Close friend lied again - WWYD?

[CallMeCleo]

I have very few friends so value (and try hard to keep) the ones I have.

Last year a close friend told me a massive lie, for no reason. When I found out and I ended the friendship. Months later she contacted me to apologise, and I took her back because I love her company and had missed her.

We'd only met up twice since our reunion, when, a month before her birthday, I invited her to my house for that day, and she eagerly accepted. I said I'd buy all her favourite foods and we'd spend the day doing all the things she loves. I spent hours searching for a fairly pricey gift and a bespoke card, and had both personalised with her (unusual) name printed on them, some "happy birthday" bunting and balloons, and a cake.

An hour before she was due here she Skyped me to cancel. A group of women she worked with years ago, hundreds of miles away, had just informed her they were already en route to celebrate her birthday with her. They had not told her until the actual day as they "wanted it to be a surprise". The drive would take 3 or 4 hours each way.

Given her history of lying and the unlikeliness of the scenario I was sceptical but on balance reckoned that she would not risk losing me again this time forever by telling me such a massive lie. She's one of those people that is glued to her iPhone 24/7 and she promised to send me photos of the group --- but did not. I messaged her at 5pm reminding her about the photos, but she sent none - and still hasn't. At 6pm I Skyped her. With her was a small boy whom she claimed was the son of one of the "bunch of friends" who were "in another room". I asked her to let me see them on video but she made excuses and rang off.

I became suspicious and searched her FB friends. The boy was in fact the son of a friend of hers who lives very near her, whom she could see literally any day.

The story about the "group of friends" driving hundreds of miles was another big, fat, barefaced lie.

I would have had no problem changing the day she came here. It's her birthday, not mine, so I don't care what day she visits. I have no problem with her spending her birthday with the boy's mum and seeing me another day.

What bothers me most is that again she has looked me in the eye and told me a huge, blatant lie. She is shameless, too: no shiftiness, no mumbling, no avoiding eye contact; she's forthright and emphatic, and gives lots of (made up) detail. There was no reason to invent such a detailed, convolted lie; she could have simply said she was having a bad period, or had gone down with a cold, and was spending her birthday in bed.

Apart from the lying she is a perfect match for me as a friend. We have such a great time together, love the same activities and make each other laugh so much. I'm so gutted to discover that she clearly doesn't fear losing me.

I have not yet told her that I know.

I just don't know what to do.

I've asked someone who knows us both and she said, "Pretend that you don't know she lied, in order to preserve the friendship. Have her round on Saturday, give her a great birthday, and act as though nothing happened." But I find it impossible to be two-faced. To spend all that time with her, at close quarters, and to stay silent about what I know makes me a liar, too. And if I stay friends with her I will literally not believe a single thing she ever tells me.

Should I tell her I know she lied? If so, do I ask for an explanation and an apology, clear the air and carry on being friends? Or do I tell her I know, that she is a filthy lying cow, and that we are no longer friends?

I don't think other people can tell you what to do. It depends how you feel about the friend and the friendship. I don't think I'd carry on being friends with her.

It does sound like you went to a lot of effort for her birthday, for someone you had fallen out with not long before, but I can understand why you'd want to find out if she was lying again.

I had a friend who used to make things up like that and I couldn't see any reason for it. Maybe it was just for attention. She did it when we were at school but we were teenagers then so I was surprised when we became friends again years later and she was still doing it. It got to a point where I expected her to lie and it was often around plans we had made to meet. The strange thing was she was often the one to suggest doing something and seemed very keen but then would make up a reason why she couldn't come such as being ill or a relative being in hospital.

The last time she did it I was quite direct with her about lying to me and wasting my time and I don't think we spoke after that.

The fact that you are checking her Facebook etc means you don't trust her and maybe you never will unless she somehow shows you that she's doing something about the lying.

@Bluedeblue "I thought you said she was a child minder? Or is she a benefit cheat on top of everything else?"

When she lived in my house she was rarely here because she was a nanny for a family with four kids 5 miles away and often stayed overnight at theirs. They no longer have any contact with her. When she left me she moved in with a family and looked after their kids. Then she moved out, went on the dole and got a bedsit. Then she got a job, but was sacked after a month and is back on the dole again, doing casual babysitting (I think you are allowed to work 16 hours a week on the dole?)

I used to have a friend whose company I enjoyed but she was very unreliable. She was often late or did not show up. It was not malicious - just that she was badly organized. I learned to accept her for how she was and not to rely on her. When she did put in an appearance I was happy but I always had a plan B for if she let me down.

I think you have too much invested in this friendship. I know its difficult if you are a sincere and truthful person who is always there for your friends. However we have to accept them for what they are - sometimes with feet of clay. We cant make them over into what we want them to be!

