We never married

[Pearlsawinger]

DP and I have been together 10 years and have 2 DCs.
I became unexpectedly pregnant with DC1, just as we were discussing marriage, so we postponed our plans for when DC1 was a little older.
I then had PND, there was a huge family argument and we delayed getting married again.
Then we needed to spend a lot of money on construction work on the house and again, any wedding was delayed.
After this, I discovered I had endometriosis and told that it would be affecting my fertility; we both wanted another child and sibling for DC1 so decided to have another baby sooner rather than later.
As marriage has always been a plan, both DCs have DPs surname, as I was going to take it too, but obviously, it hasn't happened. I hate having a different name to my DCs, I get very upset about it.
DP is now saying that there is "no point" in marriage. DC2 is now 3 years old and h3 says that it wouldn't make any difference now and that provided we have joint life insurance, joint finances etc, we're covered if something happens to the other one.

I'm not IN love with him anymore and find myself wondering if I would really want to marry him anyway... but I know that marriage and the security of marriage is still important to me. I am also concerned that, as I've worked part-time whilst both DCs were very young, it has impacted my pension and I'll never have any rights to claim some of his due to lack of marriage. He is from an affluent family, I am from a poor family and I can see that, if we end up separating later on, I'll be quite poor when I retire whilst he will have a good pension and be in a good financial position from his inheritance etc. I'm wondering whether to cut my losses now?

What should I do?

@endofthelinefinally

Looking after small children is hard and valuable work, no matter who does it. I hate this attitude that if a parent does it they are lazy and opting out. of their responsibility to earn money. Good quality child care is expensive. Are some people honestly saying that caring for one's own small children is worthless and lazy?

There's nothing wrong with staying home to raise children, but it's a big risk to take if you're not married and have no way of supporting yourself if it goes wrong.

Why don’t you say to him what you have said on here, that you are thinking of cutting your losses as being unmarried is leaving you in a vulnerable position financially.
See what solutions he can offer up.

[quote Pearlsawinger]@endofthelinefinally Unfortunately, it is common soap-box territory on MN to not value the role of the Mother in looking after children who are under 5.

Many women have jumped on the patriachal, capitalist bandwagon much to the delight of the men at the top. Many brainwashed women here who will outwardly attack women for choosing to be with their children.

The problem isnt the choices women make, but society's lack of value for the role that women play in pregnancy, breastfeeding and Mothering young children.

This has left me in a vulnerable position as many will now hound on me here to remind me, but through choice.

My problem is what I decide to do next, now that my children are what I deem, old enough, for me to return to FT work.[/quote]
What a nasty and condescending post. Lots of people (including me) think that staying home and raising children is a perfectly valid choice if you want to make it. I don’t, however, admire people who do that at the expense of their children’s financial security. Or people who make sneering and nasty comments indicating that anyone who thinks differently to them is brainwashed. Do what you like, I don’t really care. You sound absolutely horrible.

[quote Pearlsawinger]@endofthelinefinally Unfortunately, it is common soap-box territory on MN to not value the role of the Mother in looking after children who are under 5.

Many women have jumped on the patriachal, capitalist bandwagon much to the delight of the men at the top. Many brainwashed women here who will outwardly attack women for choosing to be with their children.

The problem isnt the choices women make, but society's lack of value for the role that women play in pregnancy, breastfeeding and Mothering young children.

This has left me in a vulnerable position as many will now hound on me here to remind me, but through choice.

My problem is what I decide to do next, now that my children are what I deem, old enough, for me to return to FT work.[/quote]
Yea you've been really stupid and you also sound like a condescending sneery horrible person.

I think you need to discuss with him the possibility of him going part time and you working full time to enable you to become financially more stable and to plan for your future. If he's not happy with this, then he doesn't have your best interests at heart.

[quote Pearlsawinger]@endofthelinefinally Unfortunately, it is common soap-box territory on MN to not value the role of the Mother in looking after children who are under 5.

Many women have jumped on the patriachal, capitalist bandwagon much to the delight of the men at the top. Many brainwashed women here who will outwardly attack women for choosing to be with their children.

The problem isnt the choices women make, but society's lack of value for the role that women play in pregnancy, breastfeeding and Mothering young children.

This has left me in a vulnerable position as many will now hound on me here to remind me, but through choice.

My problem is what I decide to do next, now that my children are what I deem, old enough, for me to return to FT work.[/quote]
You're taking your anger out at the wrong people, OP. You've posted for advice and been given it. You don't like it that your role in orchestrating this mess is partly of your own doing.

It's not that society doesn't value women's role in child-rearing, just that they expect the partners of those children to also value this and contribute to paying for their choices. We all have to, many of us struggle/have struggled and your posts are really quite rude to posters sympathising with you and trying to help.

You've had brilliant advice from other posters, hope it all works out for you.

@Lordamighty

Why don’t you say to him what you have said on here, that you are thinking of cutting your losses as being unmarried is leaving you in a vulnerable position financially. See what solutions he can offer up.

And the problem with this, is he could just go "fine, leave then" and OP is left up shit creek.

She has no income of her own, no job - where would she go?

