What a mess. Just a really, really rubbish situation

[AnonymousMamaof2]

Ok, so I need to do some scene setting first.

DH and I met whilst working in Birmingham (we just worked there, no family connections whatsoever to the place). We had our child there but always knew we didn't want to raise a family in the city. Shortly after DC1 we made the decision to leave and move to the area where I grew up (which is nowhere near where my DH is from and he has zero connections here). He was driving the move more than I was, saying it would be a nicer area to bring up kids (which it is, it's amazing: rural, beautiful, near very supportive grandparents who look after the kids 3x a week etc).

I had been doing well in my career and I am the main breadwinner. However that means I work away for 2 days a week (incl 1 night). My parents insist they help us and have the grandchildren 2.5x days a week. It's mainly because they literally DOTE on the grandchildren, I have never seen anything like it. They are almost obsessed. But likewise the bond my kids have with them is also very special. Admittedly we could just put the kids in creche a bit more, but (a) my folks would be hurt (they would move heaven and earth to have the kids) and (b) what's the point of living where we are, if we're not using the support network which was one of the plusses of moving up here. Plus I quite like the bond my kids have with my folks.

So that's me and the kids.

DH worked (in Birmingham) in a very city based role, he can only do that work for a corporate city firm. That kind of work is nowhere to be seen where we live now. So, before we moved, after several discussions with my folks, he moved to working with my Mum in her business, which is completely different to anything he's ever done. Not even the skills in his previous city role would have been transferrable, other than perhaps (very loosely) people management. So it's very different to anything he's ever done but he was super keen to get involved.

Mum has grown the business from nothing and it's thriving. She lives and breathes it and has been running it now for nearly 40 years. The original idea was that she would then take a step back and he would take a step up (i.e. the future). She kept saying that the business needed new blood. But it reeeeally hasn't worked out like that.

I can see failings on both sides. She is very abrupt and almost aggressive in the way she deals with people. She's super efficient, operates at 110mph, nothing gets left undone. She's just constantly firing on all cylinders. That said, she can be very scatty and makes mistakes. There are very few processes. V little stored electronically. She operates heavily by bits of paper here n there. No idea how to use spreadsheets etc. All v old school. But clearly it has worked for her because the business is really successful.

DH on the other hand is the total opposite. Calmer, slower, not so engaged with the staff (she's the type that would send any of her staff a generous new baby gift if they had new babies, would know their kids' names etc when she has 70+ staff to manage... he is (well) a stereotypical man and just wouldn't be interested). Her personal touch with staff is what she's really known for. She will roll her sleeves up and get in the thick of it (and is v respected for that), he would probably delegate more.

So they have very different styles. Truth be told, if anything were to happen to Mum tomorrow and he had to step up and take over, I'd have been slightly worried at him running the show (and that's after nearly 4 years of being in the business!).

Now don't get me wrong, there was never any need for them to take him in, we know that. But we didn't quite think it would go as it has. In hindsight I think a lot of it is that (a) she's a VERY had task master, hard to please; and (b) no-one will ever run your own business like yourself so, despite his different management style, he has always (now, in hindsight) been on a bit of a hiding to nothing.

Anyway, the relationship with Mum has become absolutely horrendous over the past 18 months since she has started to pick him up for things he's missing. She says that she's meant to be taking a step back and is paying him to take over her role, yet in reality she's (apparently) working more than ever, until midnight every night to keep things running as she likes it. DH says that there must be a completely different side to the business that she runs that they don't let him in on. Looking at this from afar (and knowing both characters), DH operates very much on a "list" basis. If he has 10 things on his list then that's all he thinks he has on. In reality he probably just doesn't think that far outside the box as to what Mum could be doing at night. On the other hand, I think Mum can be v anal so....

