It’s me again with the critical John Lewis obsessed parents who mean well

[TooStressyTooMessy]

Hi all,

I have posted about this before (pre-Covid) under a slightly different username.

I have two DDs, age 8 and 10. Married to DH and we have been together forever (to be clear he is the father of DDs).

I used to have a great (or so I thought) relationship with my parents until I had children. They mean well and absolutely adore our DDs. HOWEVER, I find being with them incredibly stressful. They live a few hours away so are not really involved in our day-to-day lives although we speak on the phone.

They very much want to be ‘fun’ grandparents and this is where the problems start. They think we are too strict, especially DH. They do not like any kind of discipline at all, eg if we told them to use a knife and fork at the table, not to rub off from the table, asked them to help us tidy their rooms, then my parents would view that as too strict. They do not like the children to cry or be sad when they visit or we visit them. I suppose they are Disney grandparents. That would be fine, that is the joy of being grandparents. Except if we tell the kids off for anything at all then my parents eye roll, tut, and often have to go and have a lie down because they get so upset to see a child upset. I really wish I was joking. We can never play a board game or anything like that with them as they become sad if DC lose and get upset.

I am absolutely not too strict and neither is DH although he is stricter than me. I have really struggled with discipline and did a parenting course when they were younger where I was told in no uncertain tones that I needed to be stricter. So I am by no means an ogre.

Basically they hate DH (loved him pre kids), think I am too strict and not capable of parenting, and think the children are growing up in a terrible environment. There is NO abuse. They really just do seem to think that setting boundaries and parenting, eg telling a child it is bedtime and asking them to turn off the telly, asking them not to run off in a busy street (ore-Covid) is cruel.

I got lots of advice on here and actually eventually stood up to them. Told them I was an adult, DH and I are the parents not them. We saw them one more time which was tense but ok and then Covid came.

Of course Covid itself has been truly horrific. But not having to see my parents has been wonderful .

They are coming up for a weekend in May when overnight stays are allowed. I am dreading it. I am already stressed and nagging DH to fix some stuff around the house which needs to be done before they come. I times my Dad one visit and it took him seconds to criticise something from walking in. So DH and I are arguing about it which is the usual way of things and makes me stressed before I have even seen them. He is also upset as it is obvious they do not like him.

They have already suggested us going to the nearest City for a John Lewis shopping trip. I have said no and my mum was surprised and disappointed. I have already said repeatedly that a busy town centre is not a relaxing environment when they will then want to take DDs in and be surprised they want to buy everything in sight. Let alone with the Covid situation - it is not a fun experience! They live not too far from London and can easily go to John Lewis there so I am not depriving them!

I realise this is an opportunity to move forward. It has been over a year since we saw them. I am desperate not to go back to feeling like a child desperate for their approval and them making it clear they think we are bad parents. They are not involved in my parenting usually so why do I feel on show so much when they do come?

TLDR: any tips on moving forward with a more adult relationship with my parents after the natural break of lockdown.

I'd say just ignore their behaviour and stop trying to please them.

Try not to let it bother you if they get upset. If they choose to get upset instead of accepting you and your family then they are spoiling it for themselves.

Even if you don't feel it, act like you don't give a monkeys about their petty opinions, and there's no need to justify yourself.

If they are concerned about your childrens'safety then it's different but for minor things they can just do one.

Or let them babysit for an evening while you and DH go out. Tell them they can do what they like while you're out, and if they have time would they kindly mind doing the little jobs around the house that DH just doesn't have the time to do.

They won't judge you again after they have a go themselves.

I find it really interesting that you say I have lots of choices Vanilla as the only one I. An see is to try desperately hard to avoid any upset or argument for the duration of the visit while not exploding with stress. Clearly I need to try to change my thinking to see the choices.

But why? Who does that benefit?

You have to break yourself of the idea that their happiness is your responsibility. Because it’s not.

This is your family. They are your primary responsibility. Your husband’s happiness and your own are just as important.

Your parents aren’t trying desperately hard to avoid upset or argument, are they? Why are they more important than you or your husband?

So - you and your husband are already miserable when they’re here. The kids are confused because their boundaries are all over the place. Why are you bending over backwards to keep the two people happy who are the ones creating the problem?

