Ex is refusing to bring 19 month old son home!

[Notlong2go]

I posted a thread yesterday about how my ex is demanding to have our 4 and a half month old every weekend which I won’t agree to.
Today he picked up our 19 month old like usual and then later called me to tell me I won’t be getting him back until I take him to court or let him see our youngest.

So I have never refused to let him see any of the children but, I just don’t want him having our youngest overnight at this young age, especially when he has never spent any time alone with him.
He told me last night he was going to pick both children up and I told him it wouldn’t be possible to have my baby today and we would have to arrange something but, because of this he has said I am stopping him seeing his son so now refuses to bring our older son home!

This has made me even more certain I don’t trust him to take my baby away from my home alone!!

Do you have a contact agreement in place? I’m guessing you don’t, so please contact a solicitor ASAP. He can’t demand you leave your youngest with him overnight at that age, but he also can’t just keep your oldest son from you, his primary carer, for too long. Good luck OP. He’s trying to control you, don’t let him.

@EileenGC thank you for your advice.
We don’t have an agreement in place no and I have tried to contact numerous solicitors today but, due to the time many were closed so tomorrow I will be calling up anyone I can.
I’ve had some advice from woman’s aid which was really helpful so now I am going to try and see if I am entitled to legal aid because, I don’t think I could afford the price of a solicitor. I do think things need to be easier and more clear for parents in this situation setting out what help is available as I felt so helpless before talking to woman’s aid.

Good luck OP
Women’s aid should definitely be able to guide you through this. I’m sorry your son is not with you tonight. If you don’t trust your ex, or believe - at any point - that your little one is at risk, don’t hesitate and call the police. Hopefully he will be fine and his dad is caring for him.

I’ll keep you all in my thoughts and prayers tonight if that’s okay.

What an absolute cunt he is. I’m so sorry OP. I hate the way the world works sometimes.

Might want to post this in the legal section too, usually good at explaining the steps to take next. Sorry this is happening.

That's horrendous OP. I hope this gets resolved very quickly. Is he the type to make empty threats?

What a bastard. If you feel he's in danger call 999 x

So sorry I know how stressful this is. You need to apply to the courts ASAP x

I'm sorry you're going through this. My ex did this twice with me, once without a court order in place and recently, with a court order in place. If his name is on the birth certificate I regret to say the police won't do a thing. Even with a court order the police didn't want to get involved when my ex did this. It was shocking really.

I feel for you as I know what's it like - I would really advise that it's best to get a court order now while the kids are still young do boundaries are in place.

You can represent yourself, then all you have to do is pay for the court itself, you can go for an urgent one which isn't too expensive. Representing yourself sounds scary but honestly more and more people do it now due to the legal costs and I think unless there are serious welfare issues all the judge will do is order an arrangement or even mediation.

You can also seek to compromise with your ex , no overnights but can he have the youngest during the day on set days.

I just would say be careful because you don't want to be controlled or live in fear that he will do this every time and just make sure you get an agreement if you can. Ideally by court order.

Make sure from this point all communication is via email or message.

Pm if you need further advice x

This isn't great advice so I don't expect you to do it but if it were me I would tell him whatever he wanted to hear in order to bring your eldest home, as soon as you have him back in your care shut the door and tell him to do one. How nasty can somebody be to keep a toddler away from his mum out of spite.

Let him be the one to approach the court and when he does make sure you have all of his messages at the ready.

I’m so sorry OP. There is an article below with the overview, but basically I think it says if the dad has parental responsibility (eg you were married) then you need to get a lawyer. If the dad doesn’t have parental responsibility then the police / social services may be able to help. If you are concerned for the child’s safety they have more powers.

nayyarssolicitors.co.uk/2019/06/26/parent-refusing-to-return-child-what-to-do/

Probably still worth callinng the nonurgent police number 101 but they may not be able to help much. They might eg go have an informal chat with your ex I dunno if that would help or make it worse.

Did you say in your other thread that he lives with his parents? Can they help him see sense? How old is he?

@Notanaturalm

This isn't great advice so I don't expect you to do it but if it were me I would tell him whatever he wanted to hear in order to bring your eldest home, as soon as you have him back in your care shut the door and tell him to do one. How nasty can somebody be to keep a toddler away from his mum out of spite.

Let him be the one to approach the court and when he does make sure you have all of his messages at the ready.

Tbh it's what I did when the first time it happened, ex had me driving around the city on two days to get my Dc home. Sad now really but without a court order in place and his name on the BC there aren't any options. Even with a court order ex did it and police don't care but the judges don't look too favourable on that

Really doesn’t show him to be a caring responsible father, who’s able to put the needs of his child above his own, by doing this. He has decided his desire to get his own way over the baby trumps his child’s need to be with its main attachment figure.

