Close friend lied again - WWYD?

[CallMeCleo]

I have very few friends so value (and try hard to keep) the ones I have.

Last year a close friend told me a massive lie, for no reason. When I found out and I ended the friendship. Months later she contacted me to apologise, and I took her back because I love her company and had missed her.

We'd only met up twice since our reunion, when, a month before her birthday, I invited her to my house for that day, and she eagerly accepted. I said I'd buy all her favourite foods and we'd spend the day doing all the things she loves. I spent hours searching for a fairly pricey gift and a bespoke card, and had both personalised with her (unusual) name printed on them, some "happy birthday" bunting and balloons, and a cake.

An hour before she was due here she Skyped me to cancel. A group of women she worked with years ago, hundreds of miles away, had just informed her they were already en route to celebrate her birthday with her. They had not told her until the actual day as they "wanted it to be a surprise". The drive would take 3 or 4 hours each way.

Given her history of lying and the unlikeliness of the scenario I was sceptical but on balance reckoned that she would not risk losing me again this time forever by telling me such a massive lie. She's one of those people that is glued to her iPhone 24/7 and she promised to send me photos of the group --- but did not. I messaged her at 5pm reminding her about the photos, but she sent none - and still hasn't. At 6pm I Skyped her. With her was a small boy whom she claimed was the son of one of the "bunch of friends" who were "in another room". I asked her to let me see them on video but she made excuses and rang off.

I became suspicious and searched her FB friends. The boy was in fact the son of a friend of hers who lives very near her, whom she could see literally any day.

The story about the "group of friends" driving hundreds of miles was another big, fat, barefaced lie.

I would have had no problem changing the day she came here. It's her birthday, not mine, so I don't care what day she visits. I have no problem with her spending her birthday with the boy's mum and seeing me another day.

What bothers me most is that again she has looked me in the eye and told me a huge, blatant lie. She is shameless, too: no shiftiness, no mumbling, no avoiding eye contact; she's forthright and emphatic, and gives lots of (made up) detail. There was no reason to invent such a detailed, convolted lie; she could have simply said she was having a bad period, or had gone down with a cold, and was spending her birthday in bed.

Apart from the lying she is a perfect match for me as a friend. We have such a great time together, love the same activities and make each other laugh so much. I'm so gutted to discover that she clearly doesn't fear losing me.

I have not yet told her that I know.

I just don't know what to do.

I've asked someone who knows us both and she said, "Pretend that you don't know she lied, in order to preserve the friendship. Have her round on Saturday, give her a great birthday, and act as though nothing happened." But I find it impossible to be two-faced. To spend all that time with her, at close quarters, and to stay silent about what I know makes me a liar, too. And if I stay friends with her I will literally not believe a single thing she ever tells me.

Should I tell her I know she lied? If so, do I ask for an explanation and an apology, clear the air and carry on being friends? Or do I tell her I know, that she is a filthy lying cow, and that we are no longer friends?

Whole scenario sounds weird- including you asking her for photos of her with other friends, although I’d also have been very pissed off at the cancellation. Don’t invite her again, as the lie suggests she didn’t want to come- don’t mention her bday again in fact- and maybe try to adjust your expectations of the friendship so it feels less intense.

Hire a float and a group of Brazilian carnival dancers and drive it round to her house. Then when she hears the kettle drums and comes outside to samba, smile and hand her a balloon that says ‘You dead to me, bitch’.

Then drive off just as the plane you spent hours researching on the internet skywrites ‘girlfriend you a lying ho!’.

You searched for, and found evidence of your friend being disloyal. Now you don't know what to do with that evidence.
You could confront your friend but nothing she says would make it better. You won't get an answer that satisfies you.
You could ignore the lies but you would always be on alert for more deception. A self fulfilling prophecy.
Or you could send a text saying the relationship is over and you won't be in contact again. Dignified and leaving you sadder but wiser.
The trust is gone. A clean break heals best.

@fallfallfall

You seem very intense and over invested in this friendship. A bit weird to go to such elaborate prep for a friends birthday…then Skyping and wanting proof…even stalking FB for photos and details. It doesn’t sound healthy at all, please bin each other.

This. Honestly, OP, I think your behaviour here is pretty much as odd as hers. You sound way over invested in the friendship, with the elaborate birthday prep, heightened emotions, the language you use about it (you ‘took her back’ after the first lie, like a cheating boyfriend?), the repeated requests for her to provide you with video or photo proof her other friends were really there and subsequent online stalking.

You sound like a friendship bunny boiler. I would step back, consider whether my over the top attitude had contributed to the lies, and rethink my ideas about friendship.

