We never married

[Pearlsawinger]

DP and I have been together 10 years and have 2 DCs.
I became unexpectedly pregnant with DC1, just as we were discussing marriage, so we postponed our plans for when DC1 was a little older.
I then had PND, there was a huge family argument and we delayed getting married again.
Then we needed to spend a lot of money on construction work on the house and again, any wedding was delayed.
After this, I discovered I had endometriosis and told that it would be affecting my fertility; we both wanted another child and sibling for DC1 so decided to have another baby sooner rather than later.
As marriage has always been a plan, both DCs have DPs surname, as I was going to take it too, but obviously, it hasn't happened. I hate having a different name to my DCs, I get very upset about it.
DP is now saying that there is "no point" in marriage. DC2 is now 3 years old and h3 says that it wouldn't make any difference now and that provided we have joint life insurance, joint finances etc, we're covered if something happens to the other one.

I'm not IN love with him anymore and find myself wondering if I would really want to marry him anyway... but I know that marriage and the security of marriage is still important to me. I am also concerned that, as I've worked part-time whilst both DCs were very young, it has impacted my pension and I'll never have any rights to claim some of his due to lack of marriage. He is from an affluent family, I am from a poor family and I can see that, if we end up separating later on, I'll be quite poor when I retire whilst he will have a good pension and be in a good financial position from his inheritance etc. I'm wondering whether to cut my losses now?

What should I do?

Boyfriend sorry

@Inthesameboatatmo

Speak to lawyer As you have been living as husband and wife for that amount of time there are certain rights in place now Good luck

And what rights would they be precisely?

You need to make the fact that you aren't married a problem for HIM - not just you.

So yes. Full time work. Because you have no marriage protection and you've taken the childcare hit so far, which, if you split up, will mean that you have fewer assets than him and no right to pension, etc.

He can't handle it and will be even more like a 'bear with a sore head' at the thought of LOADS AND LOADS of having to do HIS bit/cut HIS hours to cover childcare for a change? Well then agree to marry, and then we can work as a team again. Right now, I have to protect myself.

Simple. As long as you keep handing him the benefits of being married, he'll take them. Withdraw them until you also benefit.

@Pearlsawinger

It was absolutely 100% my choice to work part-time *@sunflowersandbuttercups*. There is absolutely nothing degrading or invaluable about being around to raise my young children. I would take rhe financial hit time and time again to have this sacred time with my kids. My second child of whom was breastfed until 2.5 years, so I place a huge amount of value on the mother being at home. I could go into the ins and outs of all this, the literature I've read, the maternal movements I've been a part of, but I really do not want to go there, as stated very clearly at the start of this thread.

I am very sorry for you that you are in this precarious position OP, it must be very worrying for you now that you realise that you have precious few rights in how this will go now.

You unfortunately don't have the luxury of staying at home, not if you're going to put yourself on a sound financial footing - and this is something that would be valuable for your children to see you do. Lots of mothers work outside the home and there's no shame at all in that.

You don't have the support of your partner now and for your children's sake, I think you need to accept that and start making plans for your independence - financially and emotionally - as he's made his position very clear; he will not marry you. You don't love him anyway so there's no real basis for a marriage. In any event, all of the power is his as he has no legal ties to you.

What did your solicitor advise you to do?

I was in a similar situation. However, we had life insurance, I was named as beneficiary of his pension, wills in place. We discussed marriage early on, but never got round to it, and I always felt he wasn't bothered. In the end I gave him an ultimatum and meant it. Either we get married or I leave. It was affecting my feelings for him, and I felt as if he didn't care enough to marry me. Some might think an ultimatum was a risky strategy, but I was fully prepared to walk. We married less than a year later, been together over 30 years.
I think amongst our social circle, it was not seen as very cool to get married, but living together without the protection of marriage was making me feel very insecure. It was important to me, and I felt that he should recognise how important it was.

The big problem with being named in wills and as the beneficiary of pensions and insurances is that it can be changed.

