It’s me again with the critical John Lewis obsessed parents who mean well

[TooStressyTooMessy]

Hi all,

I have posted about this before (pre-Covid) under a slightly different username.

I have two DDs, age 8 and 10. Married to DH and we have been together forever (to be clear he is the father of DDs).

I used to have a great (or so I thought) relationship with my parents until I had children. They mean well and absolutely adore our DDs. HOWEVER, I find being with them incredibly stressful. They live a few hours away so are not really involved in our day-to-day lives although we speak on the phone.

They very much want to be ‘fun’ grandparents and this is where the problems start. They think we are too strict, especially DH. They do not like any kind of discipline at all, eg if we told them to use a knife and fork at the table, not to rub off from the table, asked them to help us tidy their rooms, then my parents would view that as too strict. They do not like the children to cry or be sad when they visit or we visit them. I suppose they are Disney grandparents. That would be fine, that is the joy of being grandparents. Except if we tell the kids off for anything at all then my parents eye roll, tut, and often have to go and have a lie down because they get so upset to see a child upset. I really wish I was joking. We can never play a board game or anything like that with them as they become sad if DC lose and get upset.

I am absolutely not too strict and neither is DH although he is stricter than me. I have really struggled with discipline and did a parenting course when they were younger where I was told in no uncertain tones that I needed to be stricter. So I am by no means an ogre.

Basically they hate DH (loved him pre kids), think I am too strict and not capable of parenting, and think the children are growing up in a terrible environment. There is NO abuse. They really just do seem to think that setting boundaries and parenting, eg telling a child it is bedtime and asking them to turn off the telly, asking them not to run off in a busy street (ore-Covid) is cruel.

I got lots of advice on here and actually eventually stood up to them. Told them I was an adult, DH and I are the parents not them. We saw them one more time which was tense but ok and then Covid came.

Of course Covid itself has been truly horrific. But not having to see my parents has been wonderful .

They are coming up for a weekend in May when overnight stays are allowed. I am dreading it. I am already stressed and nagging DH to fix some stuff around the house which needs to be done before they come. I times my Dad one visit and it took him seconds to criticise something from walking in. So DH and I are arguing about it which is the usual way of things and makes me stressed before I have even seen them. He is also upset as it is obvious they do not like him.

They have already suggested us going to the nearest City for a John Lewis shopping trip. I have said no and my mum was surprised and disappointed. I have already said repeatedly that a busy town centre is not a relaxing environment when they will then want to take DDs in and be surprised they want to buy everything in sight. Let alone with the Covid situation - it is not a fun experience! They live not too far from London and can easily go to John Lewis there so I am not depriving them!

I realise this is an opportunity to move forward. It has been over a year since we saw them. I am desperate not to go back to feeling like a child desperate for their approval and them making it clear they think we are bad parents. They are not involved in my parenting usually so why do I feel on show so much when they do come?

TLDR: any tips on moving forward with a more adult relationship with my parents after the natural break of lockdown.

I think to not see them at all is unrealistic basically.They sound like doting DGP but they have overdone the doting bit by the sounds of it! Many DGP seem to "forget" what its like to be a parent trying to discipline children and give them some guidelines . Crying if you tell DC off and lying down seem massive overeactions on their part. Agree with above PP that you need to say before you go out what the rules are .They are massively overstepping the boundaries here .DGP will often spoil DGC its true but this is a whole new level!

The John Lewis one is easy surely? "Brilliant, mum and dad, you take the girls to John Lewis to do some shopping while DH and I go have a lovely lunch as with Covid we haven't had any time to ourselves. It will be a lovely bonding tie for you and the DGD".

And if they say, "but we want to do ti all together" then isn't that a classic MN tinkly laugh moment and a "but we'll all be together loads and frankly a trip to JL sounds like hell for me, but you and the girls will love it."

As for the rest, honestly, if my MIL cried (and I say MIL because my mum was an indulgent grandparent, as is my Dad, but both were/are big believers in parental discipline and if anything, are more likely to tell me I'm too soft!), because she thinks I'm too harsh on the DC, at best I'd burst out laughing. At worst I'd tell her she's being ridiculous. It's not uncommon for MIL to say things like, "Oh, but DD just wants to do x or y" and for me to say, "I Know, but bedtime needs to happen as otherwise she'll be tired for school tomorrow" and then I just ignore her. I do take the approach that she can disney grandparent them if she likes on her own time - eg if we're visiting and she lets them have too much chocolate, I'm not going to have a go at her as we don't see her that often. But I'm not going to let her tell me that I must give them more chocolate.

