It’s me again with the critical John Lewis obsessed parents who mean well

[TooStressyTooMessy]

Hi all,

I have posted about this before (pre-Covid) under a slightly different username.

I have two DDs, age 8 and 10. Married to DH and we have been together forever (to be clear he is the father of DDs).

I used to have a great (or so I thought) relationship with my parents until I had children. They mean well and absolutely adore our DDs. HOWEVER, I find being with them incredibly stressful. They live a few hours away so are not really involved in our day-to-day lives although we speak on the phone.

They very much want to be ‘fun’ grandparents and this is where the problems start. They think we are too strict, especially DH. They do not like any kind of discipline at all, eg if we told them to use a knife and fork at the table, not to rub off from the table, asked them to help us tidy their rooms, then my parents would view that as too strict. They do not like the children to cry or be sad when they visit or we visit them. I suppose they are Disney grandparents. That would be fine, that is the joy of being grandparents. Except if we tell the kids off for anything at all then my parents eye roll, tut, and often have to go and have a lie down because they get so upset to see a child upset. I really wish I was joking. We can never play a board game or anything like that with them as they become sad if DC lose and get upset.

I am absolutely not too strict and neither is DH although he is stricter than me. I have really struggled with discipline and did a parenting course when they were younger where I was told in no uncertain tones that I needed to be stricter. So I am by no means an ogre.

Basically they hate DH (loved him pre kids), think I am too strict and not capable of parenting, and think the children are growing up in a terrible environment. There is NO abuse. They really just do seem to think that setting boundaries and parenting, eg telling a child it is bedtime and asking them to turn off the telly, asking them not to run off in a busy street (ore-Covid) is cruel.

I got lots of advice on here and actually eventually stood up to them. Told them I was an adult, DH and I are the parents not them. We saw them one more time which was tense but ok and then Covid came.

Of course Covid itself has been truly horrific. But not having to see my parents has been wonderful .

They are coming up for a weekend in May when overnight stays are allowed. I am dreading it. I am already stressed and nagging DH to fix some stuff around the house which needs to be done before they come. I times my Dad one visit and it took him seconds to criticise something from walking in. So DH and I are arguing about it which is the usual way of things and makes me stressed before I have even seen them. He is also upset as it is obvious they do not like him.

They have already suggested us going to the nearest City for a John Lewis shopping trip. I have said no and my mum was surprised and disappointed. I have already said repeatedly that a busy town centre is not a relaxing environment when they will then want to take DDs in and be surprised they want to buy everything in sight. Let alone with the Covid situation - it is not a fun experience! They live not too far from London and can easily go to John Lewis there so I am not depriving them!

I realise this is an opportunity to move forward. It has been over a year since we saw them. I am desperate not to go back to feeling like a child desperate for their approval and them making it clear they think we are bad parents. They are not involved in my parenting usually so why do I feel on show so much when they do come?

TLDR: any tips on moving forward with a more adult relationship with my parents after the natural break of lockdown.

Hi OP several things struck me reading your posts that relate to my relationship with my in laws.

1.we live 100 miles away and in normal circumstances we only visit once every couple of months. We only stay one night. Any longer and things deteriorate rapidly.

1. If possible could you go and stay with them rather than them coming to you. Then you are in control because you choose when you leave. Which could be when your dad goes for a lie down and your mum starts crying over nothing. Or to avoid an argument maybe tell them in advance you need to leave say 3 pm then extend it if they manage to behave like adults.

1. Is it possible their behaviour stems partly from a love of drama? My MIL used to love making a huge fuss about nothing imo to get attention. She also used to get a kick out of watching me struggling to remain polite while she goaded me mainly because if I challenged her she'd immediately play the victim, burst into tears and they'd all rush over to comfort her. It was easier for them to kowtow than to stand up to her.

1. Sorry if this is offensive but there is no law that says you have to see your parents, or at least see them at certain regular intervals. There's also no guarantee you'll miss them when they're gone. It can be a relief especially if they've not treated you fairly. It can be a chance to finally be true to yourself and live the life you want.

1. My DH finally stood up to his DM a few years ago and she's stopped doing so many upsetting things. Which proves they can change though she's never apologised.

If none of this applies in your case please just ignore it, it's just that a few things you said rung a bell with me.

Awful people. Is it possible you could visit them for a day? How far away are they? I would really limit the time I spent with them . They have a real problem. No way would I have them to stay. You need to set firm boundaries with THEM.
Don’t let them get away with rude controlling and abusive behaviour. Because that is what it is.

I'm also wondering if they get a kick out of undermining your parenting, engineering situations that will cause conflict between you and your OH, and then enjoy watching the fallout. Maybe it gives them a feeling of power.

The thing that sticks out here is your expectations of your husband. How would you react to him inviting 2 people you didn't like to stay? Then demanding you sort the house out before they arrive? Then not sticking to your parenting rules while the visitors were there?
Sounds like a nightmare and he's a saint to tolerate it. I wouldn't.

