It’s me again with the critical John Lewis obsessed parents who mean well

[TooStressyTooMessy]

Hi all,

I have posted about this before (pre-Covid) under a slightly different username.

I have two DDs, age 8 and 10. Married to DH and we have been together forever (to be clear he is the father of DDs).

I used to have a great (or so I thought) relationship with my parents until I had children. They mean well and absolutely adore our DDs. HOWEVER, I find being with them incredibly stressful. They live a few hours away so are not really involved in our day-to-day lives although we speak on the phone.

They very much want to be ‘fun’ grandparents and this is where the problems start. They think we are too strict, especially DH. They do not like any kind of discipline at all, eg if we told them to use a knife and fork at the table, not to rub off from the table, asked them to help us tidy their rooms, then my parents would view that as too strict. They do not like the children to cry or be sad when they visit or we visit them. I suppose they are Disney grandparents. That would be fine, that is the joy of being grandparents. Except if we tell the kids off for anything at all then my parents eye roll, tut, and often have to go and have a lie down because they get so upset to see a child upset. I really wish I was joking. We can never play a board game or anything like that with them as they become sad if DC lose and get upset.

I am absolutely not too strict and neither is DH although he is stricter than me. I have really struggled with discipline and did a parenting course when they were younger where I was told in no uncertain tones that I needed to be stricter. So I am by no means an ogre.

Basically they hate DH (loved him pre kids), think I am too strict and not capable of parenting, and think the children are growing up in a terrible environment. There is NO abuse. They really just do seem to think that setting boundaries and parenting, eg telling a child it is bedtime and asking them to turn off the telly, asking them not to run off in a busy street (ore-Covid) is cruel.

I got lots of advice on here and actually eventually stood up to them. Told them I was an adult, DH and I are the parents not them. We saw them one more time which was tense but ok and then Covid came.

Of course Covid itself has been truly horrific. But not having to see my parents has been wonderful .

They are coming up for a weekend in May when overnight stays are allowed. I am dreading it. I am already stressed and nagging DH to fix some stuff around the house which needs to be done before they come. I times my Dad one visit and it took him seconds to criticise something from walking in. So DH and I are arguing about it which is the usual way of things and makes me stressed before I have even seen them. He is also upset as it is obvious they do not like him.

They have already suggested us going to the nearest City for a John Lewis shopping trip. I have said no and my mum was surprised and disappointed. I have already said repeatedly that a busy town centre is not a relaxing environment when they will then want to take DDs in and be surprised they want to buy everything in sight. Let alone with the Covid situation - it is not a fun experience! They live not too far from London and can easily go to John Lewis there so I am not depriving them!

I realise this is an opportunity to move forward. It has been over a year since we saw them. I am desperate not to go back to feeling like a child desperate for their approval and them making it clear they think we are bad parents. They are not involved in my parenting usually so why do I feel on show so much when they do come?

TLDR: any tips on moving forward with a more adult relationship with my parents after the natural break of lockdown.

If i were you i would scrap the idea of them coming to stay and stick to day visiting them or visiting them and staying nearby.

It is completely unfair on your husband to have to accommodate your bullying parents - and lets be clear, that is what they are doing. Bullying you both.

Overall advice would be to keep control of contact with them and keep it minimal. It sounds like your life is better without them and that is perfectly ok.

Dont let them bully you into believing they need to come and stay, they most certainly do not.

I think your behaviour towards your parents is similar to that towards your children (before the parenting course), you seem to have unenforced boundaries. Probably due to the bullying from your parents. Some counselling may help you.

I agree that you shouldn't agree to them staying!

I am curious to know how they were as parents when you were growing up in terms of boundaries etc.?

Why did you write that they mean well, they really do not. If your DHs parents were behaving like yours did and still do towards you all, you would not be writing that they mean well. You seem still very much mired in your own fear, obligation and guilt re them; three buttons that they installed in you. I would also agree with the comments the previous respondent made re your own boundaries here. Counselling for you would be helpful as would reading "Toxic Parents" by Susan Forward.

I would also cancel their visit too; no good will come to you of they visiting. They were not good parents to you when you were growing up and they have not changed. They are not interested in moving forward as you seemingly want to do; they merely want you to keep on obeying them and otherwise doing what they want unquestioningly.

Fuck that! Ask them to stay somewhere else or come for the day. They need to see what a pain they've been!

How were they as parents when you were growing up? Did they let you dictate when you got up, went to bed, win every game, watch as much TV as you wanted?! I bet not and this Disney (grand)parenting has only started since you became a parent.

