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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What a mess. Just a really, really rubbish situation

434 replies

AnonymousMamaof2 · 26/03/2021 21:12

Ok, so I need to do some scene setting first.

DH and I met whilst working in Birmingham (we just worked there, no family connections whatsoever to the place). We had our child there but always knew we didn't want to raise a family in the city. Shortly after DC1 we made the decision to leave and move to the area where I grew up (which is nowhere near where my DH is from and he has zero connections here). He was driving the move more than I was, saying it would be a nicer area to bring up kids (which it is, it's amazing: rural, beautiful, near very supportive grandparents who look after the kids 3x a week etc).

I had been doing well in my career and I am the main breadwinner. However that means I work away for 2 days a week (incl 1 night). My parents insist they help us and have the grandchildren 2.5x days a week. It's mainly because they literally DOTE on the grandchildren, I have never seen anything like it. They are almost obsessed. But likewise the bond my kids have with them is also very special. Admittedly we could just put the kids in creche a bit more, but (a) my folks would be hurt (they would move heaven and earth to have the kids) and (b) what's the point of living where we are, if we're not using the support network which was one of the plusses of moving up here. Plus I quite like the bond my kids have with my folks.

So that's me and the kids.

DH worked (in Birmingham) in a very city based role, he can only do that work for a corporate city firm. That kind of work is nowhere to be seen where we live now. So, before we moved, after several discussions with my folks, he moved to working with my Mum in her business, which is completely different to anything he's ever done. Not even the skills in his previous city role would have been transferrable, other than perhaps (very loosely) people management. So it's very different to anything he's ever done but he was super keen to get involved.

Mum has grown the business from nothing and it's thriving. She lives and breathes it and has been running it now for nearly 40 years. The original idea was that she would then take a step back and he would take a step up (i.e. the future). She kept saying that the business needed new blood. But it reeeeally hasn't worked out like that.

I can see failings on both sides. She is very abrupt and almost aggressive in the way she deals with people. She's super efficient, operates at 110mph, nothing gets left undone. She's just constantly firing on all cylinders. That said, she can be very scatty and makes mistakes. There are very few processes. V little stored electronically. She operates heavily by bits of paper here n there. No idea how to use spreadsheets etc. All v old school. But clearly it has worked for her because the business is really successful.

DH on the other hand is the total opposite. Calmer, slower, not so engaged with the staff (she's the type that would send any of her staff a generous new baby gift if they had new babies, would know their kids' names etc when she has 70+ staff to manage... he is (well) a stereotypical man and just wouldn't be interested). Her personal touch with staff is what she's really known for. She will roll her sleeves up and get in the thick of it (and is v respected for that), he would probably delegate more.

So they have very different styles. Truth be told, if anything were to happen to Mum tomorrow and he had to step up and take over, I'd have been slightly worried at him running the show (and that's after nearly 4 years of being in the business!).

Now don't get me wrong, there was never any need for them to take him in, we know that. But we didn't quite think it would go as it has. In hindsight I think a lot of it is that (a) she's a VERY had task master, hard to please; and (b) no-one will ever run your own business like yourself so, despite his different management style, he has always (now, in hindsight) been on a bit of a hiding to nothing.

Anyway, the relationship with Mum has become absolutely horrendous over the past 18 months since she has started to pick him up for things he's missing. She says that she's meant to be taking a step back and is paying him to take over her role, yet in reality she's (apparently) working more than ever, until midnight every night to keep things running as she likes it. DH says that there must be a completely different side to the business that she runs that they don't let him in on. Looking at this from afar (and knowing both characters), DH operates very much on a "list" basis. If he has 10 things on his list then that's all he thinks he has on. In reality he probably just doesn't think that far outside the box as to what Mum could be doing at night. On the other hand, I think Mum can be v anal so....

Aaaanyway she called him in a few weeks ago. Basically told him the business is being "restructured". DH would not be doing his current role and they had "created" a new role in another part of the business for him, completely unrelated to what he's been doing - and learning - for the past 4 years. He sees it as them sacking him and creating a made up role for him simply because he's their son in law and because they want us to stay living nearby so they can see the grandchildren. I tend to agree with that, but I also do think he'd be quite well suited to this new role (which I don't think is entirely a "fake" role because it's stuff that needs doing and relates to the future growth of the company, so probably more his bag).