Ditch her. Real friends don’t fabricate blatant lies all the time.

Your response is too much, it seems very intense. Maybe she feels she can’t tell you things so feels she has to lie. I’m not saying it’s right to lie but if you have such high standards that she falls short of maybe she goes into self preservation. Also your too invested in this friendship. Just shrug and move on be friends if you like her friendship. It doesn’t have to be anything more.

Give the present to charity people will buy anything.

Also you seem a bit weird about the friendship, saying you took her back and it's the perfect match. Were you hoping it to develop into more than friends?

Regardless I'd ditch and forget her.

I worked with someone like her once. It's awful. Send her the card and present, tell her you know she lied, and dump her.

Your behaviour and words seem intense, OTT. The ‘reunion’, making huge efforts for a birthday hosted at yours, ‘perfectly matched’ etc.

She shouldn’t have lied, of course.

*I messaged her at 5pm reminding her about the photos, but she sent none - and still hasn't. At 6pm I Skyped her. With her was a small boy whom she claimed was the son of one of the "bunch of friends" who were "in another room". I asked her to let me see them on video but she made excuses and rang off.

I became suspicious and searched her FB friends. The boy was in fact the son of a friend of hers who lives very near her, whom she could see literally any day.*

This level of intensity would scare me, so you saw a boy in her house and you searched through her friend's fb pics to find this child!? Then searched further to find where he lived?
Tell her you've done this and l don't think you'll be the one ending the friendship. Too too intense!

I wouldn't go to the extent of looking through Facebook and demanding pictures of her friends/videos in order to prove she was lying. This is very unhealthy. You should not be that over invested in someone. The only person you need to invest in is yourself. If you keep doing this, people will take advantage of you as it screams desperate to have friends.

Let the friendship go. She keeps on lying. Let your actions speak for yourself. When she suggests something next time, say "I'll have a think and get back to you".

If this was someone posting that their partner was texting and calling them demanding to see pictures of the people they were with they’d be told they were in an abusive relationship and to get rid.

Your friend is in an abusive friendship and you are the abusive one.

I suspect she lied because she is afraid of your reactions to daring to have other friends.

Honestly she is the one who is well rid.

End the friendship, it's going nowhere and it should not be this hard. You need trust. I think you should reflect on what is causing her to lie though. I would shy away from a friend who was so invested. Good luck OP, I hope you can sort this out without being hurt.

@JarJarQ your response had me chortling away

I think you’re pretty intense and she’s prone to dishonesty. I wouldn’t confront her but I’d just let it fizzle out naturally.

She shouldn't have lied
But you shouldn't be stalking her Facebook and demanding group pictures

Her lies are very elaborate...this is true 🤷‍♀️

But Christ alive...you sound intense! Chill the fuck out man 🤦‍♀️

@bevelino

OP, it is not a healthy friendship and maybe you need to let it fizzle out and build a broader base of friends if you can.

This.

It is too much drama. Just don't contact her, if she contacts you be vague butbusy, just move on. You don't need drama.

I had a friend who was (and still is) a pathological liar - my belief is that these people actually believe their own lies. It’s as though they think if they say the lie often enough it become the truth.

One of the reasons I am no longer friends with the person is I couldn’t stand the barefaced lying. I’d get rid OP.

What was the lie that caused you to split up the first time?

OP, this is horrible (on your part). You put her under immense pressure with all your stalking and demands for “proof” of what she was doing. I imagine you totally ruined her birthday, making her deal with your demands for proof of what she was doing, the bonkers Skype call etc.

And why on Earth did you do all that for her birthday? Invite her over and make it nice, fine. But bunting? Just for you and her? “Her favourite foods”? How do you even know what her favourite foods are? I couldn’t say this with accuracy for any of my friends….. And personalising the gift and card with her “unusual” name - what’s it all about OP?

And you call her a “filthy lying cow”. Jesus that’s some strong misogynistic language to use for a friend, there….

The whole thing is weird. You sound a bit much OP. Waiting for her to send you photographic proof that they were there and when she didn’t you Skyped her to see? Googling the exact distance? This is the exact type of thing my ex used to do to me. He would make me send him pics of where I was and if I said I’d be 1.5 hours he’d reply ‘why google maps said it’s 50 mins’, I hated telling him the truth about things because of how he would react. Maybe she felt like she had to lie to you?

You also said you ‘took her back’ which is what someone would say about an ex and not a friend. It sounds very intense.