It can be changed on Monday if the other person so chooses. And in the case of one person I know, without you even knowing.

You don't love him. Don't marry the poor guy.

And of course, it's absolutely fine not to marry. Except if one person's jacked in their financial security.

As for life insurance and wills, anyone can change those at their own initiative if not married.

Just remember that people can change wills without your knowledge, and they can change beneficiaries too.
You need to have your own bank account and save.

And you absolutely should have a private pension.
Working full time would be better for your pension. If he struggles then that’s his fault, you need to protect your financial future for yourself and your children.

If you want to get married then keep asking him. To my mind your issue is why he doesn't want to get married more than why you do want to.
He may be afraid of having to contact his family, have a party or even be afraid of having to make a speech. If his family are a shitshow in terms of communication and relationships, the thoughts of involving them in his life may be daunting.
It may not be the actual 'act' of being married, it may be fears about a wedding that is scaring him. So try to tease that out. With Covid it'd be much easier to have a quiet trip to the Registry office with 2 witnesses.

Apart from the fact that you could have got married at any time to make yourself more financially secure, i really don't understand why you're not making it a priority now.

In your place i would have married immediately after the first DC - but then I've never been into the huge deal that lots of people make out of it. So I'm aware that other people have different views.

But not to be married to someone but to work part time, to have 2 children under the current laws? it's madness.

@sadie9

If you want to get married then keep asking him. To my mind your issue is why he doesn't want to get married more than why you do want to. He may be afraid of having to contact his family, have a party or even be afraid of having to make a speech. If his family are a shitshow in terms of communication and relationships, the thoughts of involving them in his life may be daunting. It may not be the actual 'act' of being married, it may be fears about a wedding that is scaring him. So try to tease that out. With Covid it'd be much easier to have a quiet trip to the Registry office with 2 witnesses.

She's said she's not in love with him. That'll be why he doesn't want to get married!!!!

Why do women keep doing this.

I'm not IN love with him anymore and find myself wondering if I would really want to marry him anyway.

Sort this out first. Do you not love him or are you just going through a patch? No point marrying if you don't love him and intend to spend your lives together. Wait until you know how you feel or is the relationship unsalvageable?

DP is now saying that there is "no point" in marriage. DC2 is now 3 years old and h3 says that it wouldn't make any difference now and that provided we have joint life insurance, joint finances etc, we're covered if something happens to the other one.

If you do love him and want to spend your lives together point out to him that it does make a difference to you. If you don't just go.

if we end up separating later on, I'll be quite poor when I retire whilst he will have a good pension and be in a good financial position from his inheritance etc.

His family could leave it all to charity. He could get run over by a bus. We don't know what the future holds. Doesn't mean stop planning for the future but perhaps don't focus on something that may not happen.

I am also concerned about the tension that both of us working FT will create for family life going forward. Another reason I'm wondering whether to cut my losses. DP is already like a bear with a sore head due to the weight of his own work. I'm not sure how HE will cope with us both working FT, nevermind the DCs.

He may be ok with it, have you raised it? With you working full time and sharing the financial burden maybe he won’t have to work so hard.

@TatianaBis

Why do women keep doing this.

I wonder this as well.

I'Ve changed my mind. OP leave him. Set up home with your children and split their time between the pair of you 50/50. Your choice if you work part or full-time.

Your DP knows what he's doing. What is the point in staying?

As I see it, OP, there are basically three options.

You start by having a conversation in which you explain to him that, even though you have joint mortgage and life insurance etc, you, and by extension the children, are in a vulnerable position with you being the lower earner. He has been able to build up pension and other savings, you haven’t. And while you have loved and valued every minute of your time with your children, financially speaking you are much worse off than you would have been than if you had continued to work full time and used paid child care.

There are two ways to remedy that. One is to get married and the other is for him to pay into a pension scheme and/or savings in your name, to make up for some of what was lost.

