictures of every event. Therefore WHEN I suspected she was lying, it was easy for me to say in a CASUAL, breezy, friendly and cheerful tone "Oh, do send me a group pic when your friends turn up!" and she replied in an equally lighthearted, happy, cheerful manner that she definitely would.

This is a NORMAL convo between friends. You seem hell bent on pathologising this. Are you saying that every time someone says in a friendly fashion, "Oh, do send me a photo" that they are a deranged stalker?

I'm really upset about discovering that my friend has lied to me, and you seem to be on a mission to try to hurt and upset me even more.

I HAVE DONE NOTHING WRONG!

You don't sound weird at all! Don't know what pp are on about!

She lied to you before, breaking your trust and it was a big deal to you. So you've trusted her again, but then there comes a suspicious situation so you delved a bit. Of course you did, because you didn't expect your trust to be broken again and you're clearly hurt so you need to know more of the facts. I'd do exactly the same. I'd also call her out on the lie, straight out tell her you know she lied.