I have RTFT, though not all one one go. I want to note the number of posters who have said OP doesn’t love him any more, whereas what she actually said is that she isn’t IN love with him.

There’s a difference.

Some people say they are still IN love with their partner after 10, 20, 30 years etc - well, that’s great for them. There are plenty of others who have perfectly good marriages which they are quite happy in, but without the overwhelming feeling of being in love.

We’ve been married 20 years. I love him - and tell him so frequently. Am I IN love with him? I get a flash of it now and then - I remember why I fell for him. But a lot of the time, we just get on with living our lives - our couple life and our individual lives. And I think an awful lot of long-standing couples are much the same.

The trend towards living together means that most couples getting married have been together for a good number of years, rather than the 2-3 years which used to be the norm. Plenty of time for the first heat of passion and infatuation to fade. That doesn’t automatically mean there is nothing of value left.

So I suppose my question to OP would be - you’ve said you’re not IN love with him - but do you love him?

I agree there is a lot of vulnerability but OP's partner is probably looking towards them spending their lives together, sitting in the old folks home complaining about youngsters today and sharing the false teeth (my parents actually did this when dad broke his yuk).

If she still loves him (as opposed to being 'in love starry eyed and full of passion') it may be a lifetime of raising their family, holidays etc lies ahead. Now though 'he put marge on the toast instead of butter' is reason enough to walk away.

I knew the risks at the time and chose to take them anyway, I would still make those same choices now due to the demanding nature of my field of work and because of my values around Mothering and family life. I would appreciate it if posters could respect the choices I made within their responses.

You knew the risks, took them anyway and yet have not accepted the consequences of the risk you chose to take. He doesn’t want to get married, you traded in any leverage you might have had when you decided to prioritise other things over getting married.

I don’t believe in the institution myself but your situation is exactly why you should prioritise it if it’s something that you want.

@BigFatLiar

I agree there is a lot of vulnerability but OP's partner is probably looking towards them spending their lives together, sitting in the old folks home complaining about youngsters today and sharing the false teeth (my parents actually did this when dad broke his yuk).

If she still loves him (as opposed to being 'in love starry eyed and full of passion') it may be a lifetime of raising their family, holidays etc lies ahead. Now though 'he put marge on the toast instead of butter' is reason enough to walk away.

If that were the case there would be no reason for OP's post. Her first one highlights the concern over her financial situation... and not without grounds, it's terrifying really.

I don't believe in marriage much, I think it's outdated but, I have children and married beforehand because I know the pitfalls, they're on this board time and time again. Unless women have independent means of support then marriage before children is the only way to protect mothers.

[quote Pearlsawinger]@endofthelinefinally Unfortunately, it is common soap-box territory on MN to not value the role of the Mother in looking after children who are under 5.

Many women have jumped on the patriachal, capitalist bandwagon much to the delight of the men at the top. Many brainwashed women here who will outwardly attack women for choosing to be with their children.

The problem isnt the choices women make, but society's lack of value for the role that women play in pregnancy, breastfeeding and Mothering young children.

This has left me in a vulnerable position as many will now hound on me here to remind me, but through choice.

My problem is what I decide to do next, now that my children are what I deem, old enough, for me to return to FT work.[/quote]
Wow, so many people offered you good advice and tried to help you. You can 'mother' (or god, another corrupted verb, like gifted or borrow for lend) in all sorts of fashions.

You chose to do so in a way that compromises you financially big time and you continue to chose to do so because this man will not marry you.

Crack on then.

@PuzzledObserver

I have RTFT, though not all one one go. I want to note the number of posters who have said OP doesn’t love him any more, whereas what she actually said is that she isn’t IN love with him.

There’s a difference.

Some people say they are still IN love with their partner after 10, 20, 30 years etc - well, that’s great for them. There are plenty of others who have perfectly good marriages which they are quite happy in, but without the overwhelming feeling of being in love.

We’ve been married 20 years. I love him - and tell him so frequently. Am I IN love with him? I get a flash of it now and then - I remember why I fell for him. But a lot of the time, we just get on with living our lives - our couple life and our individual lives. And I think an awful lot of long-standing couples are much the same.

The trend towards living together means that most couples getting married have been together for a good number of years, rather than the 2-3 years which used to be the norm. Plenty of time for the first heat of passion and infatuation to fade. That doesn’t automatically mean there is nothing of value left.

So I suppose my question to OP would be - you’ve said you’re not IN love with him - but do you love him?

From the sounds of it, she's in love/loves 'Mothering' with a capital 'M', whatever that is, more than anything and it's those who don't worship at its alter who are 'brainwashed by the patriarchy (oh, the irony!). Not really sure why the thread, tbh.

@BigFatLiar

I agree there is a lot of vulnerability but OP's partner is probably looking towards them spending their lives together, sitting in the old folks home complaining about youngsters today and sharing the false teeth (my parents actually did this when dad broke his yuk).

If she still loves him (as opposed to being 'in love starry eyed and full of passion') it may be a lifetime of raising their family, holidays etc lies ahead. Now though 'he put marge on the toast instead of butter' is reason enough to walk away.

OP wouldn't have posted at all if she had no worries about their future.