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Relationships

Mumsnet has not checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you need help urgently or expert advice, please see our domestic violence webguide and/or relationships webguide. Many Mumsnetters experiencing domestic abuse have found this thread helpful: Listen up, everybody

Help. Confronting DH.

194 replies

Questions99 · 15/03/2021 19:43

I can’t get into lots of detail for safety but I am preparing for a confrontation with DH and I’m terrified. We have 2 school age DD.
He’s emotionally abusing me and it’s only in the last few months, with some counselling sessions I took alone, input of two trusted friends who don’t even know each other but have said the same that I’m wondering if he’s gaslighting. I had to look it up.
The primary issue is money. We have been married 20 years, own a home together a couple of flats which gives him a small income. I’ve worked full time most our marriage in a good job and been the ‘breadwinner’.
He’s addicted to collectibles and has periodically hidden spend from me arguing that we’re not in debt so why do I care?
I’ve spent several months feeling more and more sure he’s lying and has found himself a way to get extra income which he hides from me and leaves me to pay 70%-100% of our bills.
I literally only set up my own savings account last month having only ever had a joint account with him and paid in 100% of my salary for all these years. I know. Stupid. He was raging angry.
He tells me my job isn’t as important as I think it is, that I “need to fail” to stop everyone thinking I can do it all... various things like that.
The collecting has escalated in the past 9 months and I have gone into the various web accounts and noted all his spend for the past year (we share accounts, I’m not outwith my rights to check). I obviously can’t check his bank accounts.
I was having palpitations as I tried to gather all the information over several days without being caught. He’s rarely not at home so this is more difficult than it sounds.
I have also photographed as much of his collection as I can find but he keeps things hidden in drawers, safes, in envelopes and boxes so it is impossible for me to photo everything without him noticing.
He has a loud angry temper (but has never lashed out) and we have argued more in the last year than in 20 years. We both put it down to lockdown and our last argument on 8th March he said we have to just “agree to disagree” until the kids are back to school and we can talk without them hearing us fighting because I was so distressed at what our fighting was doing to the kids.
I’m not a fighter. I’m articulate but passive and people-pleasing and can be quiet/moody when I’m tried or stressed with work but the realisation dawning that he has taken absolute advantage of me is making me ill.
I just want him to pay 50/50 and he refuses saying he can’t afford it whilst another £1000 of collectibles arrive. He comes up with elaborate reasons why he needs to keep his money private (i gave up after 10 years asking him to join his account so we had equal transparency).
When I try and reason with him he flat out lies saying his income was temporarily higher and from April will be back to basic income (the amount I thought he was on all the time).
I am 99% sure he’s cash-funding this addiction as he hates debt (though when we met he had lots of debt.. my first sign I missed..). But of course I can’t be totally sure what he’s doing or how.
Today I analysed our joint account for the past 12 months and discovered Ive paid in 3 times what he has - he has taken OUT a 3rd of my salary paid in.
I’m trying to be subtle but he knows I’m getting all the facts together as he has started deleting all receipts and invoices as soon as they come into our email - and he’s emptying the email bin several times a day too.
The bottom line is he’s lying and has been for a long time. I think he’s also possibly got a spending addiction. According to Google this is ‘financial infidelity’ which I hadn’t heard of before but it’s exactly right.
I feel belittled, disrespected, betrayed, scared and devastated for our children who are amazing in every way and deserve so much better but I just can’t go on with it anymore. I love him but can’t respect him anymore for this. He seems to care about me - I know he adores the kids and can be lazy but is generally a good Dad.
But I have to confront him. Pay day in next week and he will freak out if I don’t pay in 70%
I have to find a way to make him stop spending our money and then lying, stonewalling, yelling... basically leaving me feel I’m somehow in the wrong.
I need help to know how to handle this.
Tomorrow is the first day both kids will be at school and literally the first time we’ve been alone in months. I have waited and bit my tongue but it needs to come out.
I’m keeping up appearances but I need help.
How do I prepare for the conversation?
The argument has always been me asking can he contribute more money - to which he says he contributes more non-financially than me (because he is only out at work a half day a week, I work at home but full time in a demanding job).
I pull my weight and keep the house clean and today and I’m the lead parent in terms of nurturing and spending quality time with the kids.
But today, I found envelopes with large amounts of cash hidden away. Not like savings here and there but pristine notes from a machine. My immediate thought was he has this ready to grab and go if he’s had enough or if I ever told him to leave. He’s never mentioned leaving other than once, four years ago but didn’t go through with it.
But I don’t know.
That’s the whole point - I don’t know what he’s doing but I do know he’s got a lot more money than he makes out and swears til he’s blue in the face that he can’t contribute more than 30% to our bills. I don’t know if I can be married to a prolific liar. It’s crushing my confidence. It’s crushing me.