Parent the same whoever is looking, or when no one is looking.

I’m still here, got a few things to do before school run. Really appreciate all replies.

How old are the children would you trust your parents to take them out to John Lewis by themselves? They need some real experience of the kids being challenging/ kicking off without you or your husband dealing with the behaviour for them. They need to be exposed to the children enough that they develop the normal irritations and frustrations that will crowbar off their rose coloured spectacles. Then they will have a much more real relationship with the children. However this so sweet can’t cope with any disciplining of the children without having to lie down doesn’t tally with the hyper critical behaviour they seem to display towards you and even more so to your husband. The behaviour towards their grandchildren seems very contrived, it’s very two faced to be simpering over your kids and being hateful towards your husband.

My parents can be hard work, but my Dad is now sick and I really regret getting grumpy with them as deep down they truly love us all.

It’s only when it’s too late do you regret not making enough effort.

Just accept them for who they are and try to enjoy spending time with them.

Sorry realised you have posted the children’s ages.

You haven't seen them in over a year. If this were me, I'd see how this visit goes. They've had a long time to think over your comments, you've had a long time to decide how you want to manage the relationship going forward.

If, after this visit, it becomes clear nothing has changed, then dial it back. And back. And back. Until they clock on and start to respect your boundaries and your DH.

This is nuts. I’m trying to imagine if my mil did this and dp thought I shouldn’t discipline my children in front of them and then they cried at a board game. It would be along the lines of this is a terrible example to set our dc, you will have to stay some where else. They love you but it is really important they have some boundaries and resilience as well. And dp could go jump if he thought I should put up with this in my house!

Agree with your dp on your visit, 2 nights is enough and only if this one works.
Call your parents and remind them that pre lockdown they were very critical of your parenting and that’s not ok in your house.they can find a hotel if they want and just visit. And oh my god if they sob during a board game just send them to their rooms.

Having had this break I think you have the chance to reestablish the relationship with clear boundaries. If you are even considering breaking off the relationship completely it has got to be worth trying the following.
Explain that they need to book a local B&B if they ask why say that you want to see them but you find the criticism of all aspects of your life very wearing so it will be easier to be able to go somewhere else at the end of the day to allow everyone to regroup. If they get angry then say that is the option and that when you come to them in the summer you intend to book somewhere independent to stay too. Say you will not go back to how things were before, but would like to start fresh with everyone’s feelings been taken into account. If they say no, just say I am really sorry to hear that, if you reconsider for the summer, let me know and then put the phone down, They want to be OTT nice to your kids and be horrible to you and your husband, they sound very manipulative and you have to stop that before it restarts. If you don’t use this window to try and sort things out for the future you will end up right back where you were before Covid.

I am trying to keep 4 other people happy and smiling 24/7 and feel nothing but stress from beginning to end of the visit.

This is the bit of all your posts that really stood out for me.

Have you asked yourself why?

Why is your parents’ happiness more important than your husband’s? They don’t think his happiness, or yours, is particularly important. Why are they treated better than they are prepared to treat you?

Why do you treat them better than they treat your husband.

It feels like you need to stop treating them as special guests. They are visiting you in your normal life. They get to see your normal life, and if they don’t like it there are plenty of hotels and Airbnbs, or their own home. Your kids will probably behave better with the normal boundaries in place.

And arm yourself with some stock phrases for when your parents act up, just like you’ve probably got stock phrases for when your kids act up.

‘Our home our rules, I’m afraid mum. The kids are perfectly capable of wiping the table after they’ve made a mess, I’m really proud of how capable they’re getting as they grow up, aren’t you?’

‘Goodness, no tears over a board game! DC, go and give grandad a hug and tell him it’s just a game.’

‘They do the hobbies they want to do, and we’re all happy with the balance, thanks.’

‘Gosh, dad, it feels like you’re a hotel inspector who’s got lost. That job isn’t a priority for us at the moment. We’ll get to it when it suits us.’

‘I know you don’t agree but we’re happy with the boundaries we’ve set for the kids, and we have no plans to change. It suits all of us.’

