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Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help. Confronting DH.

194 replies

Questions99 · 15/03/2021 19:43

I can’t get into lots of detail for safety but I am preparing for a confrontation with DH and I’m terrified. We have 2 school age DD.
He’s emotionally abusing me and it’s only in the last few months, with some counselling sessions I took alone, input of two trusted friends who don’t even know each other but have said the same that I’m wondering if he’s gaslighting. I had to look it up.
The primary issue is money. We have been married 20 years, own a home together a couple of flats which gives him a small income. I’ve worked full time most our marriage in a good job and been the ‘breadwinner’.
He’s addicted to collectibles and has periodically hidden spend from me arguing that we’re not in debt so why do I care?
I’ve spent several months feeling more and more sure he’s lying and has found himself a way to get extra income which he hides from me and leaves me to pay 70%-100% of our bills.
I literally only set up my own savings account last month having only ever had a joint account with him and paid in 100% of my salary for all these years. I know. Stupid. He was raging angry.
He tells me my job isn’t as important as I think it is, that I “need to fail” to stop everyone thinking I can do it all... various things like that.
The collecting has escalated in the past 9 months and I have gone into the various web accounts and noted all his spend for the past year (we share accounts, I’m not outwith my rights to check). I obviously can’t check his bank accounts.
I was having palpitations as I tried to gather all the information over several days without being caught. He’s rarely not at home so this is more difficult than it sounds.
I have also photographed as much of his collection as I can find but he keeps things hidden in drawers, safes, in envelopes and boxes so it is impossible for me to photo everything without him noticing.
He has a loud angry temper (but has never lashed out) and we have argued more in the last year than in 20 years. We both put it down to lockdown and our last argument on 8th March he said we have to just “agree to disagree” until the kids are back to school and we can talk without them hearing us fighting because I was so distressed at what our fighting was doing to the kids.
I’m not a fighter. I’m articulate but passive and people-pleasing and can be quiet/moody when I’m tried or stressed with work but the realisation dawning that he has taken absolute advantage of me is making me ill.
I just want him to pay 50/50 and he refuses saying he can’t afford it whilst another £1000 of collectibles arrive. He comes up with elaborate reasons why he needs to keep his money private (i gave up after 10 years asking him to join his account so we had equal transparency).
When I try and reason with him he flat out lies saying his income was temporarily higher and from April will be back to basic income (the amount I thought he was on all the time).
I am 99% sure he’s cash-funding this addiction as he hates debt (though when we met he had lots of debt.. my first sign I missed..). But of course I can’t be totally sure what he’s doing or how.
Today I analysed our joint account for the past 12 months and discovered Ive paid in 3 times what he has - he has taken OUT a 3rd of my salary paid in.
I’m trying to be subtle but he knows I’m getting all the facts together as he has started deleting all receipts and invoices as soon as they come into our email - and he’s emptying the email bin several times a day too.
The bottom line is he’s lying and has been for a long time. I think he’s also possibly got a spending addiction. According to Google this is ‘financial infidelity’ which I hadn’t heard of before but it’s exactly right.
I feel belittled, disrespected, betrayed, scared and devastated for our children who are amazing in every way and deserve so much better but I just can’t go on with it anymore. I love him but can’t respect him anymore for this. He seems to care about me - I know he adores the kids and can be lazy but is generally a good Dad.
But I have to confront him. Pay day in next week and he will freak out if I don’t pay in 70%
I have to find a way to make him stop spending our money and then lying, stonewalling, yelling... basically leaving me feel I’m somehow in the wrong.
I need help to know how to handle this.
Tomorrow is the first day both kids will be at school and literally the first time we’ve been alone in months. I have waited and bit my tongue but it needs to come out.
I’m keeping up appearances but I need help.
How do I prepare for the conversation?
The argument has always been me asking can he contribute more money - to which he says he contributes more non-financially than me (because he is only out at work a half day a week, I work at home but full time in a demanding job).
I pull my weight and keep the house clean and today and I’m the lead parent in terms of nurturing and spending quality time with the kids.
But today, I found envelopes with large amounts of cash hidden away. Not like savings here and there but pristine notes from a machine. My immediate thought was he has this ready to grab and go if he’s had enough or if I ever told him to leave. He’s never mentioned leaving other than once, four years ago but didn’t go through with it.
But I don’t know.
That’s the whole point - I don’t know what he’s doing but I do know he’s got a lot more money than he makes out and swears til he’s blue in the face that he can’t contribute more than 30% to our bills. I don’t know if I can be married to a prolific liar. It’s crushing my confidence. It’s crushing me.

