What a mess. Just a really, really rubbish situation

[AnonymousMamaof2]

Ok, so I need to do some scene setting first.

DH and I met whilst working in Birmingham (we just worked there, no family connections whatsoever to the place). We had our child there but always knew we didn't want to raise a family in the city. Shortly after DC1 we made the decision to leave and move to the area where I grew up (which is nowhere near where my DH is from and he has zero connections here). He was driving the move more than I was, saying it would be a nicer area to bring up kids (which it is, it's amazing: rural, beautiful, near very supportive grandparents who look after the kids 3x a week etc).

I had been doing well in my career and I am the main breadwinner. However that means I work away for 2 days a week (incl 1 night). My parents insist they help us and have the grandchildren 2.5x days a week. It's mainly because they literally DOTE on the grandchildren, I have never seen anything like it. They are almost obsessed. But likewise the bond my kids have with them is also very special. Admittedly we could just put the kids in creche a bit more, but (a) my folks would be hurt (they would move heaven and earth to have the kids) and (b) what's the point of living where we are, if we're not using the support network which was one of the plusses of moving up here. Plus I quite like the bond my kids have with my folks.

So that's me and the kids.

DH worked (in Birmingham) in a very city based role, he can only do that work for a corporate city firm. That kind of work is nowhere to be seen where we live now. So, before we moved, after several discussions with my folks, he moved to working with my Mum in her business, which is completely different to anything he's ever done. Not even the skills in his previous city role would have been transferrable, other than perhaps (very loosely) people management. So it's very different to anything he's ever done but he was super keen to get involved.

Mum has grown the business from nothing and it's thriving. She lives and breathes it and has been running it now for nearly 40 years. The original idea was that she would then take a step back and he would take a step up (i.e. the future). She kept saying that the business needed new blood. But it reeeeally hasn't worked out like that.

I can see failings on both sides. She is very abrupt and almost aggressive in the way she deals with people. She's super efficient, operates at 110mph, nothing gets left undone. She's just constantly firing on all cylinders. That said, she can be very scatty and makes mistakes. There are very few processes. V little stored electronically. She operates heavily by bits of paper here n there. No idea how to use spreadsheets etc. All v old school. But clearly it has worked for her because the business is really successful.

DH on the other hand is the total opposite. Calmer, slower, not so engaged with the staff (she's the type that would send any of her staff a generous new baby gift if they had new babies, would know their kids' names etc when she has 70+ staff to manage... he is (well) a stereotypical man and just wouldn't be interested). Her personal touch with staff is what she's really known for. She will roll her sleeves up and get in the thick of it (and is v respected for that), he would probably delegate more.

So they have very different styles. Truth be told, if anything were to happen to Mum tomorrow and he had to step up and take over, I'd have been slightly worried at him running the show (and that's after nearly 4 years of being in the business!).

Now don't get me wrong, there was never any need for them to take him in, we know that. But we didn't quite think it would go as it has. In hindsight I think a lot of it is that (a) she's a VERY had task master, hard to please; and (b) no-one will ever run your own business like yourself so, despite his different management style, he has always (now, in hindsight) been on a bit of a hiding to nothing.

Anyway, the relationship with Mum has become absolutely horrendous over the past 18 months since she has started to pick him up for things he's missing. She says that she's meant to be taking a step back and is paying him to take over her role, yet in reality she's (apparently) working more than ever, until midnight every night to keep things running as she likes it. DH says that there must be a completely different side to the business that she runs that they don't let him in on. Looking at this from afar (and knowing both characters), DH operates very much on a "list" basis. If he has 10 things on his list then that's all he thinks he has on. In reality he probably just doesn't think that far outside the box as to what Mum could be doing at night. On the other hand, I think Mum can be v anal so....

Aaaanyway she called him in a few weeks ago. Basically told him the business is being "restructured". DH would not be doing his current role and they had "created" a new role in another part of the business for him, completely unrelated to what he's been doing - and learning - for the past 4 years. He sees it as them sacking him and creating a made up role for him simply because he's their son in law and because they want us to stay living nearby so they can see the grandchildren. I tend to agree with that, but I also do think he'd be quite well suited to this new role (which I don't think is entirely a "fake" role because it's stuff that needs doing and relates to the future growth of the company, so probably more his bag).

