It’s me again with the critical John Lewis obsessed parents who mean well

[TooStressyTooMessy]

Hi all,

I have posted about this before (pre-Covid) under a slightly different username.

I have two DDs, age 8 and 10. Married to DH and we have been together forever (to be clear he is the father of DDs).

I used to have a great (or so I thought) relationship with my parents until I had children. They mean well and absolutely adore our DDs. HOWEVER, I find being with them incredibly stressful. They live a few hours away so are not really involved in our day-to-day lives although we speak on the phone.

They very much want to be ‘fun’ grandparents and this is where the problems start. They think we are too strict, especially DH. They do not like any kind of discipline at all, eg if we told them to use a knife and fork at the table, not to rub off from the table, asked them to help us tidy their rooms, then my parents would view that as too strict. They do not like the children to cry or be sad when they visit or we visit them. I suppose they are Disney grandparents. That would be fine, that is the joy of being grandparents. Except if we tell the kids off for anything at all then my parents eye roll, tut, and often have to go and have a lie down because they get so upset to see a child upset. I really wish I was joking. We can never play a board game or anything like that with them as they become sad if DC lose and get upset.

I am absolutely not too strict and neither is DH although he is stricter than me. I have really struggled with discipline and did a parenting course when they were younger where I was told in no uncertain tones that I needed to be stricter. So I am by no means an ogre.

Basically they hate DH (loved him pre kids), think I am too strict and not capable of parenting, and think the children are growing up in a terrible environment. There is NO abuse. They really just do seem to think that setting boundaries and parenting, eg telling a child it is bedtime and asking them to turn off the telly, asking them not to run off in a busy street (ore-Covid) is cruel.

I got lots of advice on here and actually eventually stood up to them. Told them I was an adult, DH and I are the parents not them. We saw them one more time which was tense but ok and then Covid came.

Of course Covid itself has been truly horrific. But not having to see my parents has been wonderful .

They are coming up for a weekend in May when overnight stays are allowed. I am dreading it. I am already stressed and nagging DH to fix some stuff around the house which needs to be done before they come. I times my Dad one visit and it took him seconds to criticise something from walking in. So DH and I are arguing about it which is the usual way of things and makes me stressed before I have even seen them. He is also upset as it is obvious they do not like him.

They have already suggested us going to the nearest City for a John Lewis shopping trip. I have said no and my mum was surprised and disappointed. I have already said repeatedly that a busy town centre is not a relaxing environment when they will then want to take DDs in and be surprised they want to buy everything in sight. Let alone with the Covid situation - it is not a fun experience! They live not too far from London and can easily go to John Lewis there so I am not depriving them!

I realise this is an opportunity to move forward. It has been over a year since we saw them. I am desperate not to go back to feeling like a child desperate for their approval and them making it clear they think we are bad parents. They are not involved in my parenting usually so why do I feel on show so much when they do come?

TLDR: any tips on moving forward with a more adult relationship with my parents after the natural break of lockdown.

If they are too difficult or otherwise batshit for YOU to deal with, it’s actually the same deal for your children too. I would not leave your children in their company.

I would urge you to get some counselling via BACP re your relationship with your parents and people pleasing behaviours (which stems from low self esteem). In the meantime do consider readingToxic Parents by Susan Forward.

Ginty I do bribe them and quite often beg them but the combination of their bad behaviour (stress? tension?) and the fact that any discipline or even reminder to behave is viewed as negative is very difficult.

Crokof can I ask what happened in the end with your grandparents? Were the visits always a nightmare or did they ever get better. No need to answer of course.

Would you trust your DP to take them shopping on their own?? You and DH could slope off with lunch together nearby then swoop in grab the DC and say your goodbyes?

It's tricky as I was extremely low contact with my DP precisely because my MH couldn't take their criticism and being around them despite therapy. I kept them away from my DC.

Yes I would love them to just take DDs shopping but they say they have come to see me too. Ugh.