What do I do to prepare to confront him?
He can be incredibly domineering and won’t talk if he doesn’t want to.
I’m an absolute wreck with anxiety and need some kind of breakthrough.
Has anyone ever faced financial infidelity? How did you deal with it? Is separating inevitable? Do I need to engage a solicitor? The police?
I hope someone can help me Sad

OP posts:
Mix56 · 17/03/2021 14:07

200 boxes of collectables? TWO HUNDRED ? I am stunned.

For the stash, He can easily get cash back at the supermarket,
He can sell some of his collection (doubles) & even if paid on line, remove the cash, so that you won't know if you ever see his bank balance. or to hide profit from HMRC.

Is he being nice because he has seen his cash has been disturbed & he knows you are on to him ?

Your children will not thank you for sacrificing your life, living as an abused shell of the mother they deserve.

CrabPuff · 17/03/2021 18:08

Your littlest will need a good relationship modelled. A strong mother figure who makes uncomfortable but sensible moves to protect her children both emotionally and financially.

A lot of women seem to think money doesn’t matter in terms of they’d rather not be grabby or perceived as grabby for a quiet life. You need to see this as your daughter’s house deposit that he is pissing up the wall. The difference in the quality of her elderly care when you’re gone. If she gets into an abusive relationship herself will she have the courage to leave (because her mother left and she knows it’s not easy but it is simple). And will she have enough money to be able to do it. The more you let him fritter, the less you can help your children.

MadeForThis · 17/03/2021 18:56

The collectables are assets too. You need to have a record of what he has and their valuation. It all goes onto the pot.

If he forces a sale of the house you can force him to sell these.

Mintychococolate · 18/03/2021 00:51

This is one of the saddest and most concerning threads I've read in a long time. Your husband has been stealing from you for years, planning his getaway. He has thousands of pounds of assets tucked away you know nothing about plus assets in the house you are too scared to even look at.

People talking about form Es etc are missing the point. He knows exactly what he's doing and it will all vanish in a puff of smoke if he gets a whiff of you leaving. All you will have is photos of cardboard boxes. That's not proof of anything.

He will go for primary caregiver status and you'll be in a rented shithole paying for him to live in your house. There will be no expectation legally for him to earn because he never has and you accepted it.

He's been planning this for years. You are a target. Not a wife. And he ramps up the anger to keep you under control. He's systematically defrauding you.

Why do you value yourself so little? Why do you have only a few hundred kinds while he has tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands undocumented and hidden from you? Don't you care about yourself? Your life? Your children? Your old age?

You can't sort this on your own. You'll need help. An accountant. Someone to move 'his' collectibles somewhere they can be catalogued. Someone to change the locks. A solicitor. It's a big job. I hope you discover your courage and do it because you are going to end up with NOTHING if not. He's a con man. 😕

Mintychococolate · 18/03/2021 01:04

I think, much as it's often advised against, you probably need to 'lose your keys' and change the locks when he's out. Very difficult for him to prove anything and unlikely he will get far once he starts screaming, at which point you can say you are scared.

You need full access to what's in there and the paperwork. You can say that you found something (maybe the cash?) while he was out too (while you were looking for your keys) and are terrified it's drug money, or fraud etc. Rightly so I might add. But one of the many pieces of excellent advice mentions getting an accountant to look at all of this BEFORE starting divorce proceedings and I'd agree - it needs to look like a concerned wife stumbling across all of this. Not like an amateur detective digging for proof 😉

And NO you should not move out!!! He can't even pay the fucking mortgage so why should he stay?? Don't let him bully you,

PerveenMistry · 18/03/2021 02:36

@Mintychococolate

This is one of the saddest and most concerning threads I've read in a long time. Your husband has been stealing from you for years, planning his getaway. He has thousands of pounds of assets tucked away you know nothing about plus assets in the house you are too scared to even look at.

