It’s me again with the critical John Lewis obsessed parents who mean well

[TooStressyTooMessy]

Hi all,

I have posted about this before (pre-Covid) under a slightly different username.

I have two DDs, age 8 and 10. Married to DH and we have been together forever (to be clear he is the father of DDs).

I used to have a great (or so I thought) relationship with my parents until I had children. They mean well and absolutely adore our DDs. HOWEVER, I find being with them incredibly stressful. They live a few hours away so are not really involved in our day-to-day lives although we speak on the phone.

They very much want to be ‘fun’ grandparents and this is where the problems start. They think we are too strict, especially DH. They do not like any kind of discipline at all, eg if we told them to use a knife and fork at the table, not to rub off from the table, asked them to help us tidy their rooms, then my parents would view that as too strict. They do not like the children to cry or be sad when they visit or we visit them. I suppose they are Disney grandparents. That would be fine, that is the joy of being grandparents. Except if we tell the kids off for anything at all then my parents eye roll, tut, and often have to go and have a lie down because they get so upset to see a child upset. I really wish I was joking. We can never play a board game or anything like that with them as they become sad if DC lose and get upset.

I am absolutely not too strict and neither is DH although he is stricter than me. I have really struggled with discipline and did a parenting course when they were younger where I was told in no uncertain tones that I needed to be stricter. So I am by no means an ogre.

Basically they hate DH (loved him pre kids), think I am too strict and not capable of parenting, and think the children are growing up in a terrible environment. There is NO abuse. They really just do seem to think that setting boundaries and parenting, eg telling a child it is bedtime and asking them to turn off the telly, asking them not to run off in a busy street (ore-Covid) is cruel.

I got lots of advice on here and actually eventually stood up to them. Told them I was an adult, DH and I are the parents not them. We saw them one more time which was tense but ok and then Covid came.

Of course Covid itself has been truly horrific. But not having to see my parents has been wonderful .

They are coming up for a weekend in May when overnight stays are allowed. I am dreading it. I am already stressed and nagging DH to fix some stuff around the house which needs to be done before they come. I times my Dad one visit and it took him seconds to criticise something from walking in. So DH and I are arguing about it which is the usual way of things and makes me stressed before I have even seen them. He is also upset as it is obvious they do not like him.

They have already suggested us going to the nearest City for a John Lewis shopping trip. I have said no and my mum was surprised and disappointed. I have already said repeatedly that a busy town centre is not a relaxing environment when they will then want to take DDs in and be surprised they want to buy everything in sight. Let alone with the Covid situation - it is not a fun experience! They live not too far from London and can easily go to John Lewis there so I am not depriving them!

I realise this is an opportunity to move forward. It has been over a year since we saw them. I am desperate not to go back to feeling like a child desperate for their approval and them making it clear they think we are bad parents. They are not involved in my parenting usually so why do I feel on show so much when they do come?

TLDR: any tips on moving forward with a more adult relationship with my parents after the natural break of lockdown.

Just thought of another example: bike riding.

DD1 likes bike riding and will go out with DH. Apparently we should be careful she doesn’t get too tired as this could be bad for her. Err, exercise is GOOD, she wants to do it and it’s not as if we are making her do a 24hour cycle ride.
DD2 still hasn’t really got the knack (whole other thread!) and doesn’t really like it. Riding a bike is a life skill so every so often we encourage her to have a go. If she really doesn’t want to we don’t as the whole thing is just torture. According to my parents we shouldn’t be even encouraging her as she might get too upset. If she is upset we don’t do it. How is she ever going to learn if we never even try though . It’s as if they see the very normal downsides and difficulties of parenting as major catastrophes.

You keep saying your DH is too strict but that's a direct reaction to you bowing to your parents.

If the roles were reversed you'd be advised to leave him. You could kill your marriage if this continues.

I would suggest counselling for yourself. You need to assert your own boundaries and fast.

Also, the day trip thing is fine. You are the parents. They aren't doing your kids any favours so I'd be scaling back on the visits for your children.

