It’s me again with the critical John Lewis obsessed parents who mean well

[TooStressyTooMessy]

Hi all,

I have posted about this before (pre-Covid) under a slightly different username.

I have two DDs, age 8 and 10. Married to DH and we have been together forever (to be clear he is the father of DDs).

I used to have a great (or so I thought) relationship with my parents until I had children. They mean well and absolutely adore our DDs. HOWEVER, I find being with them incredibly stressful. They live a few hours away so are not really involved in our day-to-day lives although we speak on the phone.

They very much want to be ‘fun’ grandparents and this is where the problems start. They think we are too strict, especially DH. They do not like any kind of discipline at all, eg if we told them to use a knife and fork at the table, not to rub off from the table, asked them to help us tidy their rooms, then my parents would view that as too strict. They do not like the children to cry or be sad when they visit or we visit them. I suppose they are Disney grandparents. That would be fine, that is the joy of being grandparents. Except if we tell the kids off for anything at all then my parents eye roll, tut, and often have to go and have a lie down because they get so upset to see a child upset. I really wish I was joking. We can never play a board game or anything like that with them as they become sad if DC lose and get upset.

I am absolutely not too strict and neither is DH although he is stricter than me. I have really struggled with discipline and did a parenting course when they were younger where I was told in no uncertain tones that I needed to be stricter. So I am by no means an ogre.

Basically they hate DH (loved him pre kids), think I am too strict and not capable of parenting, and think the children are growing up in a terrible environment. There is NO abuse. They really just do seem to think that setting boundaries and parenting, eg telling a child it is bedtime and asking them to turn off the telly, asking them not to run off in a busy street (ore-Covid) is cruel.

I got lots of advice on here and actually eventually stood up to them. Told them I was an adult, DH and I are the parents not them. We saw them one more time which was tense but ok and then Covid came.

Of course Covid itself has been truly horrific. But not having to see my parents has been wonderful .

They are coming up for a weekend in May when overnight stays are allowed. I am dreading it. I am already stressed and nagging DH to fix some stuff around the house which needs to be done before they come. I times my Dad one visit and it took him seconds to criticise something from walking in. So DH and I are arguing about it which is the usual way of things and makes me stressed before I have even seen them. He is also upset as it is obvious they do not like him.

They have already suggested us going to the nearest City for a John Lewis shopping trip. I have said no and my mum was surprised and disappointed. I have already said repeatedly that a busy town centre is not a relaxing environment when they will then want to take DDs in and be surprised they want to buy everything in sight. Let alone with the Covid situation - it is not a fun experience! They live not too far from London and can easily go to John Lewis there so I am not depriving them!

I realise this is an opportunity to move forward. It has been over a year since we saw them. I am desperate not to go back to feeling like a child desperate for their approval and them making it clear they think we are bad parents. They are not involved in my parenting usually so why do I feel on show so much when they do come?

TLDR: any tips on moving forward with a more adult relationship with my parents after the natural break of lockdown.

It might be easier when your DH is not there but that doesn't mean he is the problem.
It's easier because nobody is doing any parenting whatsoever. It's easier because your parents have total control.
Unless your DH is a Saint he won't put up with this forever, who would? They bitch about him and you back them up. If this were the other way around and it was your PILs slagging you off and he agreed with them and said that you were the problem, can you honestly say that you would not be unbelievably hurt and start to question why you were even with someone thought so little of you?

That you prioritize your (really rude) parents over your husband in this way is so so far from normal and healthy.

There is a lot of repetition and going around in circles in your posts.

Occasionally I read something that makes me think we are getting through to you... and then it feels like we're back to square one.

I actually feel quite angry on behalf of your husband. You are putting him and your marriage last. You are blaming him when the blame lies with your parents and YOURSELF for enabling them.

You're letting your husband and your children down massively. I agree with the PP who wisely pointed out that in some ways you are perpetuating the dysfunction by trying to control them and make them fall into line.

@AnotherEmma

There is a lot of repetition and going around in circles in your posts.

Occasionally I read something that makes me think we are getting through to you... and then it feels like we're back to square one.

I actually feel quite angry on behalf of your husband. You are putting him and your marriage last. You are blaming him when the blame lies with your parents and YOURSELF for enabling them.

You're letting your husband and your children down massively. I agree with the PP who wisely pointed out that in some ways you are perpetuating the dysfunction by trying to control them and make them fall into line.

I think she needs to get angry.