What about if you 'managed them really closely? Had an agenda for what you will do, and when. Unfortunately your husband is working so he can only join you for lunch (or whatever). Maybe knowing exactly what you were going to do and when (no shopping!) would are them less anxious?

And maybe try and meet somewhere neutral? Nearer them but you can't stay, unfortunately.

Then you trot out "urgh no either take the DC shopping or we don't go at all, I don't want to traipse around the shops hate it"

What if you just leave out the super stressful situations completely? So normally the kids are ok to ask to leave the table politely and go off and play while the adults finish, but at Sunday Lunch your DH likes them to stay at the table with everyone else? So don’t do Sunday Lunch with your parents. Do a bbq outside where there is no table to leave. Set up some outdoor games if you have any - skittles are good. Go to a nice park or the beach or a National Trust garden instead of John Lewis.

I would talk to your DDs about how your DPs are very anxious, aren't they. Talk about how it's really not good for you to be so terribly anxious about everything and how you wish they'd calm down and not overreact to every little sad feeling anyone ever has. Most of the time when we get sad/angry we feel it strongly for a little while and then it goes away, doesn't it girls? Yes, of course it does. Fancy Granny and Grandad not understanding that. Maybe we can explain to them that it's alright to be sad sometimes (you know?) when we see them.

Seriously, this is what I would do with my DC (they are similar ages to yours). Lay the groundwork and follow through. Otherwise your girls will grow up either confused or just shrugging and saying 'GPS are fucking bonkers Mum'. I doubt you'd like the latter, so please do explain and get them onside now. They have clearly already noticed based on what you've already said!

I can only imagine what your DPs faces will be like when these words are spoken - do ask your DH to hide his delight at their consternation

You need to be firm with them. We had the opposite issue with PIL trying to discipline ours when on holiday. Not bad behaviour just a bit of whinging at the end of a long day which we know how to deal with calmly but which MIL decided to go full on with a big telling off. Without me saying anything, DH put his hand out towards her to get her to back off, he didn’t even say anything. She shut up quickly. The sad thing is she tried it a couple of times more and by the end of the holiday DS wouldn’t walk next to her at all, but pulled at my hand for us to drop back behind her. We’d told him off when he needed it but I think he was bothered that she did it as well and although he took it from us he wouldn’t have it from her.
She seemed to have absolutely no idea how to deal with a tired 7 year old who just needed a bit of encouragement and a couple of biscuits to finish a long walk, not a telling off.

The thing that stuck in my mind when I read your first post was how you were wanting your H to do stuff around the house to avoid attracting criticism from your parents who dislike him! No wonder he is unhappy.

Your dynamic is skewed. You and he should be supporting each other!

"Neil, I suppose I can’t see why he just can’t play along for a couple of days to keep everyone happy but I can see that it must be incredibly annoying to be on the other side. He doesn’t care what they think of him which drives me mad as I care desperately what they think of us. I’m a total people pleaser."

But who is it keeping happy- not you, not him, and I doubt your kids are happy if there are no boundaries and lots of tension.

Honestly, this would kill my marriage.

And I bet your DH insists on coming with you and them because he doesn't trust them or you with them. I wouldn't.

This is hugely toxic.

Sorry, pressed the wrong button ....

You seem to be more worried about upsetting your parents than you do your husband. This is not healthy.

Gosh so many of the things you are saying I want to reply to.

But overall this:

STOP trying to please them.

Your kids, your house, continue as normal. If the kids cry, do what you would normally do. If the kids are naughty do what you would normally do.

When your mum goes - but it is supposed to be a happy time when we are here, or I don't want to see them cry, or any other crap, have a line ready. Same one every time.

In our house, this is how we do it. If that means sometimes they cry because they have to behave, well that is fine. If you don't like the way we parent, go home.

When they go up to lie down and come down with a face like thunder DON'T give in to it. Don't pander. IGNORE their thunder faces, seriously, ignoring bad behaviour in adults like this is very powerful. Put on a cheery voice. Did you have a nice lie down?
No - we were upset because the girls were crying.
Then again reply - well that is how we parent in this house, if you don't like it, don't come and visit.
Don't get in to the discussion, just repeat. That is our choice as to how we parent, if you don't like it, don't come.

