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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

What a mess. Just a really, really rubbish situation

434 replies

AnonymousMamaof2 · 26/03/2021 21:12

Ok, so I need to do some scene setting first.

DH and I met whilst working in Birmingham (we just worked there, no family connections whatsoever to the place). We had our child there but always knew we didn't want to raise a family in the city. Shortly after DC1 we made the decision to leave and move to the area where I grew up (which is nowhere near where my DH is from and he has zero connections here). He was driving the move more than I was, saying it would be a nicer area to bring up kids (which it is, it's amazing: rural, beautiful, near very supportive grandparents who look after the kids 3x a week etc).

I had been doing well in my career and I am the main breadwinner. However that means I work away for 2 days a week (incl 1 night). My parents insist they help us and have the grandchildren 2.5x days a week. It's mainly because they literally DOTE on the grandchildren, I have never seen anything like it. They are almost obsessed. But likewise the bond my kids have with them is also very special. Admittedly we could just put the kids in creche a bit more, but (a) my folks would be hurt (they would move heaven and earth to have the kids) and (b) what's the point of living where we are, if we're not using the support network which was one of the plusses of moving up here. Plus I quite like the bond my kids have with my folks.

So that's me and the kids.

DH worked (in Birmingham) in a very city based role, he can only do that work for a corporate city firm. That kind of work is nowhere to be seen where we live now. So, before we moved, after several discussions with my folks, he moved to working with my Mum in her business, which is completely different to anything he's ever done. Not even the skills in his previous city role would have been transferrable, other than perhaps (very loosely) people management. So it's very different to anything he's ever done but he was super keen to get involved.

Mum has grown the business from nothing and it's thriving. She lives and breathes it and has been running it now for nearly 40 years. The original idea was that she would then take a step back and he would take a step up (i.e. the future). She kept saying that the business needed new blood. But it reeeeally hasn't worked out like that.

I can see failings on both sides. She is very abrupt and almost aggressive in the way she deals with people. She's super efficient, operates at 110mph, nothing gets left undone. She's just constantly firing on all cylinders. That said, she can be very scatty and makes mistakes. There are very few processes. V little stored electronically. She operates heavily by bits of paper here n there. No idea how to use spreadsheets etc. All v old school. But clearly it has worked for her because the business is really successful.

DH on the other hand is the total opposite. Calmer, slower, not so engaged with the staff (she's the type that would send any of her staff a generous new baby gift if they had new babies, would know their kids' names etc when she has 70+ staff to manage... he is (well) a stereotypical man and just wouldn't be interested). Her personal touch with staff is what she's really known for. She will roll her sleeves up and get in the thick of it (and is v respected for that), he would probably delegate more.

So they have very different styles. Truth be told, if anything were to happen to Mum tomorrow and he had to step up and take over, I'd have been slightly worried at him running the show (and that's after nearly 4 years of being in the business!).

Now don't get me wrong, there was never any need for them to take him in, we know that. But we didn't quite think it would go as it has. In hindsight I think a lot of it is that (a) she's a VERY had task master, hard to please; and (b) no-one will ever run your own business like yourself so, despite his different management style, he has always (now, in hindsight) been on a bit of a hiding to nothing.

Anyway, the relationship with Mum has become absolutely horrendous over the past 18 months since she has started to pick him up for things he's missing. She says that she's meant to be taking a step back and is paying him to take over her role, yet in reality she's (apparently) working more than ever, until midnight every night to keep things running as she likes it. DH says that there must be a completely different side to the business that she runs that they don't let him in on. Looking at this from afar (and knowing both characters), DH operates very much on a "list" basis. If he has 10 things on his list then that's all he thinks he has on. In reality he probably just doesn't think that far outside the box as to what Mum could be doing at night. On the other hand, I think Mum can be v anal so....