Anyway, after they told him about these new "restructuring" plans, they told him to take a month away from "them" and from the business (!). He has been at home feeling totally lost, upset, hurt. I expected he'd accept that new role and make it work (he admits himself it sounds exciting) but he's decided (and I kinda agree) because of the sheer stress of working for family and he just wants out. He says they've pulled the rug from beneath his feet with his initial role so could do it again, and he's not getting any younger. He is also sick of constantly having to defend himself and how he operates. It's exhausting and I get it.

He has told Mum & Dad that he won't be accepting the new role and they didn't argue back. They said they'd always support him in whatever way they could, but in reality I think they are just relieved that he's out of their hair.

The question is what now. For him. For our family.

We live in a rural area. There are NO roles here which is anything like his previous city based role. He would need to travel at least 1h15 mins each way to the nearest city, and even then it's a small-ish hub that would have satellite corporate offices, not mainstream HQs etc.

He says he's been out of that corporate world now for 4 years so he'll struggle to get anything at the level he previously was at, especially where we're based. Otherwise, there is NADA going. It's demoralising. He's so bright, successful, had a glimmering career in London, and now he's on the floor and doesn't know what to do with himself.

One option (which is heart wants to do) is for us, as a family, to sell up and move to Edinburgh (where he's from) where there would be heaps of jobs (for him), better paid, he'd be close to his family and friends etc. But not for me. It's a different jurisdiction so wouldn't work for my career. As I say, I already spend 1 night 2 days away each week which I could (in paper) still do but it would entail me flying down to work each week. I just don't want to do that. I have young kids. I don't want that stress. Me leaving my job and getting something else up in Edinburgh is also not an option because I've been there for 16 years, I have a good rep there and I'm the main breadwinner. Not that this should be a reason not to move, but it would also kill my parents who live for the grandchildren every week.

We feel a bit lost. He fully supports me not leaving my role. He knows me leaving isn't an option and he keeps saying that. But it's a terrible situation because:

  • where we live now works for me, doesn't work for him job wise. He'd have to make do with anything, which would make him feel even more worthless than he does now (he is at rock bottom)
  • if we go to Edinburgh, it works perfectly for him, but not for me.
  • we don't want to move back to Birmingham, we've done that. We don't want to go back to a city where we have no family connections, we'd just be living there for work. Life is too short.

There are no answers. Just wanted to vent, and I guess any generic thoughts on the situation...

OP posts:
EarringsandLipstick · 26/03/2021 21:23

Holy crap OP! That's some story.

Firstly, your DH has done absolutely the right thing in turning down the job & leaving your mum's business. This would have got immensely complicated, especially as your mum reached retirement & the handing-over of the business was meant to happen. It would have got very bitter.

Secondly, I think your mum (& dad) have been unfair & manipulative to your DH. They really put him in a position where he almost had to walk away. The part about ordering him to take a month away from the business?! Wtf.

Thirdly, this was going to affect your marriage ultimately. Divided loyalties.

What next?
Surely, some wfh opportunities for DH present themselves in this changed world?

You are the main breadwinner & a good relationship with your parents & they with the grandkids. I wouldn't lose that.

I think he should seek career coaching & formulate a plan, with you. Maybe build in a timeframe for reviewing it.

I think you sound very clear-sighted, and I'm really glad your relationship with DH has stayed ok throughout this. I feel very sorry for him. Your mum hasn't behaved well here.

Plumplumbadum · 26/03/2021 21:50

I don't think your mum had any intentions of letting your DH take over the business. I think she said what needed to be said to get her own way with the children. The poor bugger has really been sold down the river here, but your mum.....well everything is going her way isn't it?
I'd be very very angry if I were him. He's spent four years on a hiding to nothing and in the meantime has lost the possibility of getting back into doing what he was originally doing. I'm surprised you're not more angry with your parents tbh. This sounds like one way or the other, it's going to cost you your marriage. One of you will have to compromise for the other and it doesn't sound like you want to or are able to. So where does that leave your poor DH?

AnonymousMamaof2 · 26/03/2021 21:51

Thanks, and yes agree re WFH.