It sounds harsh and at some point they are going to get really upset about it, and complain that you don;t want them there, are sending you home etc. At that point you say - we find it very difficult when you constantly undermine us, if you want to see us and the grandchildren, you need to respect how we are parenting. I am serious when I say, if you don't like it, don;t come.

If they leave, let them. If they kick off, leave the room, if they moan on and on, go and make a cup of tea.

@TooStressyTooMessy

Monr0e, I deserve the harshness. He is only dragged on the shopping because he insists on coming. I would happily go with just DC and my parents and so would my parents. I have suggested many a time that he stay home. He views this as a personal insult and of course my parents also imply they want to see him (they don’t really). I struggle to understand this because if he and my in-laws (who I love) wanted to take the kids out on their own I would have no problem with that at all. Frankly after the amount of homeschooling and time I’ve spent parenting with Covid I would be on the sofa binge watching Netflix in my PJs. What annoys me is he is being given the option not to come and basically to have a day off. I would LOVE that! Plus I don’t expect him to do all the parenting, I want us. It’s to back off and do very little just while my parents are here. Especially as the tension is indeed contagious so the girls are likely to behave badly. I do realise I am being completely unreasonable though and I won’t (and haven’t) mention him staying at home on this trip.

Honestly, OP, I think it's really bad for your DDs to discipline them differently/not at all just because your parents are visiting. It makes it stressful for everyone and is confusing for them. Consistency is so important. You need to find the strength to keep doing what you usually do FOR THEIR SAKE. And for your husband's too; I'd be infuriated if my husband acted like you do when his parents visit, so I can understand why your DH ramps it up even if I don't agree with that.

@steppemum

Gosh so many of the things you are saying I want to reply to.

But overall this:

STOP trying to please them.

Your kids, your house, continue as normal. If the kids cry, do what you would normally do. If the kids are naughty do what you would normally do.

When your mum goes - but it is supposed to be a happy time when we are here, or I don't want to see them cry, or any other crap, have a line ready. Same one every time.

In our house, this is how we do it. If that means sometimes they cry because they have to behave, well that is fine. If you don't like the way we parent, go home.

When they go up to lie down and come down with a face like thunder DON'T give in to it. Don't pander. IGNORE their thunder faces, seriously, ignoring bad behaviour in adults like this is very powerful. Put on a cheery voice. Did you have a nice lie down?
No - we were upset because the girls were crying.
Then again reply - well that is how we parent in this house, if you don't like it, don't come and visit.
Don't get in to the discussion, just repeat. That is our choice as to how we parent, if you don't like it, don't come.

It sounds harsh and at some point they are going to get really upset about it, and complain that you don;t want them there, are sending you home etc. At that point you say - we find it very difficult when you constantly undermine us, if you want to see us and the grandchildren, you need to respect how we are parenting. I am serious when I say, if you don't like it, don;t come.

If they leave, let them. If they kick off, leave the room, if they moan on and on, go and make a cup of tea.

I'd also be telling them at they are the ones creating a bad atmosphere and tension all the time.

But actually I just wouldn't have them to stay in the first place.

OP haven't read your prior threads but one thing that stands out to me is - this is nothing at all to do with your parenting.

Your parenting and the DC are probably the biggest element of your life that they observe you doing. Therefore, it's criticised.

If you were renovating a house, it would be that instead (in fact I think you mentioned they criticise your house as well).

Your DB has a dog - so for him, it's that.

If you didn't have DC and got a horse, your horse would be too cold/not exercised enough/not groomed enough.

If you started running and that took up most of your time, it would be that.

It's unfortunate (and perhaps not coincidental) that you don't feel confident about your parenting abilities and that is the topic they see most of and therefore criticise, thus reinforcing your lack of confidence.

But it's not that you're a bad parent. It's that you're A parent. Please remember this.

Unfortunately they still see you as a child and not an independent adult. I agree with PP who suggested the Stately Homes Thread. They sound toxic and I'd really think hard about whether your children utterly adoring them is such a good thing.