Aaaanyway she called him in a few weeks ago. Basically told him the business is being "restructured". DH would not be doing his current role and they had "created" a new role in another part of the business for him, completely unrelated to what he's been doing - and learning - for the past 4 years. He sees it as them sacking him and creating a made up role for him simply because he's their son in law and because they want us to stay living nearby so they can see the grandchildren. I tend to agree with that, but I also do think he'd be quite well suited to this new role (which I don't think is entirely a "fake" role because it's stuff that needs doing and relates to the future growth of the company, so probably more his bag).

Anyway, after they told him about these new "restructuring" plans, they told him to take a month away from "them" and from the business (!). He has been at home feeling totally lost, upset, hurt. I expected he'd accept that new role and make it work (he admits himself it sounds exciting) but he's decided (and I kinda agree) because of the sheer stress of working for family and he just wants out. He says they've pulled the rug from beneath his feet with his initial role so could do it again, and he's not getting any younger. He is also sick of constantly having to defend himself and how he operates. It's exhausting and I get it.

He has told Mum & Dad that he won't be accepting the new role and they didn't argue back. They said they'd always support him in whatever way they could, but in reality I think they are just relieved that he's out of their hair.

The question is what now. For him. For our family.

We live in a rural area. There are NO roles here which is anything like his previous city based role. He would need to travel at least 1h15 mins each way to the nearest city, and even then it's a small-ish hub that would have satellite corporate offices, not mainstream HQs etc.

He says he's been out of that corporate world now for 4 years so he'll struggle to get anything at the level he previously was at, especially where we're based. Otherwise, there is NADA going. It's demoralising. He's so bright, successful, had a glimmering career in London, and now he's on the floor and doesn't know what to do with himself.

One option (which is heart wants to do) is for us, as a family, to sell up and move to Edinburgh (where he's from) where there would be heaps of jobs (for him), better paid, he'd be close to his family and friends etc. But not for me. It's a different jurisdiction so wouldn't work for my career. As I say, I already spend 1 night 2 days away each week which I could (in paper) still do but it would entail me flying down to work each week. I just don't want to do that. I have young kids. I don't want that stress. Me leaving my job and getting something else up in Edinburgh is also not an option because I've been there for 16 years, I have a good rep there and I'm the main breadwinner. Not that this should be a reason not to move, but it would also kill my parents who live for the grandchildren every week.

We feel a bit lost. He fully supports me not leaving my role. He knows me leaving isn't an option and he keeps saying that. But it's a terrible situation because:

  • where we live now works for me, doesn't work for him job wise. He'd have to make do with anything, which would make him feel even more worthless than he does now (he is at rock bottom)
  • if we go to Edinburgh, it works perfectly for him, but not for me.
  • we don't want to move back to Birmingham, we've done that. We don't want to go back to a city where we have no family connections, we'd just be living there for work. Life is too short.

There are no answers. Just wanted to vent, and I guess any generic thoughts on the situation...

OP posts:
Roszie · 26/03/2021 23:20

So you told your mum that your DH didn't want them to see the kids while you were on a staycation (which is very odd of him I think). And a bit later they basically pulled the rug? Sounds a bit of a retaliation to me.

Definitely move. As far as you can.

raincamepouringdown · 26/03/2021 23:20

You need to move away.

Someplace you can keep your current job with a sensible commute, and your DH can look for another position of some kind or retrain.

CaptainNelson · 26/03/2021 23:22

I agree with PPs, you should look at options for moving. The support network you refer to is pretty shaky by all accounts, and your kids will get older and need it less; your parents will too, and be less able to provide. But your DH will still feel that his life was stymied by your family. That is not going to have a happy ending.
I think your DH needs to think really hard about what he wants. You say he envies his friends with their successful corporate roles, yet he has a health issue which was exacerbated by being office-based. Does he really want to return to that? Would he consider building up his DIY skills and turning that into a business?

RandomMess · 26/03/2021 23:24

Your parents aren't a support network they actually want your DC to fulfil their needs! If you move away you can still visit, cousins can come stay with you? It's not all or nothing. There will be lots of long summer holidays where they can stay.

Your MIL is a busy body so perhaps Edinburg isn't a good idea.