If he doesn’t want to, or “see the need to” do either of those, that suggests he doesn’t see himself staying with you. Because if he did, it wouldn’t matter that he was effectively giving you some of his assets, he would be confident of still having access to them.

That’s how it has been between me and DH - he inherited a decent balance from his parents, and it was invested with a discretionary portfolio manager. Each year, the manager transferred the maximum amount into an ISA in each of our names. Half of DH’s inheritance is now “mine” - but since we are married, it makes no difference. It’s all family money, we access it when we need it. And if we were to divorce, it would all go in one pot and be divided anyway, irrespective of whose name was on the account.

If your partner is not willing to either marry you or put assets in your name to even up the playing field, then the third option comes into play. The relationship is doomed - you are no longer partners, you are FWB (presumably) co-parenting your children while living in the same house.

Up to you whether you want to continue that arrangement or move to living separately from him, but either way you will need to see to your financial security yourself.

OP has said she is not "in love" not that she does not love him or would otherwise be looking to leave. I think it's not uncommon for a couple with two small children (nevermind an epidemic) to not feel "in love" on a regular basis. It might get better, or worse.
Would the dp be interested in a marriage that didn't involve the large wedding he is probably imagining? Covid gives the perfect excuse to keep things lower key, and a lovely day could still be had with their dc and a few close relatives or friends for very little money.

Marriage is not all about love, so to people questioning why OP wants to get married but doesn't love her DP - maybe she wants to provide her children with a stable family life but doesn't want to further invest her time and effort without the security of marriage. It's completely valid to want this despite not loving her DP, they have children together.

OP decide whether you want to continue with DP or not. If you do, do so on the basis that either you will get married asap or you start looking after your own financial future. Which means your DP stepping up and supporting you to go back to work FT, build your pension, your own savings, doing his full share of housework, childcare.

This is what he wants so he needs to start putting in, he cant build his own financial future off the back of your sacrifices, whilst giving you lip service about everything being equal because it isn't. His earning power and pension for a start.

That’s how it has been between me and DH - he inherited a decent balance from his parents, and it was invested with a discretionary portfolio manager. Each year, the manager transferred the maximum amount into an ISA in each of our names. Half of DH’s inheritance is now “mine” - but since we are married, it makes no difference. It’s all family money, we access it when we need it. And if we were to divorce, it would all go in one pot and be divided anyway, irrespective of whose name was on the account.

Mumsnet will tell you that your DH is a mug. Inheritances (certainly from a womans viewpoint) should be seen as yours and not joint.

(We're both mugs as well from that viewpoint as everything is simply 'ours')

The reason I'm concerned about how me working FT affects him is because that subsequently affects me. Getting him to take on 50% of the mental load consistently isn't going to happen, no matter how many times it's discussed. We've been there, tried it, doesn't happen.

Hence the thread.
I'm working out if I've enough justification to leave him in the circumstances we're in, in balance against splitting the family unit and hurting the DCs.

Men with DC and a partner who works PT or SAH who say there’s ‘no point’ in getting married really mean ‘I don’t want to share any money/assets in the event of divorce unless I call the shots, and would be happy for my ex and DC to be in financial difficulty’

Marriage is not all about love, so to people questioning why OP wants to get married but doesn't love her DP - maybe she wants to provide her children with a stable family life but doesn't want to further invest her time and effort without the security of marriage. It's completely valid to want this despite not loving her DP, they have children together.

You're right, but it's a bit late for that now. He doesn't want to get married, so OP needs to do all she can to protect her own interests going forward.

Have you spoken to him about how feel about marriage? Marriage means a lot, financially and legally but also emotionally as well. I like being married (note the I) it makes me feel like a team.

On the not ‘in’ love comment, it is hard to say that the relationship is dead or just gong through a low point. There have definitely been times in my 23 year relationship when I felt like that and my kids were around the same age as yours now. They are 17 and 15 now and totally smitten again. Only you can really tell where your relationship it.