Take away their power. You’re the one who holds the cards here - why are you desperate to please them? Why aren’t they desperate to please you and your husband?l so they can be assured of future access to their grandkids?

What’s the worst they can do to you?

Take this as your reset moment. Present a different front to them post-lockdown. This is your home and your family, and you’re in charge. You don’t need to smile for them if they’re not doing things that make you smile. It’s not your job to keep them happy. If they can’t take joy in you and your family as you are, then they deserve to be unhappy.

If it were me, I'd just be really black and white with them, in writing, before they come.

Text or email.

"Ahead of your visit on X date, I just want to remind you both of previous conversations weve had about the kids. You may not like to see the children pulled up on behaviour, or to see them upset when issues arise. But you need to remember during your stay that we are their parents and we are doing a good job at raising them our way. I'm all for grandparents being able to have fun with their grandkids, but do not use this as an excuse to judge or criticise or react to mine and dh's frankly normal parenting style. Also, last time you visited dad, you were barely through the door before you started nit picking at stuff round the house. Please remember you are guests in mine and dh's home. I'm sure you both want us all to have a lovely few days together. Oh, also, the kids fancy X Attraction while you are both here, rather than shopping. Shall I book you both to come along with us on the Saturday?"

Any nonsense behaviour or comments during their stay and I refer straight back to the above message.

Above all, you need to get it straight in your head - they are who they are. They either conform to your rules to facilitate a relationship with their grandchildren or they choose not to, which is them basically choosing not to have a close relationship with the grandchildren.you cant change who they are.

well, first, stop telling your kids to behave, that stresses everyone.

second, when they comment etc, laugh it off, with a firm put in your place sentence. Where possible, make it about how you were parented, to show them that they were not disney, so..

Oh ha ha, well, this is our house and the rules are stay at the table,so that is how it is.
Oh goodness me, of course they have to go to bed. When I was growing up, I always had a bedtime didn't I?
Ha ha, really? Obviously I wouldn't let him hit his sister, so he needs to have a consequence.

After your comment, which is to firmly say, this is how it is it is normal, don't discuss it. Talk to kids, be distracted, go and make tea, just don't focus on them and don't continue the conversation.

If your Mum goes to have a lie down IGNORE HER. Continue as normal. If you had planned to go out, go. So call upsatirs - we're off to the park in 5 mins Mum if you want to come. Then in 5 mins, we'r off, see you later.
Simply do not engage with her sulking. She misses out on kids and it is firmly her fault

I think not having them stay with you would really help. Insist on an air b n b type thing. A 'boundary' for you to enforce can be not staying in your home. Gives your DH space as they don't like him, and ensures you don't have to worry about them behaving at every single meal time or whatever, so you still have some downtime.

If they don't like it tell them why. I have issues with my DM and can relate to a degree. It's easy to think you'll enforce the boundaries when they come to stay but I get the vibe that you won't manage to! So be firm and set that first one now, no overnights at yours.

They sound awful OP!

I guess my advice would be similar to a lot of others - stand up to them for your own benefit yes, but more importantly defend your DH! From what you've said he has a perfectly reasonable parenting style (maybe different to yours but still reasonable) and you must must must defend him immediately from any attack whatsoever on him. I would do this for my DH, and expect the same from him.

So literally the first eye roll or comment from your parents, I would immediately say that you find that unacceptable, and won't be putting up with any comments on the parenting of your own children. If they then do it again, ask them to leave. I am serious. I don't mean you need to end the relationship permanently, but they need to know that these are your boundaries and that to have a relationship with you long-term they need to respect them. Tell them you'd love to see them again if they can respect them.

I would also talk to DH in advance, be honest that you're stressed but tell him you intend to defend him and that he is your priority, not pandering to your parents' completely unreasonable behaviour. You left your parents (nuclear) family and formed a new one with DH - he is your priority. Hopefully if he knows you are trying he will be less stressed. If you think you might find it difficult to stand up to them in real life, I would probably write them a friendly but firm message in advance so they know that judgemental behaviour towards either you or DH won't be happening.

Good luck!

Crying over board games?? Your parents sound bonkers.

Your h and you really need to approach this like a team. If you can acknowledge to each other that you wimp out of parenting when you see your parents and he becomes Uber-strict parent, then you can agree to work together to avoid this!