Evidence for the contact order that you are the responsible one, I would hope.

So sorry you’re going through this

@Notanaturalm

This isn't great advice so I don't expect you to do it but if it were me I would tell him whatever he wanted to hear in order to bring your eldest home, as soon as you have him back in your care shut the door and tell him to do one. How nasty can somebody be to keep a toddler away from his mum out of spite.

Let him be the one to approach the court and when he does make sure you have all of his messages at the ready.

The child is with his dad? Surely if there are valid concerns about his welfare,@Notlong2go would of rang the police before updating Mumsnet?

Thank you everybody.
I did contact the police and raised my concerns as I don’t think he’s a responsible parent for example, driving off erratically when he took him.

I have been advised I may be entitled to legal aid due to previous DV but, as you have advised @worried3012 I will represent myself if this is not available. Also thank you I will not allow him to have any more control.
I have tried to compromise but, he won’t accept anything other than what he is asking for right now, and tbh I think I would rather leave it to a court to set out days after the way he has used my son as a weapon today.
That is disgusting that the police didn’t he lo even with a court order in place! I thought that a court order was there to stop this sort of thing happening?

@CuriousSeal yes he can make empty threats but, he is also very stubborn, arrogant, cocky, thinks the world owes him something and he is always right so I could believe he would keep my son away from me for as long as possible.

I have no experience to share nor advice to offer but you and your son are in my thoughts. How awful. I bet your wee boy has no idea how stressed you are and will happily bound into your arms like nothing happened. I hope it happens sooner rather than later. I'm so sorry op

Can you get someone to come and mind your four year old, then go and knock on his door? I'd kick up all manner of fuss on his doorstep.

Probably not the most rational response, but rationality wouldn't be possible for me.

What does the Court order stipulate?

Document everything so you have a paper trail in place. Is he on the Birth Certificate?

@Merryoldgoat

What an absolute cunt he is. I’m so sorry OP. I hate the way the world works sometimes.

This x

@SakuraEdenSwan1 I do have concerns and I did immediately contact the police when he told me he wouldn’t be returning him.

@Notanaturalm I have told him I’m not stopping him seeing our youngest but, he is adamant the only way he will hand him over is basically if I hand over our baby.

@DownWhichOfLate he lives with his grandmother and auntie and his grandmother isnt the nicest of women and wouldn’t be of any help at all. I have spoken to his mother but she is scared to say anything to her son as he has zero respect for her anyway. And he’s 29.

@Notlong2go

Thank you everybody. I did contact the police and raised my concerns as I don’t think he’s a responsible parent for example, driving off erratically when he took him.

I have been advised I may be entitled to legal aid due to previous DV but, as you have advised @worried3012 I will represent myself if this is not available. Also thank you I will not allow him to have any more control.
I have tried to compromise but, he won’t accept anything other than what he is asking for right now, and tbh I think I would rather leave it to a court to set out days after the way he has used my son as a weapon today.
That is disgusting that the police didn’t he lo even with a court order in place! I thought that a court order was there to stop this sort of thing happening?

@CuriousSeal yes he can make empty threats but, he is also very stubborn, arrogant, cocky, thinks the world owes him something and he is always right so I could believe he would keep my son away from me for as long as possible.

Yep I was dismayed to find that all the police could do regardless of a court order was suggest to go back to court?! This was quite recently. But after that we did go to court and the judge was not impressed. I definitely agree that a court order is the way forward despite what happened to me because it sets out boundaries and most people won't be stupid enough to break a court order. Then you have set days and times.

I also agree that if you do get your child back you should let him take you to court and pay for the fees since he is the one wanting changes. Obviously if you don't get your child back anytime soon then you'll have to apply for a c100 (urgent)

@HamFisted in all honesty I would love to just go and take him but, I don’t want to cause any trouble in front of my son for that to be used against me. The thing is though that his dad works nights and my son is with his great nan whilst his dad is working and he barely knows her.

I have been advised to make an urgent application to the courts tomorrow which I will get onto immediately.

@SakuraEdenSwan1 he is on the birth certificate of our older boy but, not on the babies.

This has all stemmed from me trying to move on and now he is just trying to punish me anyway he can. He knows my children are my life and that’s how he can hurt me.

@worried3012 he did say he was going to take me to court but, I don’t see him actually putting his hands in his pockets. He refuses to even pay for his children now too.

How ridiculous that a court order doesn’t even give them power to do something. What happened when you went back to court?

Ok. It sounded like he was younger. You mention his aunt, mother and grandmother. No male relatives around? You really need someone to speak to him and the relatives so far don’t sound promising. Your side of the family? Can your parents intervene?