What do I do to prepare to confront him?
He can be incredibly domineering and won’t talk if he doesn’t want to.
I’m an absolute wreck with anxiety and need some kind of breakthrough.
Has anyone ever faced financial infidelity? How did you deal with it? Is separating inevitable? Do I need to engage a solicitor? The police?
I hope someone can help me Sad

OP posts:
RandomMess · 16/03/2021 12:53

I think from OP last thread he does painting & decorating. So it seems he often/sometimes gets paid in cash.

Mix56 · 16/03/2021 12:57

OK, makes sense for the wodges then,
but he is still lying & hiding it so that he can fiance his "hobby", which he also makes money from

RandomMess · 16/03/2021 13:01

I was wondering if OP could negotiate a temporary reduction in hours so they would both be working "part time" and he no longer appears on paper as the primary carer.

oil0W0lio · 16/03/2021 13:02

I agree with previous posters, don't confront him, do all the work in the background and move on with your life without him

TillyTopper · 16/03/2021 13:27

Move out with the DCs. Find a solicitor who can get you a good settlement. Divorce him. Being terrified of talking to someone about finances or anything else is not a way to live the one life you have.

Bubbletiers · 16/03/2021 14:12

@TillyTopper

Move out with the DCs. Find a solicitor who can get you a good settlement. Divorce him. Being terrified of talking to someone about finances or anything else is not a way to live the one life you have.
I second this.
Lentillover1900 · 16/03/2021 14:15

Tricky
But long term with your full time job - you’re in a strong position.

Has he been doing most of the childcare? That’s important consideration

Tryinghardfornothing89 · 16/03/2021 15:12

Right, so if I've read this correctly, he gets the income from rent of 2 properties and cant afford to pay 50%?
In my view, even if it left him with very little disposable income he should be paying 50%. If he wants more disposable income he would have to get off of his arse and work for it!
Personally I would be gathering as much information as possible about the things he is collecting and tell him he needs to sell some to pay his fair share until he gets a job to pay for it.

I canr see how you can get out of this situation without getting the ball rolling for a divorce. He will either come clean and start pulling his weight or he wont change and you will know he never would have. If he wont change in the face of losing you, he absolutely never would have if you stayed.

I didnt see your other post so I dont have the full picture. If he is abusive, leave.

harknesswitch · 16/03/2021 16:51

Don't confront him, it'll only end up in abuse. Simply have your wages transferred into a bank account in your name and pay 50% into the bills account. If he has a problem and says he can't afford the other 50% tell him he'll have to speak to the creditors and miss a payment

Do speak to women's aid and a really good solicitor.

The starting point for all financial divorce proceedings is 50% of everything, this includes all 3 properties AND his lovely set of collections, his savings and pensions. But also his debts. I'd also think about getting a forensic accountant who can then also identify ALL his account as I'm sure he's been squirreling money away from you

Questions99 · 16/03/2021 17:54

I think you’ve hit the nail on the head. He’s building his own nest egg. He has said about having rights to my pension and as the SAHP but he could still have worked 9:30-2:30 like lots of parents do. I actually can’t believe I have been such a fool and paid 100% of my salary in (which covers about 80% of our bills).
That’s now at 70% but it must be 50/50. If only to give me a chance to build up some savings of my own.. which unless he does indeed meet ‘all 3 ghosts of Christmas’ (which made me laugh as it’s his favourite film!) I don’t know if I can see a way through this.

OP posts:
Lentillover1900 · 16/03/2021 18:00

Ah the mystical 9.30-2.30 jobs.

RandomMess · 16/03/2021 18:02

Just put in 50% and when he queries it etc just say "it's all I can afford". Perhaps not this month but for now whilst you gather information and make decisions.

I can't believe he will want the mortgage defaulted on anymore than you.

This could escalate nastily quickly. You need to start taking photos of all his collection - the titles. It is worth ££££££ and it's a marital asset.

I would wait until you know he is going to be out for the day working and double back home take a sicky etc. I would either document everything or take the collection to a storage space.

It does seem that he is planning to end the marriage when it's the right time for him or just carry on controlling you so he has tonnes of money to do as he pleases.

Have you ran a credit check on both your names, see if he's built up debts?

oil0W0lio · 16/03/2021 18:08

I actually can’t believe I have been such a fool
now it's time to use the fool to your own advantage...ie let him think you still are one, that way it'll be easy to out maneuver him

Questions99 · 16/03/2021 18:12

I have screenshot everything I can find. And have photos of a lot of the collection but most of it is boxed so it extremely difficult to do that a) because I rarely alone for more than 30 mins and b) because he might notice.
And this is exactly why it’s HIS. He may argue it’s “ours” technically (when he’s trying to reassure me when complaining he’s siphoning off our savings for his own indulgence) but I don’t know what is what with what he has.