Anyway, after they told him about these new "restructuring" plans, they told him to take a month away from "them" and from the business (!). He has been at home feeling totally lost, upset, hurt. I expected he'd accept that new role and make it work (he admits himself it sounds exciting) but he's decided (and I kinda agree) because of the sheer stress of working for family and he just wants out. He says they've pulled the rug from beneath his feet with his initial role so could do it again, and he's not getting any younger. He is also sick of constantly having to defend himself and how he operates. It's exhausting and I get it.

He has told Mum & Dad that he won't be accepting the new role and they didn't argue back. They said they'd always support him in whatever way they could, but in reality I think they are just relieved that he's out of their hair.

The question is what now. For him. For our family.

We live in a rural area. There are NO roles here which is anything like his previous city based role. He would need to travel at least 1h15 mins each way to the nearest city, and even then it's a small-ish hub that would have satellite corporate offices, not mainstream HQs etc.

He says he's been out of that corporate world now for 4 years so he'll struggle to get anything at the level he previously was at, especially where we're based. Otherwise, there is NADA going. It's demoralising. He's so bright, successful, had a glimmering career in London, and now he's on the floor and doesn't know what to do with himself.

One option (which is heart wants to do) is for us, as a family, to sell up and move to Edinburgh (where he's from) where there would be heaps of jobs (for him), better paid, he'd be close to his family and friends etc. But not for me. It's a different jurisdiction so wouldn't work for my career. As I say, I already spend 1 night 2 days away each week which I could (in paper) still do but it would entail me flying down to work each week. I just don't want to do that. I have young kids. I don't want that stress. Me leaving my job and getting something else up in Edinburgh is also not an option because I've been there for 16 years, I have a good rep there and I'm the main breadwinner. Not that this should be a reason not to move, but it would also kill my parents who live for the grandchildren every week.

We feel a bit lost. He fully supports me not leaving my role. He knows me leaving isn't an option and he keeps saying that. But it's a terrible situation because:

• where we live now works for me, doesn't work for him job wise. He'd have to make do with anything, which would make him feel even more worthless than he does now (he is at rock bottom)
• if we go to Edinburgh, it works perfectly for him, but not for me.
• we don't want to move back to Birmingham, we've done that. We don't want to go back to a city where we have no family connections, we'd just be living there for work. Life is too short.

There are no answers. Just wanted to vent, and I guess any generic thoughts on the situation...

To make good choices, I advise you to let go of your fear:

• Your fear of leaving your support network. It’s not free childcare, it’s hugely expensive in mental cost. They aren’t good grandparents if they treat the children’s father like that.
• your fear of leaving cousins. Plenty of children see their cousins a couple of times a year. It’s not a driving factor.
• Your fear of leaving friends. We’ve made plenty of new friends connected to work or our children’s school. We see our old friends a few times a year and chat all the time on WhatsApp. We love each other dearly but my friends are not a reason to stay in a place.

Your priority has to be:

• 1) your husband’s health including him starting a career that makes him feel happy and fulfilled. He’s lost so much in this.
• 2) An achievable commute for you
• 3) having enough money.

I think you’re crossing out viable options because they aren’t optimal or will result in more hassle for you. But all families are juggling constantly.

OP are you and your husband both lawyers by training?

@AnonymousMamaof2 "Can I also just add to this that my parents see no wrong in themselves. "

I see a lot of what you have described about your parents in mine although they were not as successful with a business. I moved away for work and was scheduled to return back when I met my DH..and never did return. Married many years now with kids. The relationship was never great between DH and parents..they are in reality controlling and he was already independent and begging to be successful in his career and was never going to be dictated to by them. Eventually resulted in a couple of awful family arguments as he just refused to put up with their shit to the point of walking out at Xmas....we have since never spent Xmas with them. Since then they carried on..we used to try and have a holiday together for a few days once a year and that stopped due to their behaviour. However, it is gradually starting to change as lockdown as impacted them...they haven't seen us for 15 months and that was for a few hours.