It does sound like a lot of the issues wouldn't be there if you parented equally when your parents are there. Don't relax the boundaries, the only people who can do that are your parents if left in sole care of the children. No wonder the kids play up if suddenly mum stops telling them off.

You need to sort this out for the sake of your marriage. It's not your DH problem to solve, it's yours.

I think you should point out that you are teaching your children how to deal with being “upset” like a grownup. You know that if you were to be “upset” in a work environment, you couldn’t storm off for a lie down, for example. Instead of teaching your kids to be moody and manipulative, you are teaching them to be confident young people with clear boundaries and expectation - who also understand that the world doesn’t revolve around them or their opinions.

I had parents a bit like this - not evil people but expert natural tension-raisers!

I recognize the phenomenon of getting tense and snappy when they're around, even with DH who is lovely and in normal life can do no ill. And I know it is just them because we get on with others of the same generation just fine! I think it's anticipation of veiled (or not!) criticism coupled with the strain of hosting or traveling, when you ALREADY have enough on your plate.

What did I do about it?

1. stock phrases or little/no response at all. I developed a very nice line in stony silences after goady or critical or inappropriate words from the parents. As my OH says, "don't engage with the madness". Don't be afraid to completely change the topic of conversation to, say, dahlias.

2. Saw that my (mostly male) colleagues would openly say things like, "Well I'm going over to Mum's for Easter Sunday but just for the meal and a walk, then we're going home because she's hard to take in large doses". I embraced this attitude, and would vague-excuse arrangements down to the least worst option

3. neutral territory rocks! People are usually better behaved in public. And something like stately-home-gardens gives everyone a bit more space and a hopefully neutral topic of conversation. And it removes the opportunity to carp about your house, plus, if they still wind you up, you or DH may feel unwell/get an urgent work call/ (insert white lie here) and cut the visit short without the "oh wE THOUGHT you wEre stAYINg for TEA"

4. accepted they were who they were (this was easier when we thought about the effect their childhoods would have had) and just dealt with that as it stood.

5. encouraged uncontroversial topics and activities - having an external focus or purpose to a meetup (e.g. walk to a Thing, helping sort out the garden) really poured oil on the waters.

Lastly, in your particular case it sounds like a frank chat with your DH, where you are very open about the issues you have with your parents, and brainstorm solutions TOGETHER, is needed. Clarify you want to put him and the kids first and say, yes, you know you are paralyzed about keeping the kids in check when the GPs are around, yes, you agree it's not good, you want his help.
Agree stock phrases, and even code if you have to! You've had your kids their whole lives, you can probably anticipate the sort of things they might do and negotiate a shared approach to take - ideally if you both concede one thing (this being just for the duration of a visit) it will be easier to stick to the agreement.

And lastly, do spend time with relatives / in-laws that you DO get on with - it can be very restorative!

Your Dh shouldn’t have to smile and pretend it’s ok. They should be the ones doing this.
HE is parenting HIS children in HIS own home. They are guests.
My mother is like this. I’ve asked her to leave on two occasions.

It struck m

Damn! Posted too soon. It struck me that you recall it being too much trouble to be other than good as a child. I wonder if you felt controlled by your parents’ moods then too? There are more ways of managing other people than by being assertive and having boundaries; tears, sulking and ‘silent treatments’ do the job too. Perhaps it’s threatening to see that you assert boundaries with your own children? And of course, indulging them is a way to control both them and you. You sound afraid to be challenging and afraid of your parents’ moods, and that may have its origins in your past.

Threatening to your parents to witness you holding boundaries, that is.

Aaaggh wrote long reply and lost it and dealt must go to bed now.

Thank you so much - I have read all replies and all viewpoints are so helpful. I really appreciate people sharing their experiences and advice.

Cavagirl your post is a revelation as it has never occurred to me that it might not be specifically about parenting at all.

CrazyNeighbour, my parents absolutely think that of DH too. And to an extent I do think he can suck the fun out of things at times. But I also recognise and have been told my professionals and experienced parents that I have a huge tendency to be too soft (I know I do) so we try to meet in the middle most of the time.

Oh I am absolutely afraid to be challeging and am afraid of my parents moods! I feel the whole visit rests on how disapproving they will be.

Spoke briefly to DH about the summer. We will be doing 2 nights not 3. It won’t be enough time to do all the stuff my parents or the kids wanted so they will all be upset about that. But 3 nights will be too much. Usually DH and I stop speaking on night 1 . Must go to bed!

If you dropped the DC off with your parents what would you be worried about?

Sure the DC may play up and your DP spoil them but when back with you, your rules would apply again. Let your DP alone "suffer" the effects of spoiling the DC for 2/3 days?

You and your H stop speaking on night one of your visits?! Does this not tell you something? If you really want things to change then you need to stop accepting it is going to be a horrible time and Do Something About It!

Oh I wouldn’t be worried at all. I’d happily do that but my parents always say they miss me and want to see me too. They would view it as incredibly rude that we didn’t stay. There seems to be no way to say that actually I don’t miss them and don’t want to see them without causing hurt that I can take back. Especially having not seen them for a year due to Covid.