People talking about form Es etc are missing the point. He knows exactly what he's doing and it will all vanish in a puff of smoke if he gets a whiff of you leaving. All you will have is photos of cardboard boxes. That's not proof of anything.

He will go for primary caregiver status and you'll be in a rented shithole paying for him to live in your house. There will be no expectation legally for him to earn because he never has and you accepted it.

He's been planning this for years. You are a target. Not a wife. And he ramps up the anger to keep you under control. He's systematically defrauding you.

Why do you value yourself so little? Why do you have only a few hundred kinds while he has tens of thousands, possibly hundreds of thousands undocumented and hidden from you? Don't you care about yourself? Your life? Your children? Your old age?

You can't sort this on your own. You'll need help. An accountant. Someone to move 'his' collectibles somewhere they can be catalogued. Someone to change the locks. A solicitor. It's a big job. I hope you discover your courage and do it because you are going to end up with NOTHING if not. He's a con man. 😕

Yes, this is an excellent analysis.

If someone were defrauding me Of my security and hard-earned cash, I would be white-hot angry and eager to seek justice. Doesn't this galvanize you, OP??

How can it not?

Yorkshirelass04 · 18/03/2021 06:20

Is he money laundering for someone via the collectibles?

Mintychococolate · 18/03/2021 07:12

I think if he was money laundering he would be selling these. He's stockpiling. Someone mentioned going to the supermarket and getting cash back - I'd say he's doing that too. Shame you will never see the receipts. Ask for them and watch him explode.

He's rinsing you every way he possibly can. I'm appalled just reading it. It's truly shocking, like watching a car crash. I can't believe you're sitting there passively sitting there letting him.

Maybe a good move is to start some small financial deception of your own (pretend pay cut, pretend expenses) and get some counselling with a specialist? Not a normal therapist but one who knows this subject? You really need some help emotionally right now, this is so wrong. And instead of stopping it you are terrified. And wanting to sabotage it by talking to him. You are married to a seriously disturbed and possibly dangerous man. With no conscience at all. DO NOT LET HIM KNOW YOU ARE ON TO HIM.

Talk to WA and follow their advice for getting proof too and start gathering the evidence. But get therapy too. It's not normal and he's done a number on you over many years. Fix that part first then go after him. And find YOUR money Flowers

And what the fuck are you doing giving him two rental properties you see no rent from? How does this even happen? Jesus he must be a master manipulator. Quite some criminal indeed.

cooldarkroom · 18/03/2021 14:08

OP, has mentioned she thinks he is addicted to spending/collecting.
Maybe he gets angry about his "collection" being under threat?
Is he buying & selling these cartoons? or just piling them up ?

Questions99 · 22/03/2021 21:55

You’re right about the nest egg, he said it’s for his retirement.
I said he can collect when he retires and build a pension meanwhile by working whilst he’s young and able-bodied.

OP posts:
Questions99 · 22/03/2021 21:57

This was hard to read but helpful, thank you. I need to answer those questions and I’m actually starting to believe I might deserve better...

OP posts:
Questions99 · 22/03/2021 22:01

This struck a chord. My mum left and ended in something even worse. She’s not there for me by example or for support. I won’t do that to my DD.

OP posts:
RandomMess · 22/03/2021 22:38

You and your DC deserve so so so much better Thanks

thosetalesofunexpected · 23/03/2021 02:21

@HollowTalk

Are you for Real or something !!??

You gave advice to op,
to trust her friend with safe keeping of the money that her husband been squirreling away from op.!

I really do Not think that is Astute Sensible Advice for op to do,
for these reasons,
For e.g. what if her friend forget it was op money for safe keeping,and thought it was her own money, or from another resource money wise pot.!

Also how trustworthy is her friend safe keeping op money then?
friend maybe not trustworthy its crap way to find out,being betrayed like that.!

How safe is op money in her friends house !
what if friend house was burgled or
if this money was stolen from friends house by someone else

Questions99 · 23/03/2021 08:44

I ended up in hospital with stress. When I got home I laid it all on the line. Now I wait.