The cash is exactly where I found it. It’s true he does sometimes get paid in cash but this is really odd. The collection is all being paid online. I’m genuinely scared to ask him. As much as I like the idea of taking it, leaving a cheeky bite and paying it in for bills or the savings for that matter, I’m scared to touch it, I don’t know where it’s from (literally) and if he freaks.. I’m trying to keep some peace and normality for the kids. They’re my absolute number one priority.
I know me being sick with worry isn’t good for them either.
I spoke to Women’s Aid. She said his behaviour is “criminal” and at first I thought she meant as a turn of phrase. But she said the law now provides for economic abuse. She said there’s an awful lot that’s wrong and sent me two solicitors (females) that she said they’ve heard good things about.
I have planned to meet a friend for a walk tomorrow afternoon. I’ve taken the afternoon off work, and not told him. I will leave early and can safely call the solicitors from the car and see what they advise.
I’m now thinking to write a letter which I either read out to him or leave for him to read and then go out for an hour or so. I’m not sure what’s best.
I just know I want to be clear with him my conditions - including full honesty, a dead stop to the collecting or he gets counselling if he can’t stop, 50-50 with immediate effect, marital counselling and separate rooms. We don’t have a spare room but I can move my little office to our bedroom and he can buy himself a bed and be in there.
I need emotional and financial separation... depending on his response will be the answer to whether it leads to full separation and divorce.
Part of me wants to rip the plaster off but I keep seeing the kids faces and know I need to be extraordinarily patient and take it step by step.
Thursday is the day both kids are out, so it looks to be the best opportunity this side of pay day to tell him I’m putting 50% in. And I wonder if I just leave it at that. A PP said to keep my powder dry and that made a lot of sense. Out finances are so entwined that it will be messy no matter what and if my ultimate goal is financial steadiness and security for me and the kids, his co-operation could go a long way.
Maybe I’m still in a deluded fog. Your thoughts are really helpful. I have not know what’s real and what’s not for so long.. I need perspective above all else right now.
Ps. He’s suddenly bought me two gifts including flowers and tidied the house today... making a point or trying to absolve his conscience? Or perhaps he suspects I’m about to do what I’m about to do with the joint account.

Because we’ve not been out much at all, there’s a bit extra in there, so I could in fact pay in a lot less and tell him I’ll just top it up as we go. I genuinely think he will explode at me.

OP posts:
Questions99 · 16/03/2021 18:13

He’s self employed so he could easily work whilst our youngest is in school. I do and I’m at home permanently now. He has literally run out of time to call himself the primary caregiver or a stay at home parent. He’s told me work is for chumps. He is very happy to not work...

OP posts:
MrsBobDylan · 16/03/2021 18:14

Jesus just kick him out op. He has taken you for a ride for the last 20 years, don't him him the next 20 to fuck you over too.

Questions99 · 16/03/2021 18:16

I’d not thought of a credit check. Is it possible to do that without him knowing?

When I logged into eBay to check his purchases it bloody text him to say there’s been a log on from another device. He was fuming that his “wife is snooping” on him.

OP posts:
wewereliars · 16/03/2021 18:17

Don't confront him, there is nothing to be gained. Get legal advice, don't warn him, divorce him

Questions99 · 16/03/2021 18:19

Yes I think that’s in my favour right now. I used to fall to bits if we argued. But I feel very calm and collected. I’m managing to do my job well, put a brave face on (though I’m spending a LOT of time hiding in the loo)

I want to make sure I’m doing everything I need to do practically to prepare.

OP posts:
oil0W0lio · 16/03/2021 18:21

I’m now thinking to write a letter which I either read out to him or leave for him to read and then go out for an hour or so
you know that he will just experience this as you slapping him in the face and laughing at him...right?
This will just make him furious and he will refuse to co-operate with you, infact he will happily make things worse for himself in order to spite you, this man is lazy selfish and entitled, and regards you as his dogsbody, telling him exactly what you think of him will not improve him

Questions99 · 16/03/2021 18:21

He’s never out for more than half an hour. Literally. He does the grocery shop several times a week instead of a large one. He drops DC at school which takes 15 minutes. I don’t have time literally to photograph it all and can’t disturb it (over 200 boxes of stuff guessing). Removing it I think could set him off.

OP posts:
cerseii · 16/03/2021 18:21

Yeah, I agree. Fuck the confrontation, don’t have it out with him. You know he’s violent and scary. There is nothing to be gained.

He is essentially rinsing out your money on foolishness and doesn’t see an issue. He also thinks your job is “poxy” and worthless, which somehow justifies him wasting your money.

Just go straight to issuing the divorce proceedings and moving out. This cannot be resolved.

Your children need your money to survive, you cannot let him spend another penny on “collectibles”

oil0W0lio · 16/03/2021 18:22

He’s told me work is for chumps
what he's telling you here is that YOU are a chump, that's how he sees you

Questions99 · 16/03/2021 18:23

I hadn’t though of it like that. I just want a way to as briefly as I can make my point and what I am asking him to do. And leave it with him to mull over. Or stay and be there if he wants to talk. Our communication is so broken, I’d fully expect him to just walk away. To the lounge, his phone and the TV.

OP posts:
cerseii · 16/03/2021 18:23

You really need a solicitor

In fact, don’t even talk to him without speaking to a solicitor first

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