Aaaanyway she called him in a few weeks ago. Basically told him the business is being "restructured". DH would not be doing his current role and they had "created" a new role in another part of the business for him, completely unrelated to what he's been doing - and learning - for the past 4 years. He sees it as them sacking him and creating a made up role for him simply because he's their son in law and because they want us to stay living nearby so they can see the grandchildren. I tend to agree with that, but I also do think he'd be quite well suited to this new role (which I don't think is entirely a "fake" role because it's stuff that needs doing and relates to the future growth of the company, so probably more his bag).

Anyway, after they told him about these new "restructuring" plans, they told him to take a month away from "them" and from the business (!). He has been at home feeling totally lost, upset, hurt. I expected he'd accept that new role and make it work (he admits himself it sounds exciting) but he's decided (and I kinda agree) because of the sheer stress of working for family and he just wants out. He says they've pulled the rug from beneath his feet with his initial role so could do it again, and he's not getting any younger. He is also sick of constantly having to defend himself and how he operates. It's exhausting and I get it.

He has told Mum & Dad that he won't be accepting the new role and they didn't argue back. They said they'd always support him in whatever way they could, but in reality I think they are just relieved that he's out of their hair.

The question is what now. For him. For our family.

We live in a rural area. There are NO roles here which is anything like his previous city based role. He would need to travel at least 1h15 mins each way to the nearest city, and even then it's a small-ish hub that would have satellite corporate offices, not mainstream HQs etc.

He says he's been out of that corporate world now for 4 years so he'll struggle to get anything at the level he previously was at, especially where we're based. Otherwise, there is NADA going. It's demoralising. He's so bright, successful, had a glimmering career in London, and now he's on the floor and doesn't know what to do with himself.

One option (which is heart wants to do) is for us, as a family, to sell up and move to Edinburgh (where he's from) where there would be heaps of jobs (for him), better paid, he'd be close to his family and friends etc. But not for me. It's a different jurisdiction so wouldn't work for my career. As I say, I already spend 1 night 2 days away each week which I could (in paper) still do but it would entail me flying down to work each week. I just don't want to do that. I have young kids. I don't want that stress. Me leaving my job and getting something else up in Edinburgh is also not an option because I've been there for 16 years, I have a good rep there and I'm the main breadwinner. Not that this should be a reason not to move, but it would also kill my parents who live for the grandchildren every week.

We feel a bit lost. He fully supports me not leaving my role. He knows me leaving isn't an option and he keeps saying that. But it's a terrible situation because:

• where we live now works for me, doesn't work for him job wise. He'd have to make do with anything, which would make him feel even more worthless than he does now (he is at rock bottom)
• if we go to Edinburgh, it works perfectly for him, but not for me.
• we don't want to move back to Birmingham, we've done that. We don't want to go back to a city where we have no family connections, we'd just be living there for work. Life is too short.

There are no answers. Just wanted to vent, and I guess any generic thoughts on the situation...

I think even with a new role your Mum will have clear ideas about how she wants it done. That's not a criticism, I'm quite lack that and it bloody annoys me. Someone doing it differently rocks my confidence (I have very low self esteem).

He really needs that career coach.

He needs to fight his own corner now he's decided where the grass is greener.

That's an interesting update OP.

I agree with MaMa - given your DH's feelings & love of the role, I think you do need to sit down as a family - your DPs, DH, you - and really talk.

However, it seems clear to me that:

• your DH will never run the company in the style of your DM
• she'll never be 100% happy with him
• her sphere of control, extending to the grandchildren, will never lessen.
• family businesses are enormously complicated. In my extended family, there is a situation, which although everyone involved is lovely, has been very tense over the years, with hugely problematic arrangements. It seems likely to me, that your DH will face more situations like this one. He & you have to decide how you feel about this.
• in most family businesses, the family have to work extraordinarily hard. There really is no clocking off at 5 & not thinking about it. Sure, there's flexibility in a way you don't have when you are employed but you are always 'on'. The fact that DH doesn't see this, it's not his bag, means he won't end up with the business. Your DPs will pass the business to someone else in the family. He needs to consider where it leaves him long term.

All of these factors need to be considered & your decisions based on what seems right for you both.

I would be very wary of DH remaining in the business. But he seems to really want to.