If I was your dh I would have a massive problem with people staying in my home that did not like me. In fact I wouldn't allow it. Your parents need to stay somewhere else. They are critical, overbearing and don't know their place- you need to stand up to them and let them know they need to back off.

Are they staying at yours OP?

I got lots of advice on here and actually eventually stood up to them. Told them I was an adult, DH and I are the parents not them. We saw them one more time which was tense but ok and then Covid came.
Of course Covid itself has been truly horrific. But not having to see my parents has been wonderful
So before lockdown the status quo was actually a bit better. Would you like it to go back to that improved status (and are worried it might have slipped back) or has lockdown put you off the idea of being around them at all?

Harsher replies than I expected but I absolutely deserve them all, thank you. I probably have been too passive in all of this. The reason they are coming is my children adore them, really miss them and have not seen them for over a year. Making the trip in a day is not realistic so they would need to stay somewhere.

I get really annoyed that DH cannot just put a smile on his face and be nice for them when they come but actually you are all right in that I am being unfair to expect that of him.

Atilla, I will have a read of that book. You gave some great advice the last time which did help when I spoke to them. I know I seem really pathetic about all of this but in the past I never even would have said no to the John Lewis trip. I thought I was making progress but perhaps not .

To those asking about growing up... I was a freakishly good child. I never saw the point of being badly behaved as it just seemed so much hassle! I’m sure I had my moments but I suspect I was quite an easy child to parent in that respect. My brother and I hardly ever argued either so the whole sibling rivalry thing came as a shock to me and my parents never had to deal with that either.

But yes, they did indeed set rules and the Disney thing has only really started when they were grandparents. I have absolutely no problem with them not wanting to discipline but it is the fact that they start to cry when we are enforcing it with the kids .

One other thing growing up is that hobbies / extracurricular things outside school were facilitated but only barely. I have made sure to support my DDs in most hobbies they want to do (with some realistic exceptions if things are too far away etc) but they thing this is too much pressure to put on children. From my perspective as a kid I was desperate to do more, as was my brother but it was never facilitated.

Yes they are staying at ours . Then we will be going to them in the summer for 2 or 3 nights (yet another parent related argument with DH as I think 3 nights and he things we should do 2).

ravenmum, honestly I would be happy to not see them again but I would never do that and the kids would be destroyed.

So realistically I would like to go back to how things were pre lockdown. You are absolutely right in that I fear things have slipped back or will slip back. We had the discussion, had a tense visit and then lockdown. Now pre-Covid seems like another life and I fear our long and difficult talk will have been conveniently forgotten.

Fuck that.

If you must facilitate a relationship with your children (and bear in mind how theyve fucked you and your husband up already. Don't think the mind games won't affect them) then reschedule for when they get a hotel and not stay over at your house

You're being massively unreasonable to expect your dh to put up with this bullying in his own home. It's making you argue and driving a wedge between you already.

But I would really stress that although you say your kids miss them do you really want them seeing this behaviour? What do they think when their grandparents start crying at a board game? What message does it send them?

Don’t go to John Lewis. It would be almost as fun as going to the dentists.

Get your husband on your side, you both need to smile politely for gp visits and you need to make sure you only see them every so often so that the smiling politely is possible. Try and apply the things you learnt in parenting courses to your parents (staying calm, setting boundaries etc). Don’t become indebted to your parents by accepting loans or masses of childcare.

All that said I reckon your partner is probably too strict- there’s so much defensive ‘he’s really not’ which makes me think he really is. Children are quick to learn that different rules apply in different settings so if they thank gp for the meal and leave the table before everyone else it’s not a big deal.

Can’t they take the kids out for the day? The. They can deal with the behaviour and you can be the Disney parents when they come home

Franklyfrost funkily enough I have been to the dentist today and would rather do that than see my parents!

Yeah I do feel he is a bit too strict you are right. In daily life we are fine, I’m a bit soft, he is a bit strict, we have met in the middle over the years. I used the table as an example but it is only really Sunday lunch type things we make them sit there, regular meals absolutely a thank you and then leaving the table is fine.

It gets much worse when we are with my parents. I try not to discipline or tell off or say no to the kids at all at these times for fear they will become upset and then my parents will thing we are upsetting the children and scarring them for life. He refuses to do this so ends up being stricter than usual as I am doing nothing. I am trying to keep 4 other people happy and smiling 24/7 and feel nothing but stress from beginning to end of the visit.