You have the choice to say - this is our life. These are the choices we’ve made about how we want to live and raise our kids. We are happy with them. If you aren’t happy with those choices they can either keep quiet about it, or keep away.

Even if you don't feel it, act like you don't give a monkeys about their petty opinions, and there's no need to justify yourself.

Yes this is key. You obviously do care, deeply and desperately. That’s what enables them to act like this.

You have to pretend, and it will be bloody hard to just shrug and say ‘yes, you’ve said that before’ and ignore the sulks and histrionics.

But then you’ll get used to it. And then finally it will be true.

Crockof, you are absolutely right it feels exactly like a dark cloud descends. I think that also really doesn’t help as of course that is the atmosphere my parents walk into so they probably think the house feels like they all the time. No wonder they worry for the girls’ well-being.

I have no problem with grandparents spoiling DC when they see them infrequently, it’s as PP say this is just to a ridiculous level.

I have suggested they take the girls on their own to John Lewis but, surprise surprise they don’t want to and want us to go together. I think I have escaped that torture for this time but I do like your response Triffid!

Jassy, your hotel inspector comment is golden . I read it just before school pick up and had to stop myself cackling in public. It is perfect thank you. I don’t know why I feel the need to please everyone, I just do!

Franklyfrost, your post hits the nail on the head. I feel absolutely threatened by them. From a distance I feel that i can get them to think I am an ok parent but in the flesh they make it clear they don’t think that at all.

Thanks so much to those saying I need to make this a reset and giving some useful phrases - this is absolutely why I posted as I am so concerned we will just slide back.

steppemum, lots of useful advice thank you. With the lying down, what happens is my dad goes to lie down because he sees the kids upset. My mum then goes to check on him. Then they eventually come back downstairs with faces like thunder and the whole house takes on a sort of funeral feel . It should be funny but it is horrific!!!

To the poster saying I would miss them when they are gone, yes this is a huge driver of why I facilitate this.

MyCat, I’m afraid things got much worse for us when DC2 was born.

Sympathies to anyone in similar positions .

If anyone has seen A Bad Moms Christmas, they are like the character Christine Baranski plays .

With the DH situation, things are not perfect (what is in life?!) and I really don’t think he helps. I’ve suggested many times I see them without him and he gets really grumpy - I think he resents that we would all get along better separately. I still find it hard to understand why he can’t just suck it up, let the kids run wild for a few days and just get through the visits.

I think the trouble is I will never win with them. I want them to think I am a good parent but they are so critical of everything. My DB recently got a dog and I see it in their behaviour there, whatever he does is wrong as they tell me every they think he is doing wrong. If they see babies with no socks on in winter they will blame the parents, that sort of thing, not at all acknowledging that babies take socks and gloves off despite your best efforts.

Who cares if the DC want to see them for more than a day? You don’t and your DH doesn’t. The children can have views but you are in charge!

I have never been particularly confident in my parenting abilities. I’m not a natural parent. I think the fact my own parents obviously think I am a shit one makes me desperate for their approval, even though objectively I know it doesn’t matter.

I just bought this book “if you had controlling parents” by Dan Neuharth after seeing someone (Atilla?) recommend it.

Ffs your parents make a fuss when the kids cry about losing a board game. Their reactions are CRAZY. Who cares what they think about your parenting? Their judgement is massively, massively off.

You are so frightened of their judgement. This is not right or normal. Sorry OP

You are in charge. You are a grown adult. You may not be a perfect parent (who is?) but you are doing your absolute best and that is Good Enough.

You are all so right! Absolutely the kids behaviour is bad when they are here as the boundaries are so variable.

Day to day I really just get on with parenting and after 10 years I feel confident in at least some aspects of it. But when I’m with them it’s like I am under a microscope. What happens is I am desperately trying to keep the kids behaving well and my DH from saying or doing anything at all. Inevitably the kids sense the stress and play up. I do nothing. DH intervenes. I am paralysed with the familiar misery that things will kick off. My parents get upset, tut, eye roll or say their usual saying of ‘there’s no crying when we visit’. It’s like a pressure cooker.