I also think you have to look at how hard you work, your long hours. You seem to be carrying a huge load. That has to be factored in.

I would also try pushing the idea of a careers coach again, someone with experience in this area. I don't see why he's so resistant? You need an outside opinion. You are all, naturally, emotionally connected & it's hard to think more clinically, which is needed.

Definitely don't talk to DPs on your own. Your DH has to take responsibility & you'd end up in a 'piggy-in-the-middle' situation which would be a nightmare for you.

Frvonutekundont

Sorry for random letters at the end of my post!

The business should be sold and they should enjoy retirement

Leave move away

Leaving money for grandkids is ok if all grandkids have been born ?
What happens if one of their children has triplets a month after they die ?

I agree with PP, he really really needs a career coach.

It's in many ways great that he can articulate what he likes about the role. That will help in looking for something new.

But I think the only reason going back looks attractive is because he's feeling negative about the situation and alternatives. It seems like his (and your thinking) is either go back to the family business or go and work in a corporate role in a satellite office. Two choices only. A bit like your thinking on where to live - stay here or move to Edinburgh, no alternatives. You are both so deep in the situation, but you need to step back, look at the bigger picture and figure out how you're going to figure out a solution rather than leaping straight to solutions. As well as a career coach you may also benefit from some outside help here too. Your posts sound pretty breathless, like you need a solution tomorrow, but I don't think you do?

I would also add that your husband's work ethic sounds far healthier and typical of most people than yours and your mother's OP!!

Sorry but I totally disagree with other posters that your DPs are in the wrong here. To be honest your update makes it sound like your DH has now realised how easy he had it working for your DPs and how much more would be expected of him in a corporate role and is now panicking. He should have treated the role the same as he would a corporate role but it sounds like he took the freedom, flexibility and free childcare for granted instead of working flat out in return. Now he's realised that his coasting and lack of effort has finally caught up with him and he will be thrown back into the real world, with aptitude tests, a commute, less flexibility and being answerable to corporate HR and management.

Your DPs would be mad to take him back without putting some proper rules in place.

Just to say my own DH is brilliant at his job and has even won the odd award. But take him out of that structured and regulated environment where he has a great team and everyone plays their own part and he turns into a total fuckwit. Maybe your DH is similar.

Also meant to say that your DH is wrong if he thinks that he wouldn't be having constant performance meetings or having to prove that he is working efficiently in a corporate role. In my firm we have performance management reviews every six months plus catch ups every three months where we have to get feedback from clients and peers.

The problem is that your DH is getting upset as he thinks "your mum" is managing and trying to improve his performance when it is actually "his manager" doing it, exactly as she would with any other staff member.

The way I see it, you can't please everyone so decide what works best for your family. If your DH would like to continue working in his old role at your mum's then he has to be clear that he needs a list of tasks or duties and not random thoughts in her head. And tell them that it would leave you with little option but to move away if he couldn't work with them.

I also don't know why he can't ask if his old job with remote working is still available. Plenty of people chop and change and go back. Circumstances change.

Or he could set up his own business.

I agree with Gemma. I think your H isn't up to the job with your parents. While your heart may bleed for him, I think you and he need to face up to the reality that he isn't as good as you both think he is and maybe he needs to aim lower. While you may think it's cute that he has to set alarms on his watch, that isn't really a good sign for a senior person in any role (business owner or not).

Your mum is being kind to him really, offering him a different role, but it looks like she's just doing it to be kind. I think he should look for coaching and see how he can overcome his weaknesses.

He's obviously fine if his old company would rehire him at the level he was at.

@betterfantasia

He's obviously fine if his old company would rehire him at the level he was at.

Or they have low standards. I agree with Gemma.

He says he is overall just very drained from the countless meetings to discuss his performance and the constant defending of himself he feels he always has to do. Proving that he's working hard, proving what he's doing, fighting his corner. Something I don't think you get in a bigger organisation (as has been acknowledged on here).