It's clear you are afraid of everyone's ones moods except maybe your DHs?

You don't want to upset your DC or your DP - tie yourself in knots and no one is happy!

DC 1,000% need boundaries to be happy they make them feel secure. Your DP are appalled that you dare have any boundaries when they trained you to behave exactly how they wanted you to do any deviation from that is an affront.

Your DP are unhinged! The DGC are performing sea lions to give them fulfilment and not rather than humans in their own right to build a relationship with.

Start stopping for one night only!!

completely agree with Cavagirl by the way, this is not about your parenting.

AND even if it was, that doesn't mean you are a bad parent, it means you are not doing it the way they want you to.
Well, they had their chance to parent. They did it their way, you're doing it your way, they do not get to decide if your way is good or not. They are not the judges of that. Don't give them the power to be.

It's not about your parenting it's that your parents are anxious and controlling. Have you thought that perhaps the reason DH insists on going on the shopping trip or whatever is because he feels otherwise they'll be dripping poison about him behind his back?
They aren't lovely grandparents if they make the parents feel like shit. They are teaching your children some really unhealthy emotional dynamics.
Your parents want you all to go out together because they don't actually want to be bothered looking after the children themselves. But it also feeds their love for anxiety and drama to then tantrum about how you are parenting them.
Soooo fucked up. You would really benefit from reading Toxic Parents by Susan Forward. None of this is healthy. I've been there and it's terrifying how similar your parents are to my mother.

Also the fact you claim your kids would be devastated to see them less and that they adore them, have you thought that maybe that's not completely emotionally normal and healthy. If the GPs are creating a tense unpredictable environment it might be more that there's almost a kind of trauma bonding going on. Either that or it's rooted in your anxiety and guilt about always ensuring your parents happiness and you are projecting that onto how the kids might feel.
This feeling responsible for their happiness will eat you up and kill your marriage. It's not healthy.

Yes OP I'm afraid your parents haven't completed an expertise in parenting course and, being experts, assessed you against it and found you lacking.

If you were someone else, saying the exact same things to your children in the exact same way, their response would be totally different.

Unfortunately, at the moment the main activity they are criticising you for is one that you feel low confidence with. You say you had a great relationship pre-DC, I suspect that's because, if you cast your mind back, the things they criticised you for back then didn't hit the same nerve, so you didn't see it.

I also get alarm bells, as with PP, at the language you use to describe their relationship with your DC. "Utterly adore", "destroyed" - this is really emotive stuff, and I wonder where it's coming from. Are these your words? Would your DH use these words?

Have you ever considered counselling to unpick your relationship with your parents?

They would view it as incredibly rude that we didn’t stay.
So? Then you can add "incredibly rude" to the list of your supposed faults. Along with all the other nonsense they think about you.

I just browsed through the posts since last night and saw a huge list of things your parents do that any sane person would view as incredibly rude. Yet you accept it.

You say you had a great relationship pre-DC, I suspect that's because, if you cast your mind back, the things they criticised you for back then didn't hit the same nerve, so you didn't see it. Yes, or that she went along with everything until she had her own children and wanted to do things differently.
This is all going to be hard to hear. I've been there (it's giving me chills how similar it all sounds actually) and it's hard to hear because it's not healthy and it means pulling away from them to a certain extent and that will provoke terror. Because you are terrified of displeasing or disappointing them.

What concerns me slightly in all your updates is your DH's absolute refusal to let you and your parents and the kids do anything without him. I find that odd and very unhealthy and suggests there's an additional dynamic going on here as well. In fact, in most families I know, it's generally well understood that the DH will be more likely to spend time with the kids and his family and the DW with the kids and her family and with everyone coming together for events or bigger occasions. So, for example, when my Dad is here, he and I might take the kids out to an amusement park for the day, or he'd come with me to fetch the kids from school and perhaps take them for an ice cream or whatever and Dh would be happily at home enjoying a break. But if we planned a big meal out or whatever, then of course Dh would come along and obviously if Dad is staying with us then we'd all be together at home. Similarly, DH does the same with his mum. When we visit, he'll take them to her house or out for the day with her and I'll join them for a meal or whatever.

Your parents do sound overly critical but I'm also starting to wonder if they don't like your DH?

I think the fact you say they would think you are 'incredibly rude' not staying is very telling. Before I backed out of my PIL visits etc, I used to put up with dreadful behaviour on their part because it would be rude of me not to. A lifetime of being complaint.

I now see that's mad. All you are doing is enabling them and rewarding them. It's like your 'soft' parenting, you give in because you want to please the people round you, probably learnt as a child. It is entirely reasonable to say we can't stay because you are so awful to DH and I'm embarrassed.

You are now the grown up with the family and if they are anything like my PILs they just couldn't cope with the fact they were suddenly not the Alphas in the family unit. So they just were critical of me to make themselves feel better.