@Mummyoflittledragon

It’s very difficult to give a balanced view here. You appear very heavily invested in your friends and treat them how you wish and / or think you deserve to be treated… without appreciating that they may not have the same outlook or view.

Perhaps your friend really loves your friendship and can fully engage in it in the way you want when she feels at the top of her game as if not, she finds you claustrophobic. Or maybe she is a user as some on this thread seem to think.

One thing, which cannot be denied it that those, who are emotionally stable and aware of their behaviour are not consummate liars. And then again people, who are emotionally stable also appreciate that their friends may have a different outlook on life to them.

If I were to take a stab at this, you sound very exacting and exhausting and she thinks she cannot live up to your expectations and backs away leaving both of you hurt. Why else would she choose to spend time with someone, who she can see every day? I would think that person gets her and being with her is her safe space.

Both of you are going need to get out of your comfort zones for this friendship to work and find a workable compromise as it all sounds very intense for both of you. If neither of you can change a little then there is no going forward.

I agree with this.

I find it interesting that you see her excuses for cancelling as a big massive lie and a sackable offence. It makes me wonder about the original lie that made you cut contact previously.

That is very black and white thinking. There is no room for the messiness of being imperfectly human.

Her lie was rude and unnecessary. I wonder what would come of a conversation that started from "why did you feel the need to lie?" Not "you lied. We are done".

You might still decide to end the friendship but at least you have a deeper understanding of the situation.

Thanks for all the responses.

I'm bewildered by comments that I am "too much", "too intense", "too invested" and "like a jealous partner". Nothing could be further from the truth.

I did not want to explain every single detail about our friendship or the OP would have been a mile long, so I just gave the salient details. However, people seem to have filled in the gaps with things that are wildly wrong.

This friend lived in my house for a while last year. I hardly saw her as she was working long hours as a children's nanny and often stayed there overnight. She had no local friends or relations, and no boyfriend. One day she said she longed for a traditional birthday party with balloons and cake and games. I gave her exactly that, with my boyfriend and another female friend joining us, and she loved it and took loads of pics and posted them on FB.

After she told the massive, pointless lie just weeks later, I ended the friendship and told her to move out. She left in August. SInce then I have never once contacted her. She rang me in January, apologising profusely and asking if I could forgive her and be friends again. I think everyone deserves a second chance so I said OK.

For the last six months all contact has been driven by her. She Skypes me about once a week and she is full-on, chatty and a big personality, so that is plenty enough contact for me. I never contact her. I have seen her only twice this year. Both times she rang, asked to visit and stayed a couple of hours.

In May she reminded me about her birthday and said how much she'd loved the little party I gave her last year. She was blatantly hinting so
I invited her. She was absolutely thrilled to bits. Since then, every time she Skyped she mentioned her forthcoming visit and party with great enthusiasm.

She is a big personality: extroverted, talkative, excitable and fun-loving whilst I am 20 years older and lead a quiet, serious life focussed on my business. When I am with her she brings out a different side of me, a breezy, outgoing, witty persona; we banter and joke the whole time, and laugh literally till tears are running down our cheeks.

The only reason I asked her to send me photos of her friends was because her tale of a group of her ex-colleagues she has not seen for years taking a day off work and driving a 500-mile round trip with toddlers on board just to see her for a couple of hours sounded implausible. I did not angrily demand "proof". I breezily, cheerfully said, "Oh you must take a pic when they arrive and send it to me!" in an interested, "joining-in-with-the-fun" tone of voice. When no pic arrived, and nothing appeared on her Facebook, my suspicion that it was all a lie was strengthened and prompted me to initiate contact with her for the first time in a year, to remind her (again, breezily and in an excited, friendly tone) to send a pic. When she didn't I was 80% sure she was lying.

To get final, incontrovertible proof I quickly hopped onto her (very short) FB friends list and within 30 seconds I saw a photo of the boy she was with and had lied about. I was merely getting proof to satisfy myself that she most definitely was lying. I don't think this deserves the derogatory label of creepy stalker that has been placed on me by some posters. I am sure any of you would have done the same.

Since then I have had no contact with her. She has Skyped me three times but I have not answered because I need to decide what to do before speaking to her.

I don't want to be overly punitive, and enjoy her bubbly, chatty company, but then again I don't want to be treated as a mug, which is why I am struggling to decide whether to end the friendship or pretend I don't know that she lied.

All I wanted to know in my OP was WWYD? Would you forgive her for lying again or would this be the final straw for you? I'm taken aback at being blamed and labelled a bad person.

Do you see a power issue in the relationship? I found reckoned that she would not risk losing me again -- this time forever to be a bit self important.