I sadly have to say it but keeping distance between us has been the best thing for us as a family but as they are now entering 70s they are starting to regret things (I think) and I guess thinking that time could be limited. Sadly it is too late as I'm not prepared for them to cause more trouble so contact is limited to a weekly chat and perhaps meet in a pub half way every 6-9 months

It is difficult and sad for our kids who are late teens now but they do see and understand the issues with their grandparents

Personally I wouldn't move to Edinburgh as I it does t sound good career wise and you really don't want that stress introduced, but seek a compromise that gives your husband a meaningful purpose. If that means moving further away then so be it

I guarantee though you will have conflict as your parents start to realise what losing something precious to them (grandchildren) means as my kids no longer have anything like the relationship they used to and can really take it or leave it

Sorry, haven't rtft.

Why is the move back to Birmingham(ish) such a big no-no? There are plenty of commuter towns within reasonable distance so you get Brum job opportunities but rural-ish living.

Your mum sounds a bit like my MIL. She put herself out for the weak and vulnerable - not because she was nice but because she liked to feel superior to them. Doting parent when the DC were young but couldn't cope when they became adults and had minds of their own. In later life she took up charity work so she again had people (who couldn't argue back) to lord it over.

I think agreeing to work for PIL business was the big step - and to move; obviously DH wanted to do it, and knew all the apocryphal stories of mixing work and family matters. And still chose to do it. Clearly, he isn't fussed about the satisfaction to be had from nurturing his own career. And why should he be? We work for life, rather than live for work.

While many in the country worry about jobs, OP and her family are able to feel a bit more cushioned and comfortable in that respect. Probably only a small percentage of entrepreneurs are truly successful and viable. Good for DM. Let's not knock her ability to analyse good manager material, or how to organise her orders. Probably her PA can use a spreadsheet.

It has become awkward, but sometimes you need to put family before pride. Just chalk up business mess-up to experience, and try to stay on good terms with cousins, aunts, uncles and grandparents for the sake of the kids. Just laugh about the episode and move on.

Thank goodness OP's job is going well. I don't really think that career choice should be more important than kids's happiness, and lots of jobs, well-paid or not can be satisfying.

If your husband can’t even sit at a pc job hunting how can you expect him to run your DM’s business?

Why can’t he get an exec role working from home? With occasional trips to an office?

I’m not sure why DM is getting all the blame when it sounds like DH didn’t really step up to the plate very well

Yes, I’m not sure what’s happening here, maybe the op is too long ans people are just jumping on a bandwagon without reading properly.

The op has been quite clear there were issues in her husbands work performance, even she could see that. And he’s been quite controlling about the kids not allowed to see her parents during vacation time. To the extent she did actually try to do it in secret.

It seems the parents have given him a job, even intended to let him run the business, but he was not performing well, to such an extent they were needing to step in and do the things he was missing. Because as the op said “ he worked off a list of things he had to do and missed the bigger picture” and also “didn’t interact with the staff well”. He was doing it for four years, hardly someone who should still be still “training” they were trying to reduce their working hours, but ended up working evenings etc to try to cover the things he was missing..

He was also the one that drove the move to work for her parents, so clearly his previous role there was an issue with also. No one who is some form of star and driven in a great job says oh let me quit ans work for your parents in something I’ve no experience of. So there is likely previous performance issues the op is unaware of.

The parents were in a no win. They brought him on, he was not up to thr task, so instead of letting it continue after four years they tried to move him to another position, he’s refused out of pride. And now they are fucked.

So yes, likely faults on both sides, but there is no way this is totally the parents fault. In fact there’s a high chance they tried to do a good thing for the op and found it to be a terrible decision due to the husbands work performance.

I think you need to move away from your parents and go back to Birmingham. Get jobs there and build up a life and network in a nice suburb or village outside.