Two bits of detail I l forgot:

  • he has a medical problem which really hampered the end of his time in B’ham (another reason to leave at the time) and the more active role he had (had) with Mum helped that because he wasn't so desk based. I dread to think how he'd be going back to 100% desk again. Even just the past month at a PC looking for jobs exacerbates his condition....
  • my relationship with my parents has entirely broken down. It is horrific and couldn't be further than it was 18 months ago. I used to speak to Mum every day, we'd hang out all the time, have weekends away together, all go away as a family at Xmas etc. The breakdown is probably 30% because of the work situation and 70% because of various other things that have happened alongside all the work crap. She betrayed my trust this year telling her friend how bad DH has been at work and about a domestic he and I had at the time and in which I confided in Mum about. Something I felt was a private mum/daughter chat. Things have just snowballed since then and there must be something nearly every week on a personal level. She doesn't see any wrong in herself whatsoever. I haven't been an angel either, but this relationship is terrible atm. That said, we were such a tight family before all of this, I still don't want to up sticks and move away because the sensible part of me thinks (hopes...) that, with time, and with his move away from the business, the relationship with my folks will hopefully fix itself. Maybe then the relationship v2 might just be a bit different, I can’t ever see the days of Mum and I going off on our jollies together ever happening again. But hopefully group family holidays perhaps.

I think that part of the issue with Mum is that I have finally cut the apron strings. I have stood by DH in all of this, despite the work failings on his side that I can see from afar. I don't think they like that and so the personal side of the relationship has taken even more of a hit.

Coincidentally, my relationship with DH has (touch wood) never been better. This whole saga brought us closer together. I have remained fiercely loyal and supported him when he’s been feeling this low. I keep reassuring him that there’s no pressure re work, I can support us etc etc. He knows my heart is breaking and that I miss my Mum but I have put him and our kids first and I think he is so grateful for that.

God I need a bloody holiday. And wine! :)

OP posts:
d577ta · 26/03/2021 21:58

I just want to say that you have done very well OP not to get bitter against your parents yourself in the treatment of your husband. Blood should be thicker than water if they love the grandchildren so much its such a shame that they made your husband feel so shite like that. You seem very level headed. It sounds like you don't really want to leave the life you have now but that you do want your husband to be happy. You love the rural feel, your job, the kids bond etc. O guess the question you are really asking is how can I pick my husband up from this crappy situation. It seems to me that he is going to have to let this corporate thing go. It's not the life he has switched for. Depending on your monetary needs is there anything he could do that he just enjoys doing. Maybe he could take a year to try his hand at new things. Tell him you will support him. Anyhow I hope you get some clarity. Good luck

EarringsandLipstick · 26/03/2021 22:00

Ahhh. My advice changes somewhat, reading the update about your family, especially your mum.

Coincidentally, my relationship with DH has (touch wood) never been better.

This stands out.

I would actively consider moving away from your parents. Perhaps not Edinburgh, if it will be so problematic re your work, but maybe don't rule it out.

Start by planning a career path for your DH. There are options, but possibly not overnight. He deserves a chance at a productive career

AnonymousMamaof2 · 26/03/2021 22:03

@Plumplumbadum

I don't think your mum had any intentions of letting your DH take over the business. I think she said what needed to be said to get her own way with the children. The poor bugger has really been sold down the river here, but your mum.....well everything is going her way isn't it? I'd be very very angry if I were him. He's spent four years on a hiding to nothing and in the meantime has lost the possibility of getting back into doing what he was originally doing. I'm surprised you're not more angry with your parents tbh. This sounds like one way or the other, it's going to cost you your marriage. One of you will have to compromise for the other and it doesn't sound like you want to or are able to. So where does that leave your poor DH?
Agree that she had no intention of handing over the biz.

I am willing to compromise if push came to shove, but I (we) are nervous about me leaving my role. You cannot easily replace the longevity I have and he would be a new starter anywhere he goes. Returning to B'ham would be the easy option for him at walking back into his old company, but we don't want to be based there.

My Mum is so paranoid that everything they've worked for will just evaporate if handed over. They're also mega paranoid about divorce and a spouse being entitled to taking half. One sibling is single and another also married. They are fixated on setting up a legacy for the grandchildren. They continually say "we're only doing this for X,Y and Z". They have gone so far as to say now that they will give each of their direct children (us) "a lump sum" on death, but anything and everything - all their assets, the shares in the businesses, everything - will go straight to the grandchildren in a trust. Don't get me wrong, I don't want anything and of course anything I ever inherited would always be something I passed to my own kids anyway, but cutting out their direct children because they're so paranoid about divorce after their death just shows their thinking!