I'm going to disagree with this. If you're under-performing, the countless meetings to discuss your performance are exactly what you get in bigger organisations. They will be all over you constantly (and feeding back to each other behind your back). The difference is that in some bigger organisations, it's easier to hide if you're not a great performer and not working really hard. It sounds like your DH might have been one of these - the ones who aren't really delivering but they hide in the crowd and avoid detection. You've already said that he pissed around a bit in his previous corporate role. So moving to a more intense family business where there's nowhere to hide was a bonkers idea - but it seems like both you OP and your DH are not really facing up to the fact that your DH is not a star performer. You're still fooling yourselves. You seem to see it OP but you're not really facing up to it.

His words were "it was the best job I've ever had"
Maybe but he wasn't performing though was he? He sounds like he wants a hobby job rather than a real job. He likes the status but isn't willing to really put the work in.

Or they have low standards.

Did you register the level he was working at?

He is just not compatible with the company culture in the family firm.

Can he do something similar elsewhere where he is more compatible with the company culture?

Or do PT / short term contracts with his previous niche corporate skill set?

You need to look at your joint work / life balance for the next few years with young children and decide what works for you all.

Would you consider taking on a role within your family business with the aim of taking it over?

A sitdown with everyone around the kitchen table seems like the healthiest way to clear the air and plan the way forward. You solely advocating on his behalf with his boss (your mum or not) is not the way to go.

Where does it say that he would be hired back at his last company the same level? The OP says that available jobs at the satellite office would be something the DH would have applied for about 15 years ago.

OP I know you are a real grafter and a doer but you are way too involved in your DH's career, and you seem to be treating him like a teenager in a Saturday job who needs his mum to do everything for him and answer for him. Your suggestion of visiting your parents first to tell them how much your DH loves and misses the job, or suggesting you all sit down as a family around the kitchen table and come to an arrangement just seems completely wrong, unless you are usually in the habit of visiting your DH's employers and speaking for him.

If he wants the new job then surely he should be contacting your parents himself and staking his claim to it and showing some passion and enthusiasm. They could fill that job 100 times over and are being extremely kind to offer it to your DH.

I think with your DH being out of the corporate world for a few years and you having the security of a 16 year stint at your current job neither of you realise how tough it is out there at the moment, how many hoops most employees now have to jump through, or how lucky your DH has been to get this flexible and interesting job handed to him on a plate. You have no idea how lucky you are to get free childcare on tap either. If I was your DH I would have been working my socks off for the past four years.

@betterfantasia

Or they have low standards.

Did you register the level he was working at?

Yes. I rest my case.

There are management consultants who specialize in helping family owned businesses with this transition process. Either as a part of reorganizing with your DH, or entirely separately, it might be worth getting one on board to help your mother make a realistic plan. Because right now she'll die in her job with no succession plan and all those workers she cares about so much will be left up a creek without a paddle.

I think you’re posted before about your parents and the situation with them wanting your children before..? If that’s you, yes your parents are nuts and no your DH is not at fault. It is not in your children’s best interests to be around them as much as they are.

What kind of standard do others in the company work to?

Maybe they need reminding he is an employee at the end of the day?

I started out feeling sorry for your husband but these updates make him sound very special snowflake.

It's called work for a reason. Conditions will never be perfect. He needs to buck up and adopt an adult attitude toward earning a living and contributing to the family finances.

I too started out feeling sorry for your husband. However, after you said about him getting up at 6am to prepare for his call, organising the whole family so it was nice and quiet to accomodate his call then for him to say at 8.30am that he hadn't been very productive, googling random shite etc he just sounds lazy!
You seem to be working flat out and taking on all the stress of these issues and he is fannying about and not making any effort at all to help with the situation.
Quite frankly, your husband need a kick up the arse!
Yes your Mother seems controlling but it appears that you husband needs controlled to make sure he gets on with the job.

I might have missed it but is your husband on the spectrum ? Got ADD ? This is exactly how my son would be tbh, his mind goes down rabbit holes, he compartmentalises things and can't see past that.