OP posts:
kshaw · 23/03/2021 16:12

How are you op?

KatherineSiena · 23/03/2021 16:28

Sorry to hear you’ve been in hospital. I’m not surprised you’re so stressed, he is behaving abominably and is putting you under enormous strain.

I really hope you are getting some legal and practical advice. You must protect yourself because as other have so astutely pointed out he’s only protecting his own interests.

Questions99 · 23/03/2021 16:33

@kshaw thank you Flowers I am recovering slowly. It was like a nightmare I couldn’t wake up from. I’m starting to feel more in control emotionally. I’m being analytical rather than emotional. This is new for me.

Maybe I’m “checked out” I don’t know.
We’ve managed to talk it all out and I’m a lot clearer now on where he can - and where he just won’t change.
We’ve made agreement of major change to the money and it will be 50-50 now which is huge progress. Only time will tell whether that resolves at least some of it.
Our differences are huge but that’s always been the case. The collecting has been ‘paused’ I’d say. He knows there’s a problem there and Ive set up an opportunity for help and left it with him to take it or not.
How I feel right now about the future is unclear. I’ve been so physically unwell because of this that I was aware I’m weak and need to be clear headed. I was to get well. I will have some funds building up as I take my time to gather strength.

OP posts:
katy1213 · 23/03/2021 16:42

Keep hold of the cash - close the joint account - and leave him and his worthless collection of crap.

Mix56 · 23/03/2021 17:19

So Sorry he basically broke you.
Is he showing any remorse? Has he explained the wads of cash ? Is he opening up re accounts?
Whatever, you now need to allow him access to 50% of the bills & NO MORE. Close the joint account.
You need to show him that you mean it, & are not listening to his empty promises & let it backpedal after a few weeks.
Actions speak louder than words

Questions99 · 23/03/2021 17:34

@mix56 yes I think he did break me, or the toxic relationship did.. it’s hard for me to be objective please understand that. Would I be here if we didn’t have young kids? No. But to end it without even having a chance to tell him how broken it’s making me wouldn’t have been good for me either. If this ends it ends because there is no way through and I will know I did everything in my power. The money is now all arranged and only time will tell if he can and will stick to that. If he can’t control the collecting and needs help, he now knows where and how to get that help. At least my own (and the kids) financial security has a chance to recover now because I will have control over my own income at last.

OP posts:
Mix56 · 23/03/2021 18:07

No judgement from me... Its so hard, a choice between trying to rekindle the love, (too late IMO), trying to keep family unit together for DC, being screwed over & risking financial ruin, & your personal happiness.
I really do understand. I have lived it.

RandomMess · 23/03/2021 18:51

I can completely understand why his deceit and treating you as the "chump" that works, does all the parenting and all the housework.

I hope as well as finances being 50:50 he is now stepping up to do a hell of a lot more around the house so you have equal leisure time.

If it still ends you know 100% you have him every opportunity to resolve things and you head is held high.

DH behaviour in the past broke me, I'm still recovering years on!

Haylbop · 23/03/2021 19:03

This actually sounds like it has escalated into financial abuse which is a crime. You need to open a sole bank account for your salary and use the joint as a bills account where you each pay in 50% of the bills total. If he has enough money to buy rubbish then he has enough to pay his way

TheBlessedCheesemaker · 24/03/2021 01:49

I’d be very careful here about any attempt he may make to portray himself as the SAHP and primary carer. If all his money is self employed and partly cash, he could claim that he is earning ‘pin money’ and has given up his earnings to support your career. He may even lower his own earnings and try to paint you as the financial abuser for withholding money from the family. Could he also pretend that his addictions are joint hobbies that you fully support?
Be very alert to any of the above - he sounds like an absolute cunt and I think there is a very real risk that you could end up being forced out of the family home yourself. If he is truly committed to a new chapter for you both it doesn’t start with him paying in 50-50, it starts with full and open transparency of all his assets and income and tax returns and a full asset registration of the shit he’s bought so that you can agree what ‘spare’ money each of you should have each month to do your own thing with.