More alarm bells!!

To quote you:

When she lived in my house she was rarely here because she was a nanny for a family with four kids 5 miles away and often stayed overnight at theirs. They no longer have any contact with her When she left me she moved in with a family and looked after their kids. Then she moved out , went on the dole and got a bedsit. Then she got a job, but was sacked after a month and is back on the dole again, doing casual babysitting (I think you are allowed to work 16 hours a week on the dole?)

I see a pattern here. There's a reason that she gets dropped by everyone. My alcoholic "friend" that I helped for 8 years, had been dropped by every single person. There is always a reason. I suspect that you will be back on here in a few years time with a new thread about your friend, only this time it will be far more serious.

You can't work 16 hours a week and still claim Job Seekers Allowance. You can earn £5 a week before they reduce your JSA. So if she's told you that, not only is she a benefit cheat, but that's another lie.

@ 30degreesandmeltinghere - OMG what a brilliant suggestion! Sadly I don't have a car so I can't run with it but thanks anyway.

So if you had a car you’d happily lie to her, despite valuing truth yourself.

I think you know she's just gonna hurt you again so why bother with her. You value honesty in a friendship and you're not getting it here. You sound like a really thoughtful friend and life is just too short for all this commotion.

@CallMeCleo

I've reported your posts tagging me, where you tell me to fuck off, call me a troll, and misrepresent everything I said.

Not once did I insult you.

Your posts are a disgrace.

@JarJarQ

Hire a float and a group of Brazilian carnival dancers and drive it round to her house. Then when she hears the kettle drums and comes outside to samba, smile and hand her a balloon that says ‘You dead to me, bitch’.

Then drive off just as the plane you spent hours researching on the internet skywrites ‘girlfriend you a lying ho!’.

This post wins the thread!

Anyone got a number for the dancers?

@Elisandra

@ 30degreesandmeltinghere - OMG what a brilliant suggestion! Sadly I don't have a car so I can't run with it but thanks anyway.

So if you had a car you’d happily lie to her, despite valuing truth yourself.

Of course not. That post was clearly a JOKE (remember them?) and I went along with it. Get a grip.

@Bluedeblue

I've probably misunderstood something. I know absolutely nothing about the benefits system. Maybe she is not on JSA but some other benefit where she is allowed to earn X or work X hours. Maybe she babysits for free. She adores all children and they all adore her so actually I would not be surprised if she isn't charging.

Then report new member's post and get a strike against her whilst sitting back and smirking.

Not doing anything if the kind.

Your posts gave been deleted so I think it's clear that you did engage in personal attack, and broke guidelines.

There was nothing inadvertent about what you did.

Please don't @ me again. I'm hiding the thread now.

@CallMeCleo I'm really pleased you've found some posters who agree entirely with you - doesn't change my opinion and I'm certainly not confused. She's still a liar, you're still very very intense and it's absolutely still an unhealthy friendship which is better off finished. Good luck!

I said I'd buy all her favourite foods and we'd spend the day doing all the things she loves. I spent hours searching for a fairly pricey gift and a bespoke card, and had both personalised with her (unusual) name printed on them, some "happy birthday" bunting and balloons, and a cake.

Did you tell her all that in advance?

If you did, perhaps she felt cornered/ overwhelmed by an unwelcome intensity?

If she didn;t know you'd gone to such lengths then she's not guilty of ingratitude. From her POV, she backed out of something quite casual.

OP your friend is a twat and you haven't done anything wrong. I would have been so happy if a friend had gone to that amount of trouble for my birthday like you did and there's no way I'd have messed them around. I completely disagree with pps saying things like you stalked her - what absolute rubbish. If I become suspicious someone is lying to me then of course I'm going to check and try to verify that before making a decision as to whether to cut them off. You've been very nice to this person and they've completely taken the piss. I think it's solely a reflection on them not you though. In my experience people who lie never stop so aren't worth your time.

@CallMeCleo, you appear to have confused me with someone else — I have never mentioned an ex, or trauma caused by one, and I have certainly never engaged in ‘mudslinging’ or anything approximating it.

I think your responses to @EarringsandLipstick have been over the top, when all she has done is offer an interpretation of your dynamic with your friend with which you disagree. I broadly agree with the drift of what she says, in that I think you’ve contributed to the odd dynamic between you, and that you’re probably bad for one another now, even though your birthday preparations were well-meant.

What strikes me, though, is that you seem to see the friend as a bad lot rather than vulnerable and deeply unwell, which is what emerges from your updates on her past behaviour, including the imaginary grandmother death.

