Close friend lied again - WWYD?

[CallMeCleo]

I have very few friends so value (and try hard to keep) the ones I have.

Last year a close friend told me a massive lie, for no reason. When I found out and I ended the friendship. Months later she contacted me to apologise, and I took her back because I love her company and had missed her.

We'd only met up twice since our reunion, when, a month before her birthday, I invited her to my house for that day, and she eagerly accepted. I said I'd buy all her favourite foods and we'd spend the day doing all the things she loves. I spent hours searching for a fairly pricey gift and a bespoke card, and had both personalised with her (unusual) name printed on them, some "happy birthday" bunting and balloons, and a cake.

An hour before she was due here she Skyped me to cancel. A group of women she worked with years ago, hundreds of miles away, had just informed her they were already en route to celebrate her birthday with her. They had not told her until the actual day as they "wanted it to be a surprise". The drive would take 3 or 4 hours each way.

Given her history of lying and the unlikeliness of the scenario I was sceptical but on balance reckoned that she would not risk losing me again this time forever by telling me such a massive lie. She's one of those people that is glued to her iPhone 24/7 and she promised to send me photos of the group --- but did not. I messaged her at 5pm reminding her about the photos, but she sent none - and still hasn't. At 6pm I Skyped her. With her was a small boy whom she claimed was the son of one of the "bunch of friends" who were "in another room". I asked her to let me see them on video but she made excuses and rang off.

I became suspicious and searched her FB friends. The boy was in fact the son of a friend of hers who lives very near her, whom she could see literally any day.

The story about the "group of friends" driving hundreds of miles was another big, fat, barefaced lie.

I would have had no problem changing the day she came here. It's her birthday, not mine, so I don't care what day she visits. I have no problem with her spending her birthday with the boy's mum and seeing me another day.

What bothers me most is that again she has looked me in the eye and told me a huge, blatant lie. She is shameless, too: no shiftiness, no mumbling, no avoiding eye contact; she's forthright and emphatic, and gives lots of (made up) detail. There was no reason to invent such a detailed, convolted lie; she could have simply said she was having a bad period, or had gone down with a cold, and was spending her birthday in bed.

Apart from the lying she is a perfect match for me as a friend. We have such a great time together, love the same activities and make each other laugh so much. I'm so gutted to discover that she clearly doesn't fear losing me.

I have not yet told her that I know.

I just don't know what to do.

I've asked someone who knows us both and she said, "Pretend that you don't know she lied, in order to preserve the friendship. Have her round on Saturday, give her a great birthday, and act as though nothing happened." But I find it impossible to be two-faced. To spend all that time with her, at close quarters, and to stay silent about what I know makes me a liar, too. And if I stay friends with her I will literally not believe a single thing she ever tells me.

Should I tell her I know she lied? If so, do I ask for an explanation and an apology, clear the air and carry on being friends? Or do I tell her I know, that she is a filthy lying cow, and that we are no longer friends?

Wonder why OPs reply to the abusive ones so much and not the ones that offer support? You have the majority of people agreeing with you (including me) so if others dont then why get upset?

I think you were right to check out her story. Stalking? Err...no, I dont think checking where a random kid is from is stalking Another misuse of a word that is a serious thing when done to you.

If you dont mind losing her "friendship" then ask her why she lied. No point in leaving it as she will just do it again.

It's hard when u get on so well etc. I'd be inclined to let her know she told a lie and if she is going to continue telling lies u don't want to be friends with her. One last chance! Also tell her if she's going to lie to at least make it believable!

I also in future wouldn't make so much of an effort for her birthday etc. I would be very pissed off with her.

I'd probably invite her round but ask lots of questions about her friends and about her day, really watch her digging herself a hole.
I'd then mention at the end of the day/evening that it's strange how the boy you saw her with is identical to her neighbours ds who you happen to know through a friend.

Honestly, I would just end this friendship. She is clearly unhinged. You'll never know what is a lie, and what is the truth. Things could go horribly wrong. What if she comes to you in a month and tells you that your Partner came on to her? That kind of thing.

I think from things you've written, you're about the same age as me. Too old for all this drama. You need harder boundaries in place.

I have dropped 2 close friends, and a sibling for similar behaviour.

Friend 1 was a raging alcoholic, who was starting to drink during the day, and I had to rescue her from multiple unsafe situations. She would drink drive and turn up at my house half dressed, vodka bottle in hand. I helped her for 8 years. Then one day, when her DH was pleading with her to hand over their child, I backed him up and she accused us of having an affair! That was the last straw.

Friend 2 was sleeping with multiple men, some married and then slept with my then H. That was a 5 year friendship down the pan.