Why is free childcare such a priority- it's not "free" it comes with emotional blackmail. They are making themselves indispensable whilst treating your DH like shit.

Career coach for your DH.

In terms of travel time how far away is the North East from your current location?

You parents will not be happy when your DC don't adore them anymore. They will be manipulated too.

When your DH asked for a 3 week break from your family that was him waking up and realising how enmeshed and unhealthy the whole thing is.

Your parents would most likely be thrilled if you divorced as you would be more reliant on them which is what they want.

Serin · 26/03/2021 23:24

So she is losing her family in favour of her business?
One day she will realise what she has lost. It sounds like whatever your DH did would not ever have been good enough for her.
No way would I be letting the DC have any more contact with her, God knows how she could manipulate them.

partyatthepalace · 26/03/2021 23:24

You sound very clear headed OP, but oh what a situation.

It doesn’t appear to make any sense to move, at least at this stage, so I think your DP getting some career coaching to see if there is a business he could set up where you are might be a good thing. Career Shifters is a good organisation to look at. I was going to say another option would be for him to return to the corporate world in Birmingham but try and find something he could do 2 days from home - but would that be a problem with his medical issue?

Assuming you do stay in the area for now, it sounds like some pull back from your parents would be a good idea. I can see you want them to retain a relationship with the kids, but on the other hand if they were really unselfishly concerned with the kids, your mother would not have done some of the things she has done to you, as strain on you can do them no good. Your mother at least sounds very controlling and something of a queen bee. That probably does need to be more firmly managed for your immediate family’s sake as if it is creating stress for you and distress for your husband it isn’t ultimately good for them. So perhaps shift a day to crèche.

The other thing is once your kids are tweens and teens living it a very rural area may not be to their taste and can be a bit of a taxi driver lifestyle for you, so I wondered about moving somewhere nice a bit closer to Birmingham - many the edge of a market town or something similar.

Miasicarisatia · 26/03/2021 23:25

They are not a support network they're a spider's web🕸️

AnonymousMamaof2 · 26/03/2021 23:26

Can I also just add to this that my parents see no wrong in themselves. Not a bit. They mentioned a few months ago when I saw them on my own and they mentioned they were restructuring that they'd asked their friends what they thought of the situation. Their friends had all unanimously - and independent of each other- said that it's their business and so they should do exactly as they wish. If that meant entirely re writing DH role then so be it.

They are also phrasing it externally as "we wanted to restructure things, so offered him another role elsewhere doing something we thought better suited to him but he didn't accept so what else were we to do!". It's all so dogmatic.

OP posts:
FortunesFave · 26/03/2021 23:27

Can you manage on just your income for a while? Could DH set up his own business? He sounds more than capable.

GrandDuchessRomanov · 26/03/2021 23:28

Move and stand on your own four feet.

Roszie · 26/03/2021 23:30

Has he learnt enough in 4 years to set up as a rival firm?

Grin
Nomorepies · 26/03/2021 23:31

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ on the poster's request

Shehasadiamondinthesky · 26/03/2021 23:33

I really can't see why he can't commute. 1 hour 15 is nothing. I often do a 2 hour commute. You just get into a routine.

TheABC · 26/03/2021 23:35

You really need to move. Your family "support network" sounds toxic and as your kids grow up, they will be enmeshed in it. On top of that, growing up rurally is a bit of a nightmare if you have both parents in high-powered jobs as clubs and friends are further apart and you generally need one parent to act as a taxi to facilitate your child's social life.

Work out which area of the country is best for you all. For your job, DH's ambitions and your kids' school. For example, if you don't want to live in Birmingham you can explore the Tamworth triangle, or look at settling in Warwick. If you want to stay on the English side of the border, look at Newcastle.

DH needs to work out what will make him happy. 4 years is no worse than a woman taking time out for kids. He has the chance to build up his career again - if that's what he wants.

RandomMess · 26/03/2021 23:38

I'm concerned you are actually still in the FOG

Fear Obligation Guilt

You feel you owe your DP the relationship they want with your DC and that trumps putting up with their controlling toxic behaviour.