And- in response - I am raging at them. The relationship with them has broken down completely. I let them have the kids because I don't want to deprive them of that but the easier option would be to put them into nursery more... and save myself the hour's round trip drive that I put myself out for, for them!!

What's that saying again... more money, more problems!!

OP posts:
Phineyj · 26/03/2021 22:04

Hmm. I think you do need to move. Not to Edinburgh, but away from your parents! Your mum is clearly very driven and rather controlling and (even if originally with good intentions) she has shafted your DH's career. And if you're barely speaking to her, is it a good idea for your DC to be spending so much time with her? Where is your Dad in all this?

It's by the by but I hardly think a 1 hr 15 min commute is out of the question. I do that every day into London from Zone 4. It's for the same reason - the money and opportunities are better there.

AnonymousMamaof2 · 26/03/2021 22:04

@EarringsandLipstick
thanks - I really appreciate that view x

OP posts:
Thurlow · 26/03/2021 22:05

What a rubbish situation, you have my sympathy.

Could he try looking for more corporate roles again? It's a brave new world at the moment. I work in a London mid-tier firm and in some ways his luck is in - we're far more open to remote working than we ever were. There's a chance he could find something that would allow him to work from home and fly to Edinburgh or London, like you do, every few weeks and stay a night or two. I wouldn't write it off just yet.

Phineyj · 26/03/2021 22:08

Sorry, just seen your latest post. You're 'raging at them' but you take your DC there at great inconvenience? Why? I'm sorry but if your parents don't like you, your siblings or your spouses having minds of your own, they won't like it when the GC are old enough to defy them either. I'm guessing the DC are still very young?

MadMadMadamMim · 26/03/2021 22:08

The relationship with them has broken down completely. I let them have the kids because I don't want to deprive them of that but the easier option would be to put them into nursery more... and save myself the hour's round trip drive that I put myself out for, for them!!

You need to do this for a start. But I honestly think the only thing to do is to move. Your mother sounds an utter nightmare, tbh.

I think you need to be looking at moving somewhere much more suitable for both you and DH to work. How about Fife if you want rural and DH can commute into Edinburgh.

It does look like you may need to change jobs in that case. If you can't as the main breadwinner - can you at least move somewhere where it's possible for DH to get work?

EarringsandLipstick · 26/03/2021 22:12

God Anon, they sound obsessive about the kids

They are fixated on setting up a legacy for the grandchildren.

Deffo look to put distance between you.

I'm glad it hasn't affected your relationship with DH. I'd worry that it might, as he tries to find work etc. I'd really prioritise supporting DH. Good luck, tough situation for sure. 💐

AnonymousMamaof2 · 26/03/2021 22:12

@Phineyj
Agree re 1h15, we used to do the same ourselves daily. It's more the fact now that we need him around for definitely 2, sometimes might be 3 mornings and afternoons each week for nursery pick up when I'm working away those 2 days (8:30 drop off, 5:30 pick up). So a 1h15 commute isn't going to facilitate that and we don't know for sure that any new job will allow 2, sometimes 2, wfh days....
We need someone at "base" at least 2 days a week, the job with Mum obv allowed that

OP posts:
Rainbowqueeen · 26/03/2021 22:18

I would move. Take some time to find somewhere that would work career wise for both of you, that you think you would like and that it in England but close to Scotland.

Schoolchoicesucks · 26/03/2021 22:24

How do your parents mind your children 2.5 days a week while also working (your mum) full on in her own business? It doesn't really sound as if she wants to step back if this has been going on for 4 years. Does the restructure allow her to do this or is she still driving everything?It is odd that you relocated to be close to them and yet dropping the children off is inconvenient

Regardless, the current situation is clearly not working for your family.

If your relationship with them has broken down and you have to travel for work anyway, moving away would seem a good option. Where do you have to travel to for work? Could you relocate closer to that place and could your dh find work there?

Why would travelling from Edinburgh for 1 overnight a week not be an option when you are currently doing that from your current location?