If, as you say, she spent most time with you when she was homeless, friendless, on the dole and getting divorced, don’t you think that the lie about having a whole bunch of old friends drive hundreds of miles to surprise her on her birthday — that she’s so popular she actually has two clashing birthday parties — is a pathetically obvious attempt to look popular in your eyes, or at least like she’s got someone other than you in her life?

You’ve always been the giver, you have a home, a business, a partner, money etc — she’s probably dealing badly with feeling humiliated by always being the one who needed rescuing. Which is not to excuse her behaviour in the least, but you also said she nursed you through Covid with a smile on her face every day — that’s not nothing, and maybe it helped her to feel that for once she was the giver, or the one with the power?

[quote EarringsandLipstick]@CallMeCleo

I've reported your posts tagging me, where you tell me to fuck off, call me a troll, and misrepresent everything I said.

Not once did I insult you.

Your posts are a disgrace. [/quote]
Well that's not quite true is it. You've actually said quite a few things to insult the OP (odd, creepy, hysterical, stalkerish- and these are just the ones I can remember) which is a shame seeing as you actually had some good points to make. There is a way to describe a situation that doesn't involve using words that are designed to enflame/patronise/hurt an OP. Of course she doesn't want to listen to you when you've chosen to call her creepy and hysterical.

The thing is OP - the friend is challenging your values in the same way my ex-friend challenged mine - I couldn't get past it and I doubt you can either.

I cut my ex-friend off eventually because her increasingly unhinged behaviour and pathological lying outweighed the fun person she was when we first met.

8 years later I occasionally hear about her through mutual acquaintances but I'm never tempted to resurrect the friendship as it became a burden to me.

@2bazookas

I said I'd buy all her favourite foods and we'd spend the day doing all the things she loves. I spent hours searching for a fairly pricey gift and a bespoke card, and had both personalised with her (unusual) name printed on them, some "happy birthday" bunting and balloons, and a cake.

Did you tell her all that in advance?

If you did, perhaps she felt cornered/ overwhelmed by an unwelcome intensity?

If she didn;t know you'd gone to such lengths then she's not guilty of ingratitude. From her POV, she backed out of something quite casual.

The birthday arrangements (present, bunting, balloons lunch, cake, music and games etc) are exactly what we did last year when she was living with me. We actually did it four times: for her birthday, then for mine, and then a month later for another lodger and then for my boyfriend as we all had summer birthdays. She told me she wanted to have the same party again, so, yes, she would be expecting all those things.

I told her days ago that I'd wrapped her present, ordered the cake, and made arrangements to make myself free of business for the whole day. So yes, she knew I went to the trouble.

No she did not feel "cornered". The whole thing was her idea, she expressed excitement and gratitude when I offered it and she wants to have the party tomorrow.

[quote MaMaD1990]@CallMeCleo I'm really pleased you've found some posters who agree entirely with you - doesn't change my opinion and I'm certainly not confused. She's still a liar, you're still very very intense and it's absolutely still an unhealthy friendship which is better off finished. Good luck![/quote]
I'm not looking for people to "agree with me". As stated in my O.P. I am asking "WWYD?" and seeing what most people would do in position.

You've actually said quite a few things to insult the OP (odd, creepy, hysterical, stalkerish

That's incorrect.

I described some of her actions this way. Other posters did too.

I also apologised if I had upset OP in an early response. I then did not post any further commentary. OP continued to completely break talk guidelines, and those posts have been deleted by MN.

I'm perfectly fine if OP or anyone disagrees with me. It's completely wrong to abuse me in the way she has.

"It's completely wrong to abuse me in the way she has."

You are the abuser. You called me a stalker, hysterical, creepy, weird and more. That's not only insulting, hurtful, abusive and defamatory but 100% untrue. I will never respond to anything you post again, on any thread, but will report your abuse.

@GloriousMystery

"What strikes me, though, is that you seem to see the friend as a bad lot rather than vulnerable and deeply unwell".

I think you are right. I am so caught up with being outraged and hurt by her lies that I'm not really taking on board that she probably has something mentally wrong with her that does not "show" in normal every day interactions. For example three of us were holed up together for weeks during that first lockdown and neither I, nor the other woman who lives here found anything odd about her at all. She was relentlessly cheerful, helpful, bursting with enthusiasm for life. Even covid and being locked down did not depress her at all.

Given that we are all grown adults, is there really any need to "report" posts? We are not in school.

@CallMeCleo

"It's completely wrong to abuse me in the way she has."

You are the abuser. You called me a stalker, hysterical, creepy, weird and more. That's not only insulting, hurtful, abusive and defamatory but 100% untrue. I will never respond to anything you post again, on any thread, but will report your abuse.

Please do. It didn't occur, so you can't.

Your posts OTOH were deleted.