Similar situation for us, but my ILs.
After arrival of DC we only do day visits, we visit them, 125 miles each way, a long day but the only way to control a similar stream of behaviour.
Please don't let them drive a wedge between you, expecting your DH to not participate seems like him being left out rather than the treat of time to himself.
Good luck in the future!

You should read the Stately Homes threads.
I think there are some big unresolved issues with your childhood to do with fear of their reactions and feeling responsible for their happiness.
It is very familiar to me. I would say though that expecting your DH to suck it up is deeply unfair. Your parents are interfering and criticizing his parenting and you are backing them up. How would you feel if the roles were reversed. Your loyalty should be to your DH, if it's not then you need to think about why you are together.
There is some serious dysfunction going on here and it will eat away at your marriage and give your kids an unhealthy view of relationships and boundaries.

Don't have them to stay or stay with them in the summer, it's really unfair on your DH.

I think once this sort of dynamic starts it will not resolve til someone puts their foot down. My parents used to do this. I told them it was not ok and I would not be spending time with them until they kept their opinions to themselves. It was not comfortable, but until you set a limit, it will keep happening. You might tell them that you love them, want them to spend time with your family and you dont want to get to the stage that they cannot stay in your house, but unless they stop this is what will happen. And then I would tell them exactly what the behaviour is that needs to stop.
This.
There are 2 things you need to do. First you and your husband need to be on the same page with discipline so no more soft-cop-hard-cop routine. Sit down and decide on boundaries and get the children used to them before your parents arrive (and make sure this discipline is consistent during their visit).
Secondly, I would write to them and remind them what you discussed pre-covid and reiterating your house your rules. Explain that you're looking forward to seeing them (!) but you want it to be a relaxed and non-critical visit otherwise it won't be enjoyable. Tell them you support your husband totally (you'll both be on the same page by then) and need them to do the same otherwise their visit will be a one off.
Then see what happens. Be prepared to pull them up with a tinkly laugh if they overstep the boundaries and if the children play up just say they're showing off and try and ignore them.
It's imperative you and your husband present a united front so if he can't compromise then throw the towel in and spend their visit in bed with a migraine and let them all get on with it. Good luck.

You and DH need a big chat to agree your tactics. But I think you're redirecting a lot of the pressure and stress of your parents his way and I don't wonder that he's digging his heels in.

You absolutely must not 'parent differently' when your parents are there. WTF is that all about? No wonder your DDs act up, they won't know if they're on their heads or their heels.

Parent your way.
Practice a sunny smile, a tinkly laugh and a conversational redirect.
Parent your parents the same way as you parent your kids - don't put up with their shit.

I recognise this is highly ingrained behaviour and that you are trying hard to overcome the patterns of years but if you are going to inflict these people into your household then you have to find a way to stand up to them.

If my dad went for a lie down because of the way I parent my kids I would send him for a psychiatric assessment - and I'd tell him that's what I was doing and why.

Did your parents discipline you when you was a child, if so, I'd remind them of that and tell them not to interfer with your parenting.
I would also say we would love you to stay but not if you are going to not pick about the house and make my husband feel uneasy. You are visiting us, you need to follow our house rules

Your DDs misbehave when your parents are around because they can see that you're behaving differently. If you parented them normally then they'd behave normally too.

It's not clear if their behaviour is actually naughty or just something that your parents who disapprove of. If it's the latter then you need to stand up for yourself and them. If it's the former perhaps that's part of the reason that they enjoy the visits? (They can misbehave and you'll say very little. ) if they misbehave when the grandparents are around then surely that's an incentive that you can use?

Perhaps you can start small. Tell them that you and dc don't enjoy shopping so will not be going to John Lewis although they are welcome to go on their own. For people who are supposedly child-centric, it's an odd place to go for an outing.

They sound horribly unsupportive, unbearable and controlling. How dare they judge your parenting when they are bad parents themselves! Please get counselling and try to work as a team with your partner.