That may come. Often when parents like this are challenged then get even more twatty and it opens your eyes. Once you have really seen it and got angry it's easier to make progress.

I’m going to leave this thread for now I think but I want to say a huge thank you for ALL posts. I have read every single one and will be re-reading them and thinking. I do see I am letting everyone down . It has been hugely helpful to work though things and I have a long reading list now as well.

You're not letting anyone down. It's hard and a lot to take in.
Read Toxic Parents and the website out of the fog and have a real think about the dynamics currently playing out.
But most importantly, talk to your DH about this.

But most importantly, talk to your DH about this.

100% this

Wishing you the very best OP

Don't think of it as you letting everyone down; rather frame it as how the current situation is not working, and needs to change. Ideally in such a way that you and DH work together and form a stronger team

Remember OP it's likely that as soon as your parents walk in the door you revert to being the child you were when they -conditioned- taught you to be the child they wanted. You probably weren't allowed to be the child you actually were.

Be kind to the sad & fearful child in you.

The child that worked so hard (and works harder still) to earn their love. There may have been many 'tut's along the way to -surpress- teach you to be what they wanted without them actually verbalising any feelings whatsoever.

Remember it takes practice to hold on to the adult you whenever they are around. It's ok if you are only able to do this for a short time or even just in one interaction. Think of it as learning to walk again - there are so many times we fell over but with enough practice we all learn to walk in the end.

It might be helpful to look into Transactional Analysis - TA for Tots is a good easy starter to give you some quick tips & insight to counteract their parent to child comments with the hope of moving to a more adult to adult relationship.

"You're letting your husband and your children down massively."

I'm sorry, it was harsh of me to write that, but it was in response to your post when your wrote that they let you down (when your parents visit) - absolutely not, it's the other way around. That's the point I wanted to make, but I won't labour it any further.

This is a difficult and painful process, and I wish you all the best with it

Don’t worry, I haven’t flounced off and I don’t think any comments were harsh or undeserved. Except when it comes to my parents I am a big girl and have quite a thick skin . Just feels like the end of the thread for me as there is a huge amount to look into and think about .

If you don't feel it's useful to post here again, keep reading stately homes and post there if you need to.
Don't be afraid to start another thread either. This is hard and a lot to unpick. But you will get there.

It is a lot but you seem to be seeing things more clearly than you were.

Your girls will have matured over the last year and may have more attitude and your DP disappointed that they aren't such little children anymore.

It's hard to change a lifelong ingrained behaviour but you can get there.

I would be interested as to why your DH can't let the DC run wild around your parents seeing as though he surely can't carr what they think! Perhaps you could ask him? As well as the discussion around you changing things etc.

I would tell them that you are the parents and you will do as you see fit. Also, and particularly now, you are not raising children, you are raising adults.

We have seen so much of young adults expecting the world to bend at their will and it is not like that. If children cannot eat properly they wont be able to eat out with others or be invited out.

It is mad that they get mad when you tell your children off.

You sound like you are doing a great job!

I am known as no rules nanny ( I do have rules but just don’t sweat the little things) I hate to see my grand kids upset but I would never ignore the parents rules. I understand where the grandparents are coming from they don’t see the grandkids often and just want everything to be Disney happy. As for being rude to your husband they need to be told to be polite and put a smile on their faces or nor to bother coming. It’s difficult being a grandparent and a parent to adult kids but you need to get it right or you just end up with situations like this. There is always going to be situations where you think the parents are wrong and they think you are wrong but you just talk about it and get over it. I don’t know why people find it so difficult to talk about issues when they crop up you won’t always agree but you just need to find a middle ground and get on with it. Grandchildren are a blessing and good grandparents should be a help not a cause of aggro.

I think if you have given yourself a lot to think about having written this thread but feel anxious and unready for taking a different approach, that’s absolutely to be understood- so so so many people post here about something else and because we’re not embroiled.

we ask questions and have experienced either the same or know that what you’re going through is so so wrong because it’s alien to a happy family set up.

This is where you’re at.

It’s not the leap you thought it was going to be and it’s winded you a bit.

Please do what suits you and your family, if you’re not ready, you’re not ready.

One day you might be. Please don’t ever think you can’t come back and ask for our help again

We know what this stuff is like. We really do. We’re here for you and will be whenever you need it.