There's no need to be near your parents just because they dote on the grandchildren. From what I've read, your mother seems controlling and overbearing at the very least, and quite possibly very toxic. I agree with PP that you need to get away - if you stay, I think you're risking your marriage.

The main barrier to moving to Edinburgh seems to be your job. Have you looked at options for you there? I understand you're reluctance to give up a job you've had for 16 years but there may be opportunities you haven't looked at yet.

Has he approached his old firm for a role? That won’t be the only firm like it in the UK, where is the nearest to you?

He should take the offered month long break and proffer his resignation. Then don’t mention it again to your parents, otherwise you will never recover your relationship.

How old are your children OP? Sorry if I have missed this.

I think the suggestion a PP made for your DH to seek career coaching is a good one.

At the moment quite a few decisions you are making are reactive and in support of the status quo. E.g you have already established staying out for the ‘support network’.

Start your decision making from a clean slate and from the starting point of what it takes to get your DH established on a refreshed path.

Apart from anything else him having an income will relieve pressure on you.

It’s good that you and DH are still close after all this, but please look closely at what has happened here.

You say you are fiercely loyal but of course he wanted a holiday break from your parents: your mum is his boss! And it was mad to tell your Mum about your argument: you were talking to his boss, telling her that he wanted her to to see her grandchildren. That was a massive betrayal of your husband. It was practically a declaration of war between your Mum and DH. And will have fuelled their divorce paranoia too.

Support networks and god relationships with grandparents and cousins don’t have to rely on them being with them for half the working week.

Your DH can’t even do a role as a SAHD now because you are driving the children away from him to your Ps.

The children will soon be at school. Plan with a clean skate for when they won’t be able to spend all this time at your parents.

There must be more options in the world than where you live now and the ongoing enmeshment with your parents, and living in Birmingham.

Start with career coaching from there and let that lead the way.

It’s not a support network if they are diminishing one you. It’s breaking you all down rather than helping you.

I don’t think you can have all the things you want here: your proximity to your parents is coming at a major cost to your husband’s career and sense of himself.

There’s also something massively rubbing me the wrong way about your parents - them talking badly about your DH in the community where you are trying to make a home is really wretched. They have put a massive strain on him, you and your marriage. They aren’t happy you are standing by him yet it’s what they do for another. There is something really off about that.

Sounds like you should move to a place where he can find the kind of job he needs. Your parents can visit or whatever. Obviously you are mobile in your career yourself if you moved 4 years ago but kept the same job yourself.

Also, you sound like a good person and good wife.

Mmm. I’m going to play devil’s advocate.

So I have seen this from the sidelines with a family member and a son-in-law. It’s not easy, if someone is not cut up to the job. I really mean that. Your parents will want to do the best for you but also their business. They have worked hard for the business and lack of capability will have been a difficult situation for them.

There’s lots of rash comments on here about moving away, not allowing grandparents to see kids etc. Personally, I think time is a great healer and I would suggest you review the situation in six months re relocating. DH can get a new job and commute and then see what is best.

I once put a relationship problem (under another name) on mumsnet and the answer was to leave DH immediately! Well, I didn’t and I’m so glad I didn’t listen to that advice as my relationship is just getting better. It’s easy to dish out advice from behind a screen!

If you wait a month DH may even like /suit the new role. He may not but he may do.

Your DC should still spend time with grandparents in this interim period.

Relationships with Mums are often frought. I would suggest you and her go for a lockdown walk and try and rebuild relationships. Tell her what your frustrations are. She’s your mum and most will want their children happy. Otherwise, your Dad.

I always find the happiest people in the long term are those that make compromises, understand they don’t live in an island and behave calmly. Look at the Royal family as an example!!

Just wait and think.

A key thing here is to ascertain how much DH medical issue is going to affect working. If it does interfere, then that is rotten for him, and maybe it is an incapacity, in the full official sense. If it stops him working on some days, then he can't really apply for certain jobs. In which case, living somewhere easy for OP job is critical.

If you can support your family financially for now then your dh needs to retrain or get a little pt job that fits around the dcs until they are older. I get he feels unfulfilled but the alternative is that you risk your career as well as your support network to give him a shot at a career. If the roles were reversed and it was you without a career and him the main breadwinner the advice would be different on this thread.