So maybe I just need to fake it until I make it?

I will look at that book Comtesse

Being desperate for their approval is also part of the problem. They will never give you the approval you seek because they are not built that way. Their approval is always conditional.

Be tired here of being the last one who matters. Your parents were not good parents to you when you were growing up and they have not changed. I would also think your mother has always followed her husband about, these two really enable each other to behave as they do. They are both as bad as one another. By the way what if anything do you know about their own family background, that often gives clues. My guess also is that you will continue to co-operate, they will never do that with or for you. I would think it a given they have never apologised either nor have accepted any responsibility for their actions.

Does your brother have any sort of a relationship with them these days? What does he make of his parents?

While the DC may think that they want to see their DGPs for more than one day, my view is that they will find it overwhelming and it’s better to start off with small steps to see how they cope. Additional bonus is that you get to see how your parents behave. So I’ll repeat my thoughts from before, a neutral point halfway, with a defined time you will leave by. If you feel brave enough you can set some expectations with your parents beforehand too.

There is obviously something very deep rooted around your relationship with them and I think you would do well to browse the Stately Homes threads on the relationships board.

At 8 and 10 years, how much telling off do they need when the DGP are there for a couple of days?

I see you as trying to please everyone and that you do have your DHs back but does he have yours?

Your DC probably get excited to have visitors and may act up a little. I don't see the harm in it as long as they aren't rude or destructive.

How much tolerance does your DH have with them when they do things he doesn't like?

As is so often the case, you are trying to make everyone happy but actually it ends with no one happy.

Have you ever thought that perhaps criticizing you IS making your parents happy? They get the glow of self righteousness, of knowing they are better than you. How would that change your view of things?

My parents are like this with my son. I just have to keep reminding them he’s my son, and that developmentally he is a lot happier and well taken care of than any of her kids were.

Ranty, they will still quite happily physically fight, bicker, leave stuff lying around that needs picking up, DD2 will try to eat with fingers not a knife and fork, that sort of thing.

It’s not just discipline though, it is worry too. As a pre Covid example, they will try to go to the toilet about 10 times in a restaurant. My parents will be concerned they have a UTI or are unwell. No, they are just scouting out the toilets as for some reason they love to snoop around them in restaurants. Then I will be asked if I shouldn’t be taking them to the doctors to check why they are going to the toilet all the time despite not doing that at all in our boring toilets at home. I do think DH is a bit too strict and that absolutely doesn’t help. In the parenting course I did (when DD2 was 3/4) they explained that if one parent is very strict or very soft the other can go the opposite way to compensate. We worked very hard on meeting in the middle. We don’t get it right all the time but we are not wildly off. What happens with my parents is we revert to a dynamic of me setting no boundaries at all and him over- setting them.

Atilla, my brother used to keep them at arms length and see them every few months. He didn’t allow them in his house as they constantly criticised it but he didn’t give them that reason, just said it was easier to meet away from the home as his flat was small. Covid changed things a bit. He bubbled with them (he’s single, lonely and working mostly from home) and they meet once a month or so. Interestingly I see a similar dynamic with them now he has a puppy. To me (non-dog owner) he is doing a good job, of course learning as he goes and making a few mistakes but is working really hard, doing loads of training and clearly loved the dog and the dog loves him. Plus of course puppies are hard work and it will not all be sweetness and light. My parents tell me they think he has taken on far too much, that he doesn’t have time for a dog (he is single, working from home for the forseeable future and has no DC) and that he will not manage the training and vet care etc. They are so negative and critical. In fact I must ask him how they are with him and the dog.

I’ll have a look at the Stately Homes thread.

CraftyYankee, yes they definitely have the glow of self righteousness. I think instead of making them happy they are better than me they actually think their concern is helping me.

Grumpy, how do they respond to that?

Their background? They moved countries before having us so they had no local family support. This was in the days before mobiles and my grandparents didn’t have house phones so they had a phone call once a week. We used to visit my grandparents once a year for a week or two. As a kid I LOVED those visits. Actually though I must pick a good moment to ask my parents as they often seemed stressed and actually after the first few years we used to stay in a guesthouse as they said it was too much to stay with their own parents .