I think it bothers me what they think is because the atmosphere is so, so awful when we see them (the tutting, sighs, whispers, fussing, lying down etc) that I imagine if they actually could stop thinking we are terrible parents then we wouldn’t have to deal with that atmosphere each time. When they are not with me I can ignore it but when they are it is just horrific

Well that’s the core of the issue isn't it? This whole thread is about how YOU can make your husband and kids do what YOU want so your parents will approve of YOU.

What your husband wants doesn't matter to you. Your children’s welfare doesn't matter to you. All you care about is your parents’ opinion.

If only your husband and children were more obedient, your parents would say “ Well done darling @TooStressyTooMessy” and everything would be fine.

Expect it wouldn’t. They will never approve of you. Nothing you do will ever be good enough for them.

They ENJOY controlling you and your family by complaining and disapproving and creating all this drama. They LOVE it and they are not going to stop. It’s who they are and how they operate.

It’s how they make sure that EVERYONE is focussed on them and their feelings.

I’m sorry to tell you that they don't care in the slightest about your children . They care about being the centre of attention and if they acted like normal GP ( like your in laws) the attention would be on the kids.

To your parents, you, your Dh and your kids are the supporting actors in their drama, the walk on parts. You are not real people with feelings that matter. When you tell them how you feel, you might as well be speaking Mandarin - they can’t I understand a word you say. So it’s utterly pointless .

I’m not saying this to be mean. I understand how you’ve got here. But you need to stop participating in this drama right now, because you will end up destroying your marriage and teaching your children some very bad life lessons.

Please please get yourself some therapy. And make all visits days trips until you have done some serious therapeutic work and manage to set some appropriate boundaries.

I too feel sorry for your child they're his kids he can have rules of he wants. My grandad who was always soft had ago at my df once for telling us off. He just turned round and said if you ever tell me what to do with my children again you'll never see us again.
He was shocked but never said another word again

Not child dh

Ok, I wasn’t going to reply again on here (but have read the further posts and all useful) but...

GabsAlot, my immediate thoughts on that were that your DF was incredibly rude to say that to your grandad and appalling to threaten him with not seeing you. If I had been your DF my reaction would have been to instead decide they telling my kids off in front of him was not a thing I could / should do. I would immediately resolve not to tell you off in front of your grandad and find a workaround (eg try to tell you off out of earshot later, let the behaviour go, try to think of ways to avoid getting into that situation again).

Is that just showing that my reactions are screwed? I would always try to minimise conflict and would never invite it like that.

To be clear I am not saying that your father was rude at all, I just cannot imagine ever having the guts to say that sort of thing.

@TooStressyTooMessy

Ok, I wasn’t going to reply again on here (but have read the further posts and all useful) but...

GabsAlot, my immediate thoughts on that were that your DF was incredibly rude to say that to your grandad and appalling to threaten him with not seeing you. If I had been your DF my reaction would have been to instead decide they telling my kids off in front of him was not a thing I could / should do. I would immediately resolve not to tell you off in front of your grandad and find a workaround (eg try to tell you off out of earshot later, let the behaviour go, try to think of ways to avoid getting into that situation again).

Is that just showing that my reactions are screwed? I would always try to minimise conflict and would never invite it like that.

C'mon OP. You have had lots of good advice on here and then you post that?

"I would immediately resolve not to tell you off in front of your grandad and find a workaround (eg try to tell you off out of earshot later, let the behaviour go, try to think of ways to avoid getting into that situation again)."

It's almost as if you haven't read a single one of the replies.

Yes, this response shows that your reactions are absolutely screwed and I feel very sorry for your poor husband and children.

I’ve lurked but not posted and just wanted to say I don’t think GabsaLot’s DF was rude. He was just pointing out he would parent his child with rules. I think YOUR parents are incredibly rude to you and especially to your DH. They come into his home and cause stress and upset and criticise him. Their behaviour and expectations are ridiculous. All children need boundaries. And it’s not hurting them to have boundaries. All hell breaks lose when your parents are around because you give up parenting and your DH has to do the parenting.

I know the thread is hitting some nerves for you but please keep posting. There is some great advice.

My Dad said something to his PIL about him and Mum raising us they way they felt right because PIL were heavily into favouritism amongst my Mum and siblings.

I wouldn't threaten to cut off but I would happily point out that our rules around x y z stand. Ultimately I would go no contact if grandparents were behaving like your parents and no amount of direct words were making a difference.

OP, you have said:

"my immediate thoughts on that were that your DF was incredibly rude"

and then a minute later:

"To be clear I am not saying that your father was rude at all,"

Which is it?