You can reduce the contact with your parents slowly because daddy will be able to do the pick ups from nursery if you even need childcare.

He can retrain or network or set his own little business up. Then when the dcs are older then he can look for a career. In these uncertain times no way would I leave the job I have and start again somewhere else.

I feel for your DH. He gave up his career to move closer to your family and now has lost the job they gave him because your controlling Mother didn’t deem him good enough. So he’s in a position now where he has no job and lives miles away from his friends and family, has he made any friends of his own where you currently live? Poor guy, bet he feels terrible right now.

A 1 hr 15 min commute isn’t terrible, plenty of people do this every day without even thinking about it. As others have pointed out, lots of businesses are WFH right now anyway. I wouldn’t personally shut the idea of a job that far away down. I would stop using your parents as childcare, they sound rather toxic and they have majorly let your DH down.

Birmingham is one of the best connected cities in the whole of the UK as far as commuting goes, you don't have to actually live there to work there!

However, I think you should go radical and both look for job opportunities abroad (possibly fixed term), then you can go on an adventure.

Your support network sounds anything but!

Your husband sacrificed a lot and has suffered for it. May be an unpopular view but I'd move to Edinburgh and give him what he gave you.

Also, it sounds like your dc are little. You will build a new support network - and have completely different childcare needs - when they start school.

@AnonymousMamaof2, it doesn't sound as if your parents want your marriage to work.
I hope you and your good husband find a way to make it.

@AnonymousMamaof2 . You do sound remarkably clear headed about the whole situation. It must be so difficult for you. It is always easier to forgive and work with our own families. Not so easy for outsiders coming into a tight family unit. I just wanted to say that you are handling this well and you are admirable in your restraint on all sides.
Finding a WFH job for your husband sounds the best way forward, coupled with some kind of hobby that gives him friendship outside your extended family. You sound like a really nice person. Good luck

I don’t understand the commuting time problem in the context of constantly driving the kids on a round trip of the same length.

And your current location doesn’t suit your work OP, if you need to stay overnight.

DH and I were in a very similar situation and it was dreadful while were in it. It was my PIL business and dh was a partner and PIL looked after Dc 3 days a week!

MIL was very domineering and obsessed with the Dc. They never felt they did anything wrong, they were manipulated, wouldn’t let us have any privacy Abs actually said things like “They are our grandchildren, we can do what we like with them”.
So when Dc were 4 and 1 we moved away. It was the best thing we ever did! Never regretted it once.

Since moving away, Dh started telling me all sorts of things about his childhood- he went to therapy and it came out he was mentally and emotionally abused by his mother and his father was physically abusive. Their relationship was also extremely toxic and he and his brother grew up surrounded by aggression and fear. Before he moved away he couldn’t see it at all. I’m just telling you things because you say things like ....the relationship with my parents is toxic yet you are allowing your Dc to go there half the week. This is not right! You need to move away from your parents. If you don’t you are sending a message to your Dc “my parents are toxic but I’m sending you there” and to your DH “My parents have treated you terribly but we’re staying here”.

It’s not your fault you can’t see what’s going on but please take the advice of people on this thread, it go to and get some therapy and discuss your relationship with your parents. I feel for you because your Mothers behaviour must have been the same as you were growing up and I’m very sure it has affected you.

Move. The 'bond' with grandparents is not as important as happy, unstressed parents, which will be of greater benefit. Also, if you stay, your children grow up under your mother's thumb, and on it goes.

Your parents are actually modelling how you should behave. You don't put out sentiment and extended family ahead of what is best for your immediate family. Screw the free childcare, you should be moving to somewhere that works equally well for you and your DH. Move to somewhere there is a chance he can get a job that suits his skills.

Your current experience has clearly demonstrated that being near family isn't always a good thing so it doesn't have to be Edinburgh. Choose somewhere you can both work in roles that suit you and then work out the rest - house, childcare, family visits will all fall into place eventually.