Gosh this upcoming visit sounds grim , how far apart do you and your parents live ? , I would suggest under 200 miles you meet in the middle for a day trip , keep it short and sweet, leave home at 8 meet at around 10 , leave at around 4 home by 6 gives you 6 hours together, avoids board games etc , look for an activity such as a day at a zoo, castle etc gives you all something to look at and takes the pressure off of having sitting still conversations
over 200 miles you or they stay in a local hotel , gives you all a bit of space to get away from each other and keep the trip to short and sweet , 2 days is more than enough to get through ,
Both of these gives no room for them to flounce off to their room to lie down

Seriously keep it short , life is short enough without you spending weeks agonising over them coming to visit you

Other random ideas -

When they criticise anything about your house pull them up short , either you like it as it is or it's of no consequence to you that it is like that or due to Covid you haven't had time / unable to get materials / wanted workmen in / cannot afford to repair just now

Covid contact scare through work/ school and you are waiting for results ie isolating as a family so the visit has to be cancelled

You and your DH sound great , don't let your parents bully you

Kakiste oh my goodness that is scarily familiar. My mum is exactly the same. The shushing, the protecting, everything you wrote. Maybe I need a more adultier adult to have a word .

crazylikechocolate it is about 125 miles but that includes the M25 so not the easiest drive once you get to London and traffic can be difficult. We used to do it in a day (pre kids) but it just got too much. It can easily take 3-4 hours in the car depending on traffic. 2.5 hours is possible but doesn’t usually happen. I do like the Covid scare idea .

Neil, I suppose I can’t see why he just can’t play along for a couple of days to keep everyone happy but I can see that it must be incredibly annoying to be on the other side. He doesn’t care what they think of him which drives me mad as I care desperately what they think of us. I’m a total people pleaser.

@TooStressyTooMessy

Yes absolutely any moment is open to scrutiny Jassy - I can never relax.

Interesting to hear ancientgran, how long did it take them to respond to you changing things?

TheSpottedZebra, they are 67 and 70. Yes, we never talk emotions! If I said that I think they would say one or all of the following:-
We are not being ridiculous
It upsets us to see the girls cry
We don’t want them upset while we are here. In fact something they say a lot is ‘this is supposed to be a happy time when we visit’
We are only worried for you

Then when the girls were in bed something like:-
They are so fragile at this age
They will be scared to do anything in case you tell them off (I’ve heard this one before)
You shouldn’t be upsetting them
It was silly to play that game
They are far too young for that

Then usually in loud whispers later things like:-
They will grow up in fear
They seemed so sad
This will damage them
Did you see how much they cried and they were just ignored

All of the last points above I have overheard .

They actually responded very quickly. The first time I did it was when I was giving them a lift, for some reason there was always a critique of my driving. So they wanted a lift into town for a night out, they didn't want to drive. Usual starts, why are you still in second, it's 40 mph here you know not 30 etc etc etc. I asked them if they wanted to walk, told them I'd had a clean driving licence for longer than they'd been alive and if they wanted a lift stop the moaning. DS immediately said fair enough, DD sulked a bit. Neither have ever said anything about my driving again.

I only had to do that sort of thing once or twice with each of them and it drastically reduced. Some slip ups but it was amazing how quickly it worked and very little resentment. I just regret I let it get out of hand.

I don't know if it would be the same but it is worth a try. Good luck.

That gives me some hope. I have spoken to them twice about it, once as I described earlier in the thread and actually once years ago when I lost my shit at them. Had forgotten that. Repressed it probably! Maybe it will be third time lucky .

I think once this sort of dynamic starts it will not resolve til someone puts their foot down. My parents used to do this. I told them it was not ok and I would not be spending time with them until they kept their opinions to themselves. It was not comfortable, but until you set a limit, it will keep happening. You might tell them that you love them, want them to spend time with your family and you dont want to get to the stage that they cannot stay in your house, but unless they stop this is what will happen. And then I would tell them exactly what the behaviour is that needs to stop.

Don't have them come stay over ! It's your house and you do what you want. It's already causing you so much anxiety and for what.

@TooStressyTooMessy I had a really difficult MIL (maybe that's where the kids got it from.) From my experience I'd suggest this:

Try to get a plan with DH, so you agree not to back down on discipline and he agrees not to ramp it up, maybe agree if there are a few things that could be relaxed a bit just for the visit e.g. letting them leave the table if they are finished, obviously children expected to be polite about it.

Try to treat some of it as a joke e.g. if they suggest it is too tiring for an 8 year old to have a go at riding a bike just laugh and say how much energy she has.

If you dad is rude then tell him, like I did with my kids just point out that it is rude and you would never be like that in his house.

It all sounds very fear-based with them. Are they worried about stuff generally? Are they coping with daily life, able to keep up with things?

Reading more posts it actually sounds very toxic and unhealthy for the kids to be around them at all.
I would feel inclined to go lowest possible contact with them, they can take the kids alone and do stuff

Thanks everyone, lots to think about.