Sibling had been bullying me for decades. Of course at times she was very nice (that's what keeps you from walking away), so yes, we had some great times, but, there were very dark and nasty times if she was mentally in a dark place. Up to 30 messages a day etc. She also ruined most family get togethers, by having a melt down at some perceived wrong doing (always fabricated). Se has also accused me of doing things, that are complete lies.

Look at how this friendship is affecting you now. You are upset, and rightly so. You would be better off without this woman. Chalk it up to experience, spend time with people your own age, who are more grown up and don't have any drama going on.

Not sure why you are getting a hard time here @CallMeCleo. I think the situation is quite clear.

My opinion, for what it's worth:

1. Personally I would have been upset that your friend didn't just say to these mythical friends "Sorry, you will have to turn around, I already have plans today for my birthday". So even if the friends had been real I think she behaved appallingly by cancelling you at the last minute.

2. As others have said and you are beginning to realise, your friend probably lies even more than you realise. Losing a friend is hard and one who makes you cry with laughter, even harder. However, my advice would be to cut her off. The friendship you thought you had doesn't really exist. Yes she's fun but I would say that that fun is now extremely tarnished and the damage she could do is a lot more powerful. She sounds somewhat unhinged.

Let yourself mourn the friendship and move on .

Dump her, there is no friendship when one party thinks insulting the others intelligence with blatant lies is okay.

You sound like a lovely friend & anyone should be proud to have you as a friend & respect you enough to tell the truth. Walk away, it's the only way really as you'll never trust a word that comes out of her mouth again

I had a friend like this, the lies didn't stop, they just got worse & in fact she was a manipulative lying thieving narcissistic cow & having had her mum befriend me on Facebook, I realised just how deep & awful some of her lies were. She also used details of my health issues to scam benefits & get her & her daughters diagnosed too. & for her kids sake, I regret everyday not reporting her to the police & SS for some very bizarre & inappropriate behaviour towards my DD.

Walk away, you deserve better & people who lie that easily do it all of the time. My brother is also one of those types & his lies are very insidious & as the years have gone on, designed solely to cause family grief for me. Including telling my DF that my DD had cancer & I was lying to DF about it. They don't change, only get worse. Run

Being lied to by a friend is deeply hurtful. This person is clearly a compulsive liar and if you remain friendly with her the problem will return again and again. I have a ‘friend’ very like this with whom I have gone pretty much non contact after years of being lied to. I despise myself for having put up with it for so long but like you, I enjoyed her company and she could be wonderfully entertaining and supportive in her own way. I was also worried about the impact on her of making her face up to her behaviour as compulsive lying can be a sign of more serious psychological issues. Other people could see the red flags before I did and faded away, but I thought I could handle it. I would just phase out the relationship by not being available, but if she asked me directly what the problem was, I would be honest with her. The important thing to remember is that it is unlikely she will ever change unless something happens to make her face up to her issues and get help.

I would tell her you know she's been lying but ask her why. Her nearby friend might have had an accident and she's been left with the child but she knows how intense you get so she may have thought it was better to tell you something you knew she couldn't get out of. I might be talking rubbish but there must be a good reason for her to get out of such a lovely day for a lie. Talk to her

You could just be honest - tell her that you were very hurt that she cancelled and do not believe her story. Tell her that her behaviour has been very upsetting to you. No need to pretend you don’t know, or to call her a lying cow and ramp up drama.

I think you've been treated harshly on here. I'd have done the same as you did, bar the Skype at 6pm as really she would have still been enjoying her day and I would have felt intrusive. But id never video call anyone without prior arrangement and hate when people do it to me.

I think you need to see this friendship as a good time thing. Go for drinks and have her round for wine evenings when you fancy a laugh but that's it. I personally wouldnt raise the lie. You know she lied, an apology won't make it any better as you know it's an empty apology because this has happened before.

Fair weather friends are fine, just don't get attached and no more spending money and time on gifts and balloons etc

I get it, OP. You don't just accuse someone you consider a good friend of lying without adequate proof. However, now you have your proof, I'd just let the friendship fade out TBH. I couldn't accept being lied to as a trade-off of enjoying someone's company and I don't get the impression you could, either. As a PP said, it's a complete insult to one's intelligence.

But the nature of the lie aside - I also think it's outrageous of this person to have clearly hinted that she wanted you to arrange a birthday party for her, then cancel on the day for anything barring a complete emergency.

Go for drinks and have her round for wine evenings when you fancy a laugh but that's it

Except it won't be so much of a laugh, if she ever lies about Op's partner making a pass at her. She's been diagnosed as having an attention seeking disorder, so nothing will be off limits.

I would tell her you know she lied and dump her. Can’t stand liars, I’d rather a thief than a liar. At least you know where you are with a thief!

Unless you've had dealings with a liar, it's hard to understand how angry and upset they make you feel.

Liars do think you're stupid and invent such shit.