You could also fire a warning shot at your parents: 'Mum and Dad, you've got into the habit of being critical of my parenting. I remember how you parented me and it was very different. And your parents didn't interfere with your parenting! You need to let me and h parent our own dc, or we won't take the dc to see you.'

See what they say.

Best of luck, op.

@Ohtheplacesyougo

My parents can be hard work, but my Dad is now sick and I really regret getting grumpy with them as deep down they truly love us all.

It’s only when it’s too late do you regret not making enough effort.

Just accept them for who they are and try to enjoy spending time with them.

I don’t personally understand this view, every one of us will eventually die and most of us will get sick. You can’t live your life accepting frustrating and upsetting behaviour from family just because one day they’ll be sick or gone. If anything I’d say it’s even more of an incentive to proactively draw boundaries and work to make the relationship more manageable and work better for you. So in time you’re not as resentful and distant, if you’ve been able to craft a happier and more balanced relationship.

I say that as someone whose mother is dead. Doesn’t change the fact that while alive some of her behaviour bothered me and I was right to feel that way and approach it in a way I saw fit, you know?

@ravenmum

Why would the kids be "destroyed" by not seeing their gps? Mine saw theirs once a year at most as we live abroad. I'd say their reaction is somewhere between "mildly wistful" and "never thought twice about it".

Exactly the same situation and reaction for my kids.

I think you feel threatened by your parents. Almost as if you’re regressing into wanting to be a good girl while also keeping them at a distance by showing that you’re DOING FINE and there’s NOTHING TO SEE HERE. You can do this as a lone adult but getting kids to be good all the time is super stressful. Be confident in your parenting abilities regardless of what your parents think.

Your partner should back off and diffuse the situation rather than dole out extra strictness. Is there no way he could support you? Then at least you’d have someone on your team.

Like others, I would be so reluctant to have them stay in the house under the circumstances. Talking to them - over the phone, by email, whatever works best - before they come might help.

And if you have to pull them up on their behaviour in front of your children then do so. My children were not harmed by being told "Grandma is not in charge of you, Mummy is" once or twice, and speaking frankly with my in-laws has helped somewhat.

You and your DH are the parents of your children. You need to remember that. Parent the way you always do, and if your parents can't handle it then they can leave. You and your DH should be a partnership. It doesn't sound like you're supporting him over this.

Before you allow them the privilege of staying over in your house, you need to have a frank chat with them about what is and is not acceptable. Stress that you want them to have a good relationship with their grandkids, and with you, but that their behaviour is making it impossible. Give specific examples when you explain what is not ok and make it clear you will not tolerate undermining of your parenting. Sounds like they also need to apologize to your partner too. You have the chance to set up things in a different way and more in line of what you need. It is not uncommon for grandparents to be soft with grandkids - but crying in front of them because they lost a game? Ridiculous.

I had an IL problem like this. Not that they are doting or hands on but just critical. They were particularly difficult with me. When DC came along it became much more acute. DH wasn't great at dealing and any time with them was v stressful, so I just took myself out of the equation. No amount of chats ever worked as they were sure they were right. DH took DC to see them by himself. They weren't really welcome here but if they did come I found something else to do. Nothing else worked. Your DH could try that. They never asked why because I suspect they didn't want to hear the answer.

At park after school, will check thread later ASAP.

Ooh, no advice but following as we have a not-wildly-dissimilar situation with my own parents (adore kids, but alternate warmth with hypercriticism towards me and DP, find DP lacking). As in your case, lockdown has provided a welcome break as things were getting worse after the birth of DC2 (our DCs are younger than yours). I am pondering as to how we take things forward as all I am sure about is that the previous status quo was not working for either me or DP.

Thank you so much to everyone for your helpful replies.

To those asking why my kids would be upset not to see them, they adore my grandparents. It helps of course that there is no discipline and lots of presents but they also do genuinely love them.

Meeting up somewhere halfway would be great but the DC want to see them for more than a day and since it had been such a long time I felt obliged to make a longer visit.

Re. who is the main driver of the behaviour, I really think it is both of them. My Dad is the one who goes to lie down. My DM just always looks as if she is about to cry when the kids are upset.

I find it really interesting that you say I have lots of choices Vanilla as the only one I. An see is to try desperately hard to avoid any upset or argument for the duration of the visit while not exploding with stress. Clearly I need to try to change my thinking to see the choices.