I think too much has happened now to get him onside.

isitsafetocomeoutyet, very good point.
Crying at a board game is setting a terrible example for them!

If you want to reset the relationship you need to do something different, otherwise if you do the same things you will get the same outcome.

Don’t have them stay with you, book them an Airbnb or a hotel nearby.

If they start to undermine you, especially with things that you weren’t allowed to do then tell them. “Please don’t undermine my parenting. We weren’t allowed to xyz and I am enforcing sensible rules just as you did as my parent”

If they start on your DH it’s “please don’t undermine DH he is being perfectly reasonable asking them to xyz”

If you honestly would be happy to not see them again then don’t. Your kids will pick up on their behaviour even when you think they don’t notice, and if visits are tense and stress I’d be surprised if the DV don’t pick up on that too.

Beryl, I have suggested that so many times but they want to all be together as apparently they have also come to see me and DH .

DC not DV

RestingPandaFace love the name! Oh I am absolutely sure the kids pick up on my stress. I spend most of the visit whispering to them to just please be good until my parents go home. Really effective parenting on my part there . This is what I mean, I think a big part of the problem is that I am a bad parent when my own parents are there and DH is then over strict to compensate. So my parents have their view of us reinforced and it is just a vicious circle.

"The reason they are coming is my children adore them, really miss them and have not seen them for over a year".

I do not think your children have missed these people as much as you think they have this past year. They have harmed you and in turn your DH and their behaviour remains unhealthy towards you all. What do they, let alone yourselves as their parents, think when their grandparents start crying at a board game? What message does it send them?.

If you really have to see them at all (and I really would not want them around your children given how they behave hence my suggestion to cancel their visit anyway) they do not stay with you under your roof. They need to arrange alternative accommodation.

Re your parents who is the main driver here of this behaviour towards your children?. Regardless of whom it is it looks like they both feed off this behaviour and certainly get what they want out of it.

Sounds so stressful that it is no wonder your dh is uptight. You really do need to make it clear that you absolutely are on his side. If you are. If you are not 100% on his side, that's something you also really need to talk about properly.

Don't make him go in the summer if he doesn't want to. Your parents want to see him. He doesn't want to see them. So they equal one another out, and yours is the deciding vote. If your world was not full of guilt, you'd choose not to see them either. That makes two to one. They lose. Find some other way for them to see him.

If my DM started crying because of me parenting my own children, she'd be sent to the bloody naughty step. FFS.

Why would the kids be "destroyed" by not seeing their gps? Mine saw theirs once a year at most as we live abroad. I'd say their reaction is somewhere between "mildly wistful" and "never thought twice about it".

You also wrote this of your parents earlier:-
"honestly I would be happy to not see them again but I would never do that and the kids would be destroyed"

Have they really conditioned you to believe that steaming pile of old crap, that the sky will fall in on you and your DC if that happened. I also think that thinking is partly coming from a place of FOG (Fear, obligation and guilt).

Why do you also think the kids would be destroyed if they weren't seeing these people?. They are not the arbiters of your relationship; you are. Children love grandparents anyway no matter how crap/abusive they actually are. Some people are not emotionally safe enough to be around, when are you going to teach them that important life lesson?.

What good do they bring into their lives?. They do not bring good into either yours or your H's lives. Look at how your lives have been without these people being at all around. Trying to please everyone else is not going to please you and people pleasing also comes from a place of low self esteem.

Would you have tolerated any of what your parents have done here from a friend?. No, likely not. And your parents are no different nor more special.

I would find a venue around half way between you so that a limited time day trip can happen on neutral territory. It might be worth setting expectations with your DPs by saying “we’re getting the children back into a routine with the school and so on and so we are being very consistent regarding behaviour, please don’t contradict us if we are making the rules clear to the DC as that will confuse them and be upsetting”.

@TooStressyTooMessy

Beryl, I have suggested that so many times but they want to all be together as apparently they have also come to see me and DH .

Why does what they want take priority over what you want?

They can only come stay over with your consent. You have choices here OP, lots of them.

If you always do what you've always done you'll always get what you always got. Just step of the roundabout. Firstly having them in your home is just to much, they need to stay elsewhere so you all get a break (and likewise when you visit them) this is such a good time to start again, if you need a softener use covid as an excuse for why they can't stay over.
Also I really do get it, I was like your children and the tension that preceded a visit to or from my grandparents was palpable, I ended up hating my grandparents as the black cloud that settled over the house when they were due was just too awful.