Absolutely get rid of her as a friend. No need to tell her you know she's a liar, she'll just tell you more lies and make you feel worse.

Bin the present, eat the cake and block her.

You sound a lovely person, and don't need a Shit friend like that in your life!

@30degreesandmeltinghere - OMG what a brilliant suggestion! Sadly I don't have a car so I can't run with it but thanks anyway.

@Inaseagull -- Thanks for understanding why I did what I did and for your "vote" to ditch her.

@Bagamoyo1-- Thank you.

@MamaD1990 -- You are totally confused. I never said I was close friends with the woman whose child it was.I have never met her or her child but my (fibbing) friend told me all about her because she babysits for her. It's not hard to search her friends list. There are about 10 people on it of which half are women who employ her to look after their kids. Two others are her brother and sister in law, both of whom went no contact with her a year ago. The rest are workmates/schoolmates/acquaintances from her previous town years ago. The (possibly imaginary) boyfriend isn't there, BTW.

@GrumpyTerrier -- Thank you so much for your very kind and intelligent reply and list of options. My gut (or heart) wants to stay friends (even if casual/superficial) because I really enjoy being with her. Her raucous extrovert character brings out a young, playful, witty and funloving side of me that rarely gets a chance to come out, because my life revolves around running a business singlehandedly. My other friends are academic/serious/quiet/intorverted types. I don't have anyone else in my life like her.

But my head says dump her because she's lied again despite the severe consequences that ensued when she lied last time. And because she clearly does not value my friendship, or she would not have risked lying again especially as we've only met up twice since re-establishing contact. And she does not value or respect that I took a day off from my business, and went to trouble and expense to get her a special, unique present.

@Onelifeonly -- thank you for your caring and sensible reply and for sharing your own experiences. You and me are definitely on the same page because I also consider her two known lies "outrageous". If I do continue the friendship but on a very casual level I will just enjoy the laughs and banter, but not believe a single thing she ever tells me, and never bother checking up because I'll assume she's always lying.

@EarringsandLipstick -- you have been told to go away and yet here you are, still attacking. You accuse me of "stalking" when all I was going was checking out a possible lie, and yet here you are, stalking me after being told to leave me alone.

@Topblogger that's not true. I have responded and thanked everyone who has posted a non-abusive reply. And here I am, still doing so even as you accuse me of not doing so! I get upset at being mis-quoted, at having my words twisted, and as being falsely painted as a nasty, stalking, creepy villain wouldn't you? Thanks for confirming that it's not "stalking" to check a friend's tale and thanks for your suggestion of simply asking why she lied.

@Iduno and @Spied -- many thanks for your opinions and suggestions.

@Bluedeblue -- thanks for your input and for sharing your experiences of similar. I'm early 60s, she's early 40s.

@Chamomileteaplease thank you also for your careful and intelligent reply and suggestions. I did think how stupid AND thoughtless the friends were to phone her at noon on her birthday to announce they were en route. Stupid because she almost certainly would have already made plans she could even have been out of town spending it with her boyfriend (if he exists). And I thought they were thoughtless in springing themselves on her at the last minute.I definitely did not mind her cancelling with me for her (mythical) friends because it makes no odds to me which day we celebrated her birthday. The food and cake would keep, and Saturday (tomorrow) suits me far better, anyway.

@Singingintheshithouse -- thank you for your reply and for sharing your own experience. You are right she insulted my intelligence. She must have known that I could easily look at her Facebook and see who the little boy really is!

@NessieMcNessface -- thank you for responding and for your very wise post. I had not considered that telling her I know could cause psychological issues in her so thank you for pointing that out. Yes, she is wonderfully entertaining and also very supportive, most especially when I was ill once, she looked after me like a mother to her child, held my hand and made me feel safe. She is wonderful with children hence being a beloved nanny and excellent babysitter.

@Looneytune253 -- thank your for your reply and suggestions. I do not "get intense". She knows she could have told me her friend/employer had had an accident and that her first priority was to look after the child until someone (probably the husband) took over. But she could still have come over to mine later. By the way, she did not "get out of" her visit here for her birthday, she asked me if we could move it to Saturday, to which I readily agreed and told her that Saturday suits me better, anyway (which she knew because she knows I run my own business on weekdays). In fact she could have suggested right from the start that we celebrate her birthday at the weekend and not on the actual date (Tuesday) because not only would it suit me better but the one mutual friend we have will be here on Saturday. She literally has no reason whatsoever to lie to me. I think her local friend had not made any arrangement to see her on her birthday until the actual day, then my friend blew me out last minute to spend it with her and her two little sons, whom she sees very frequently.

@Elisandra -- thank you for your reply and suggestion. It's definitely a viable and sensible option.