Read up on toxic parents and your DH on toxic in laws. I am surely they are lovely so long as they are getting their own way! You put yourselves out so they can look after the DC.

ConquestEmpireHungerPlague · 26/03/2021 23:41

Christ, the one thing I think for sure is that you need to move away. You say it will 'kill' your parents but I think with the way they've behaved they have really forfeited that consideration. I also think this obsessiveness about your DCs, far from being a lovely close relationship you should nurture, is actually quite unhealthy. You come across as levelheaded but the more facts you let slip, the more I think your own relationship with your mother is unhealthily codependent too. I'm not sure that you can develop decent boundaries while you remain so enmeshed. I think moving away would be good for you all tbh.

As for where and what, like a pp I also assume you're a lawyer and wonder if somewhere in England but nearer the Scottish border might work for you. I think your DH might struggle to find something suitable wherever you are though tbh, given his hiatus from his career and the changed employment landscape generally since Covid. Turning adversity to advantage, could he use what he's learned from working for your mother to start his own business? If he were self-employed, you'd have the flexibility you need too.

Your parents sound mad and toxic, sorry.

Nanny0gg · 26/03/2021 23:42

@AnonymousMamaof2

In answer to all the "why don't you just move X" questions...DH and I have talked about this. We kind of jointly think it makes no sense because why move away from a "support" network here, where (despite the situation) my parents are available to help w the kids, the cousins for my kids are here, my friends etc. If we go to somewhere random then it's just us on our own, no network, no family, and that's why we left Bham in the first place.

PiL don't know what's going on. They live in Edinburgh. DH too proud to tell them it's failed. Plus his mum (my MIL) is a bit of a busy body so we limit generally anything we tell her.

My dad sticks by mum 100% and also fuels her because he also is involved in the biz.

I'm not sure why you want to facilitate a relationship with your children and your parents when they've treated your DH so appallingly.

And to continue to use them for childcare imo is hypocritical.

SkaterGrrrrl · 26/03/2021 23:52

Hi OP I have controlling parents who persuaded me to move closer to them and I do sympathise. If I were you I would move further away from them. The free childcare comes with strings attached.

I wish your DH luck finding a new career. it's an opportunity in many ways. I switched careers later in life, taking a more junior position - am doing something I love now. If he compares his career progress with his friends he will always find someone better off.

I had career coaching, I can't begin to tell you how helpful it to talk things over with someone objective.

CinnabarRed · 27/03/2021 00:01

I think you write very eloquently, but you’re not at all clear-headed when it comes to your parents. They sound truly awful.

I’d move. Far, far away. Somewhere that works for your job whilst giving your DH more opportunities. And hire a nanny.

AnotherKrampus · 27/03/2021 00:15

Reading between the line though, your DH wasn't really doing a great job and only got it in the first place because of you. It sounds as though they have 'restructured' because your DH wasn't actually pulling his weight and even by your own admission is a jobsworth. At that sort of level, a business needs someone who isn't just ticking off stuff from a list. I also think that you are very biased. I bet if he wasn't your DH and someone unrelated, you would probably agree with your parents that he wasn't up to the job. And I would be very unimpressed if someone turned down what could be a great opportunity out of misplaced pride when there is nothing else out there. I have started my own business and have come across corporate types that flounder outside a big structured team, I actually understand your mother.

betterfantasia · 27/03/2021 00:22

This was 99% a disaster from the start. In a family business, only blood relatives are allowed to be flawed and take a leading role. Otherwise, you need to be near-perfect and the current CEO needs to be almost dead. Your DH came in too early so your DM had time to assess him without really needing him. Perhaps he was always a convenient cipher and you are not entirely innocent of this either. Run a b and b? He wants a career, just like you. I think he's a bit too nice, insisting you couldn't possibly give up the longevity you've earned in your role and try somewhere new when he has lost everything.