Where could you both find work that isn't where you currently are, Edinburgh or Birmingham?

thelegohooverer · 26/03/2021 22:24

Sympathy OP, the dynamics of family businesses can have horrific personal repercussions.
Your dps fears about divorce aren’t at all unusual - there’s even been research around the impact of ‘fear of the in-laws’ in succession planning - so you’re not alone!

I was inclined to say that you need to prioritise your career prospects, and the nuclear family unit, above your dps. But then you mentioned a “domestic” ?
What did you mean by that?

User5747384 · 26/03/2021 22:26

I think you would be better off moving, not quite as far as Edinburgh though somewhere he can access more job opportunities but you still keep yours.
I feel for your DH. Your Mum is out of order.

pinkandstripey · 26/03/2021 22:26

He needs to be on linkedin and the like, making contacts from his old world and speaking to recruitment agencies to work out what his old world looks like these days. As pp said, wfh is MUCH more prevalent than it was 4 years ago.

Could you amend your working pattern? Compacted hours or drop a day so you'd be at home more?

I'm struggling to work out location, where you can still do your job, but he can't commute anywhere useful in over an hour?

MarieDelaere · 26/03/2021 22:29

I think it's likely relevant what you told your mother, as the @thelegohooverer says.

Dunnesstores · 26/03/2021 22:31

I would get out of there while you can.
The situation with the kids sounds too obsessive/controlling. I'd worry that in time they'll interfere too much and as time goes on influence them against you or/and your dh by been the fun grandparents with money who spoil them.

AnonymousMamaof2 · 26/03/2021 22:34

@Schoolchoicesucks

How do your parents mind your children 2.5 days a week while also working (your mum) full on in her own business? It doesn't really sound as if she wants to step back if this has been going on for 4 years. Does the restructure allow her to do this or is she still driving everything?It is odd that you relocated to be close to them and yet dropping the children off is inconvenient

She doesn't work the 2.5 days she has them. She works in the evenings on the days she has them (this is what I think she felt she wouldn't be doing with DH coming into the business) and otherwise works 3.5 days - long days - in the biz.

We also live near them but made a conscious decision not to be on their doorstep. We're 45 min from their house, being rural that isn't actually v far for us. It's 30 min to the meet up point where we would usually hand over with kids etc. That drive to hand over kids wasn't an issue when DH was doing it anyway for work, but now it is a pain as we're going against ourselves.

I still take the kids because I try to think about what my kids would want. They really enjoy their time there - they see their cousins etc, loads of kids etc - so I try and be sensible. And also try to not be evil to my parents when the GC bring them so much joy.

OP posts:
Bluntness100 · 26/03/2021 22:38

I don’t really understand this either, how does your mum look after the kids 2.5 days a week whilst working like this? It does not seem plausible.

In addition uou yourself could see issues in your husbands work performance, and that was from afar. It’s odds on you couldn’t see all of it.

I don’t know why you’re fuming at your parents, it seems fault on all sides, but if this is their business that they worked hard for, it would be very hard for them to see someone not performing four years down the line.

If your husband was not cut out for it, he was not cut out for it.

therocinante · 26/03/2021 22:39

Your parents sound very stressful and overbearing, and I agree with PPs that you need to step away from them. If nothing else: what is that kind of pressure about legacies etc going to do your children as they get older? I can't imagine them keeping quiet about their disdain for your children's father to them, and finding out your grandparents don't trust your parents not to divorce so you've been handed the family inheritance is a whole bag of therapy waiting to happen.

Your parents have behaved really badly. I think the relationship healing is going to either require them to recognise that or you to bite your tongue and let them continue thinking they were right: the former doesn't sound likely and the latter could be pretty galling for your husband, so tread carefully.

If you've got 16 years at your current business I presume you're reasonably senior and have some sway. Is there anyone you can have a conversation with about the potential of doing, say, 3 days every fortnight in the office, or splitting your time there differently?

Babysharkdoodoodood · 26/03/2021 22:40

Why don't you move closer to where you work so you don't have to stay away? Is it in a city where you DH could get a job?

MarieDelaere · 26/03/2021 22:41

He would need to travel at least 1h15 mins each way to the nearest city, and even then it's a small-ish hub that would have satellite corporate offices, not mainstream HQs etc

I know you've explained this but I still don't understand, given all you've said.