Yes, it is hugely fear based. They are both anxious people. I think they think children are fragile and easily damaged.

Day to day they are ok, their own relationship with each other is not great and I really fear for the future with them. Interestingly they have been fine with Covid and not overly anxious at all. Just a realistic concern about it. They basically spent their whole lives preparing for bad things to happen. When something did (Covid) they were ready! They have just got on with things and seem far less anxious now there is a real threat IYSWIM.

Babygotblueeyes did you have the conversation over the phone or in person? Realistically I will have to have a difficult conversation before they come.

I have already had the conversation you described and they did improve slightly, I am just absolutely dreading having to have it again. Especially over the telephone where I will have to either have an awkward speakerphone conversation or have it twice.

Why should your husband appease your loopy parents? It’s bad enough that you tie yourself in knots, why should he collude as well? Seems like his behaviour is healthier than yours!

I think I remember your previous post.

Are they are obsessed with going shopping when they come to visit you and other activities the DC don't enjoy and get angry with you about EVERYTHING???

Don't stay with them when you go there, find an air B&B or Travelodge! Actually better still drop the DC with them and have a couple of nights just the two of you and deal strictly with the DC behaviour fall out with you afterwards. The DC will accept when back with you that "proper" rules and discipline apply!

They're a nightmare.

RandomMess yep that’s me

I hope you are affirming to your brother that he seems to be doing a great job with his puppy!

You need to practice the "nope that doesn't work for us"

Your kids are a year older - I wouldn't expect 8 and 10 year olds to need much hands-on supervision nor to cry if they lose at board games....maybe time will be the great healer here?

@RandomMess

I hope you are affirming to your brother that he seems to be doing a great job with his puppy!

I just came back to post the same! Definitely tell your brother he is doing great, he hasn't got a partner to help dilute your parents.

A pp has said it but I've only learnt it since being on MN. We are not responsible for other adult's happiness, I've found this liberating.

@dotoallasyouwouldbedoneby

Your kids are a year older - I wouldn't expect 8 and 10 year olds to need much hands-on supervision nor to cry if they lose at board games....maybe time will be the great healer here?

As the child in such a situation my siblings and I regressed when we were with our grandparents, tension is contagious.

OP, I don't want to be too harsh as you really do appear to be struggling with this but if my DH insisted on bringing into my home 2 people who actively disliked me, criticised my home and my parenting and made my life very difficult while there I would leave. I quite simply wouldn't be there. I would go to my mums for a few days, or a hotel, or a friends. And I would seriously consider my relationship with him.

He is quite frankly being a Saint to allow them in his home and also agree to visit them I theirs.

You are also unreasonable to abdicate all your parenting responsibilities forcing him to do twice the amount. Ditto, the expecting him to slap a smile on his face and put up and shut up.

Is he also expected to trail around on the shopping trips?

You do have options. Fir future visits definitely insist on an air bnb or hotel, keep them short and insist if they want trips out they do them with just the dc's who are more than old enough for 1 to 1 with their grandparents. And if they complain, tough. You can clearly tell them things obviously aren't working the old way so you need to find new ways if you want to carry on a relationship with them.

Thanks for the prompt both of you, I have just messaged him to say that and will give him a ring at the weekend.

I do have some hope that time will have helped. Especially with DD1 - she is certainly not a little kid anymore at 10.

I really can’t answer that Comtesse, I suppose because it just invites conflict not to appease them. I just think it would be easier to do what they want .

I will practice my sayings .

Might have been suggested before (its a long thread) but the girls are a year older and might behave better now than they did before.

Have you thought about bribing them? I know its not great but desperate measures and all.

Monr0e, I deserve the harshness. He is only dragged on the shopping because he insists on coming. I would happily go with just DC and my parents and so would my parents. I have suggested many a time that he stay home. He views this as a personal insult and of course my parents also imply they want to see him (they don’t really). I struggle to understand this because if he and my in-laws (who I love) wanted to take the kids out on their own I would have no problem with that at all. Frankly after the amount of homeschooling and time I’ve spent parenting with Covid I would be on the sofa binge watching Netflix in my PJs. What annoys me is he is being given the option not to come and basically to have a day off. I would LOVE that! Plus I don’t expect him to do all the parenting, I want us. It’s to back off and do very little just while my parents are here. Especially as the tension is indeed contagious so the girls are likely to behave badly. I do realise I am being completely unreasonable though and I won’t (and haven’t) mention him staying at home on this trip.