He was perhaps not sharp enough for top-level leadership on a merit-based system (no criticism as you often need to be a functioning narcissist and control-freak to make a success of a family business). You could not have foreseen this but neither are you as neutral and fiercely loyal as you make out, seeing this and that 'from afar'. You were clearly enmeshed with your family and even now, when your DH is going down, are reluctant to leave a support system that is clearly toxic, because it suits you.

You could live anywhere. The options are not Edinburgh, your current location and Birmingham. Stop pretending they are. You have no support system elsewhere so it's unthinkable? Most people have no 'support system' in the form of toxic parents who are probably making your DH sicker in spirit that a corporate job ever could.

You need to bite the bullet. This security is utterly toxic. You have everything the way you want it and your DH is miserable. If he has any boundaries, this scenario has a shelf life. You say that you haven't shared the situation with his family. That has created a scenario where no one has looked in 'from afar' with your DH's interests at heart and said 'hang on, you're being taken for a mug here and where is this going to end?' I would not be at all impressed if my DD's FIL messed around with her career like this to the point that she had lost all self-confidence, only to be told by my son in law not to worry, she didn't have to get a job because he earned all the pennies anyway and it was convenient to have her at home so he could keep his big job going. If she was adamantly insisting that her husband's job was the one thing in all of this that couldn't change no matter what happened to her, I'd be asking why - what happened to her right to happiness and financial independence.

Your children are away from the home a sizeable chunk of the week and then you are also working away - perhaps you need to work out who you are as a family again. If your parents have the children when you're working away and it's unthinkable for an au pair to do this, they're basically facilitating your career at the expense of your husband's fulfilment and opportunities.

You took a gamble, it didn't work. None of it worked. Unless your DP miraculously finds a role that suits him near home, I think you will both have to start again in a new location, as inconvenient as it is, and use what you would have spent on a buy to let mortgage 2nd home on childcare.

katy1213 · 27/03/2021 00:23

I seem to be out on a limb here - but your husband made a foolish career decision, wasn't up to the job and your mother has generously invented another role for him - and somehow it's all her fault?

AnotherKrampus · 27/03/2021 00:33

@katy1213 Exactly! this is what I took from the situation too. OP has exactly what she wanted but this has come at the expense of her DH. So, now she is blaming her parents, especially her mother, rather than be a bit more honest and admit that DH is unsuitable for any leading role in her mother's business and there is nothing else around there. That's on OP though.

betterfantasia · 27/03/2021 00:33

our DH wasn't actually pulling his weight and even by your own admission is a jobsworth.

That's not fair. There is a massive gap between being sharp and hungry enough to drive a profit in a family business, and being a jobsworth. You can be diligent, tick all the boxes, good at your job - but just not driven and 'big picture' enough to see everything and obsess over everything. I've seen people taken on and do well and be ear-marked for promotion to a leadership role, but eventually there comes the day when you realise they would not have found their way to the top on their own and would not make a success of it at that level, despite being very promising and wondering at their current level. It's very hard to make a success of a family business in the first generation and even harder to hand it over, both in terms of finding the right person and getting that driven business owner to entrust someone else with their baby. I think it tends to only really happen if the person is insanely gifted and everyone can see it, the firstborn son and so it is the naturally order of things (business very likely to fail) or the business is sold when the founder loses their grip in a very obvious way. This scenario - handing it over to someone who isn't quite family and isn't showily talented, by someone who is still capable - that just doesn't work. It doesn't make the OP's husband lazy or lacking in talent.

starfishmummy · 27/03/2021 00:39

You say your relationship with your parents has broken down, but still you talk about staying nearby because they look after your kids. I'd say that needs to change.

They are having a fine old time controlling you and the kids and I suspect the restructuring of your husbands role was because he wasn't being the compliant sil they wanted.

You and your dh need to sit down and consider the future together and without interference from your parents - and also finding a way that you can look after your kids without needing your parents!!

Thinking of your husbands career - could he become self employed working from home, take on consultancy work; maybe even a complete career change. As you are already the main breadwinner what options are there for you to have a better paid role somewhere and your husband work part time?

And as for moving away from your parents - put on the hard hats because if you do decide to go, they are not going to let go of your kids easily....