Oh god they sound grim.

You’re going to have to pretend that you’re your husband and they’re the kids. Tough boundaries. No exceptions. Don’t let them get away with a thing. Ignore what you’d ignore in a child - an attention-seeking sulk, for example. And shut down the rest.

‘No, they’re fine, they’re just weirdly obsessed with restaurant loos. Frankly it entertains them so I humour it. Now let’s talk about something more interesting.’

‘BUT THEY MIGHT BE SERIOUSLY ILL.’

‘You’re going to have to trust me to know when my children need medical attention. I’m not discussing it any more. Now let’s change the subject.’

It’s going to be seriously hard for you to be direct with them and you’ll probably get more sulks and flounces. These only affect you if you let them. (And are a lot harder to execute if you make them stay in a hotel, because how would you know they’re sulking two hours later if they’ve flounced off home?)

This will make you laugh... I’m a HCP, so is DH and my DM is a retired HCP. So the ‘they might be ill’ histeria is even more ridiculous . I like the idea of pretending.

Ha! Yes it makes it totally ridiculous!

It feels like they have a need to exploit any moment to show you how much you need them and their advice, but they only know how to do it in a negative way.

I sort of have the opposite problem, well I did. My children would tell me what I was doing wrong, disapprove of my choice of colours or whatever. I was so happy to have them home I put up with it but eventually I decided enough was enough and started saying, "Don't be rude" or "well you can have purple in your house, I'm having blue." It is amazing how quickly you can reset these things if you are just a bit assertive, don't have to be walked on or have a massive row just don't accept it.

Good luck.

How old are they, ish? It sounds like they're not so old and frail.

Can you tell them, straight out, to not be so ridiculous as to cry over boardgames?
Are you a family that just does not talk 'emotions' with your birth family? (Like mine!) What would happen if you did say that?

Yes absolutely any moment is open to scrutiny Jassy - I can never relax.

Interesting to hear ancientgran, how long did it take them to respond to you changing things?

TheSpottedZebra, they are 67 and 70. Yes, we never talk emotions! If I said that I think they would say one or all of the following:-
We are not being ridiculous
It upsets us to see the girls cry
We don’t want them upset while we are here. In fact something they say a lot is ‘this is supposed to be a happy time when we visit’
We are only worried for you

Then when the girls were in bed something like:-
They are so fragile at this age
They will be scared to do anything in case you tell them off (I’ve heard this one before)
You shouldn’t be upsetting them
It was silly to play that game
They are far too young for that

Then usually in loud whispers later things like:-
They will grow up in fear
They seemed so sad
This will damage them
Did you see how much they cried and they were just ignored

All of the last points above I have overheard .

My mum is similar to this. She once genuinely tried to push in between my husband and our daughter when he had taken her out of a gymnastics class where she was acting up. She kept shushing my husband and trying to sort of put her arms encircling DD in order to "protect her." My husband repeatedly had to raise his voice to be heard over the shushing and placating noises that my mum was making.

In the end my husband turned to her and said "Liz. Stop." Loudly so that it cut over her bizarre behaviour and carried on telling my DD off.

My mum then rang me FOUR times across the next 24 hours getting increasingly more hysterical including "He was SCREAMING at her! She's just a baby!" (she was 5!)

We repeatedly told her that she wasnt allowed to interfere in our parenting and that if she loved our DD so much and she considered her to be such a precious child then she didnt get that way in spite of our parenting, it was mostly due to the boundaries we've set.

Incidently one of the things that got my mum over the whole thing was me mentioning that I'd spoken to the gymnastics instructor (a retired primary headteacher) about the situation and she'd referred to my mum's behaviour as "a frankly ridiculous overreaction to normal parental discipline." I think it pulled my mum up short that other more 'adultier' adults than my husband and I also thought she was nuts.

Sounds like you need to be more consistent with the kids - the same discipline when your parents are visiting as when they aren't. You pussy-footing around is making your DH be the bad guy, and causing a bad relationship between him and your parents. You're putting your parents first, when your kids and DH should come first. You have to stop caring what your parents think. If they cry, or go for a lie down, call them out on it. Don't appease them.