@Copperpotsalot -- thank you for your reply. When we had her birthday party here last year she not only received and accepted Skype calls during the party but she also made a couple as well. So she is definitely not averse to having extra input from others during the celebrations. Come to think of it, she has since fallen out with all those people who skyped her that day including her mother and brother. Video calls are her preferred method of contact with everyone, all the time. I can't remember the last time she phoned without video and she never texts or emails. Thanks for your suggestion. I think it's the only way, other than dumping her altogether.

@FetchezLaVache -- thank you also for your reply. "It's outrageous of this person to have clearly hinted that she wanted you to arrange a birthday party for her, then cancel on the day for anything barring a complete emergency." Very succinctly put. I agree. In fact it makes her a CF, doesn't it?

PHEW... I hope I didn't miss anyone. I would hate anyone to think I'd not acknowledged their input.

Sorry I got very upset and cross but being falsely blamed and called unfair names really does wind me up. I'd say it's my pet hate.

@hoxt

It’s not that how often you contact her is intense, it’s the intensity of your feelings around the whole relationship. It does sound pretty unhealthy so I’d try to move on.

Agree with this

OP I wouldn't bother defending yourself. Unless you've had dealings with a pathological liar, it's hard to explain how it fucks with your head!

How someone you know and respect can tell you absolute shit and expect you to believe them. You do believe them first l, because why would they lie. But then you have to check!

It's horrible and completely messes with your head!

So ignore the PPs who have been fortunate enough not to deal with such liars and just extract yourself from the friendship.

I'm sorry I would ditch her.

Any time anything else comes up you would think she was lying.

I think especially after what happened before she would realise that she could tell you the simple truth.

It sounds like she doesnt value your company but also she lies regularly.

@Nicolastuffedone and @HeavenHotel -- thank you both for your input.

I hope I have caught up with all replies now. I didn't expect quite this many.

Well this is a strange thread .

OP look at your boundaries can you live with people not being truthful, but then use them for light entertainment only? Then do it.

If you value truth and trust and invest in friendships, let it go. You will loose way too much headspace over this and you already have.

Don't make it into a drama, don't comment, don't send gift, eat the food and put it away.

Unfortunately for you, she sidelined you. It's incredibly painful to be a second choice/plan B..but she seems to have been trying to spare your feelings by 'lying' to you.

It seems to me that her making up an elaborate story, was easier than facing up to you with a "sorry, Tracy from next doors popped in and I know if I cancel you now, you'll be mega pissed off at me" ...?

Yes, lying is lying and is painful. But sadly these liars don't count on being caught out.

IMO your 'need' of her sounds very intense and smothering. You sound like a nice friend, caring and kind...but phoning her and insisting on showing the [fictional] group of people was a bit crazy IMO and if I had a friend that was being that clingy/full on, I would be thinking WTF too.

Personally, you can't let on you know anything, as you'll make yourself sound like a mad woman having browsed facebook/worked out journey times etc.

I think you just need to message and explain you were disappointed you didn't see her that day, as you'd been looking forward to it and hope you can meet up soon.

In the meantime, stop being so generous and giving so much of yourself to others....a birthday pressie is nice, but decorations cake etc is OTT in my opinion. The reason you're so annoyed, is because you put a lot of time and effort into the plans and she dropped you like a hot-cake...so the answer is: stop putting in so much time and effort.

Friendships [or any relationship] only work if they go both ways - give and take...and sounds to me like she enjoyed taking taking, but has freaked out when you've become a bit possessive.

She’s not a true friend and obviously has problems with lying. Most people I know that have these issues never change and it’s a compulsion with them.

Friend true friends and bin her, she’s not worth it…

I wouldn't be as upset by the "lie" as much as she asked you to do her a special birthday and then cancelled. Her lie was shit and for me that still wouldn't be a good enough reason to cancel all the work she'd asked you to do. It shows a complete lack of respect for your friendship.

If you really enjoy her company then could you just meet up periodically for coffee or whatever, have a laugh (maybe play some internal spot the lie) and keep her at arms length. Definitely don't be drawn into a power play where she seems to need you to demonstrate your commitment via birthday parties etc.

I would focus on your real friends and bin this one off.

OP there are people on MN who have nothing better to do than goad people. Just ignore them.

You should have finished the relationship when she told you the lies about her grandmother. You sound very lonely and it's making you vulnerable to bad behaviour from others.

Of course you have every right to be upset. You gave her plenty of time (a month), you spent time arranging food she likes, found a nice present and then she lied and let you down at the last minute. It would have been enough that she cancelled, you didn't need to check up on the rest.

I do agree that you are investing an awful amount into this relationship. Are you the same with other friends? You sound very kind and thoughtful, your plans sound lovely but be careful people don't take advantage of your generosity. She is not worth your friendship OP, just drop her without explanation. She doesn't care about you.